RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (Full Version)

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The Hollow Soul -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:17:22)

@VJ, the point I think he's making is that the hero, while good, has had a brush with getting evil or dark things due to power or the forces of evil twisting our minds.
If the argument that the hero is 100% good, no if ands or buts about it were the case, he wouldn't have a Doom Weapon, he would avoid the dark arts like Necromancer and Death Knight, and he would have destroyed the MS cloak scrap instead of allowing it to stay in the wild.


Fleshweaver would fit the bill of something dark that the hero has the choice to do, but doesn't make them straight up evil as we know nothing about how the hero has to devour Aegis other than he has to. Tomix hasn't given enough information on this class to fully judge it in the story yet.



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:17:29)

@VJ

Having the class in AQW doesn't overlook the fact that people want it in DF.

Staff have the power to say something at one point and change their mind as they please. The create the game so ultimately they can say or do whatever they want.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:21:58)

lol
Doom is a tricky subject to talk about and yet you are trying to side step what is going on here.
By the way doom is seen as 'Dark' element nice try.

It is along the same lines as the Death Knight, Necro, & Grim Reaper.

Pandora's weapons are evil.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:23:32)

*sigh*



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:24:11)

@VJ

Pandora's weapons are only evil in the sense that they represent misfortune, which translates as evil.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:27:43)

at above
I was talking about element as listed on the weapon

yeah people who play aqw.
I ran across the list and seen it is aqw players that want it.

so far all the ones I have seen against it are DF players.

I do believe that does mean something and not trying to cause strife among DF & aqw players just it is something I had noticed and thought it should have been brought to everyone's attention as we all know in aqw players get a choice between good & evil which here in DF there isn't one and would explain why there never has been such a class ether.

and there is a reason for that.
the player has never and will never be given such an option as the Hero is and shall always be good no ifs ands or buts.

which was why I was surprised that Tomix was even willing to make such a class regardless of the amount of supporters for it.



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:32:04)

I don't even know what to say anymore.

@VJ

Tomix or Ash (I can't remember which one) stated that Good and Evil are not elements, but in fact states of mind. DF is primarily about going around and killing other things, which in its nature can be considered evil. What do you think happens when you kill a monster in battle? This isn't like Pokemon where they feint and go to the Pokemon Center. They die and they're souls go to Death for judgement.

The community has clearly expressed their opinion on this class. The majority of forum users, who indeed only make up a small percentage of the population, want it. Despite the fact that this community only represents a sample of the census, it displays a better idea of how the entire population would react.

I don't know why your surprised by Tomix's decision. His NPC died in the finale, which was something that bother a lot more people than this.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:32:33)

good with evil/dark abilities like necromancer deathknight SROD (and the other doom weapons) the cloak scrap (that we keep and that was a no no) every EVIL elemental weapon


also xan was evil and his element was fire Sek Duat who had light etc etc the list goes on and on sooo element means nothing when it comes to alignment.



Break Eventide -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:42:16)

I feel like adding my own two cents to this discussion, so please excuse an old lurker. While I find the whole concept of a Fleshweaver class interesting, I can't say I'd agree with its implementation. Also, you should be careful talking about "majority" when the forum members themselves make up a small percentage of the whole playerbase. Thus, it's very difficult to say the "majority" wants something when the majority is, in fact, silent.

Onto the matter of the class itself, I find Fleshweaver to be incredibly out of character for the fairly well-established hero, as others have said. Need I remind you about our reaction to the forbidden magics that Aspar used against us? Furthermore, I feel like it would detract from us in the fact that it would take up Tomix's time, which is a precious resource for releases, for the Paladin class art and Chaosweaver, and more. Not only Tomix's, either, as Ash would likely have to code in the new class, which takes up time he could be using to make other changes that he deems beneficial to us. Though I greatly dislike denying anyone an option, I feel like Fleshweaver is not worth what it would take up, and what it would mean for the character to have the ability to make that choice in the first place.

However, I am GREATLY excited by the SoulSmith system. I always liked the Blacksmithing game, even though I maxed it long, long ago. While I would've liked it as a class, I can see the reasoning as to why it is not a class of its own. One, while the usage is different, the vibe would likely be too close to the existing Soulweaver. Two, SoulSmithing something seems like it would be a time-intensive process that would be treated with the utmost respect, not a "Sacred Blacksmith" style creation and destruction of disposable magical weapons. All in all, I can't WAIT to see what Tomix has in mind for this one.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:44:01)

^ i believe he meant vocal majority on these topics. i also believe that the class would more than likely be added near the end of this saga and we have just scratched the surface of it.



The Hollow Soul -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:45:32)

While I do agree about the "Tomix time factor" side of things, I doubt Tomix would have offered the idea of putting the class in game if he thought it would take away from other classes, the main release, and his well-being.
He wants to make the players happy, not overwork himself!

This class would also probably be a long term down the road project for him if he decides to do it. Not something that'd be pushed to the front of the list.



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:48:53)

Tomix stated, and I quote: "Fleshweavers are not about using forbidden magic here and there". Whatever you see Roirr doing does not fully represent what we would do as a Fleshweaver.



Dragonknight315 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:53:34)

You know, part of the reason why FleshWeavers, at least what we have seen of them so far, seem chaotic and forbidden like is because it ate the Soul Alley of a Chaos Weaver. Imagine what would happen if it ate other spirits? Again, I'd much rather not have to eat Aegis to find out, and I am HIGHLY against the class, but I am somewhat curious as to what happens when a FleshWeaver devours other spirits.



Break Eventide -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:55:22)

Chris, what I mean by that reference is that this was his reaction to someone killing a complete stranger. Would that same character consume a friend for the sake of power, when he found a magic that sacrificed others to be so sickening? I really, truly doubt it. That's not the hero's established personality even with the darker trends that the story's been taking. Fleshweaving itself is not a forbidden magic, but it would require him sacrificing one of his closest friends and constant companion just to use a power that he doesn't even need.

I also believe that Tomix was hoping, somewhat, that we would find the idea more deplorable than the reaction that he got. I have no doubt that if he feels a clear majority want the option, that he would implement it, as he's always cared for the opinions and ideas of players. "When?" is a good question to ask. Long-term is growing in length. The original plan for Chaosweaver was for it to be released soon after Ravenloss Book 3, after all. However, AoT has taken precedence over that, and there is absolutely no ETA now. I just feel like tacking another class to make onto the end of that list isn't fair to him or to Ash. (Also, given that we can play as Roirr whenever, you can be a Fleshweaver all you want in his quests. I feel like that's a strong enough taste without making the staff work harder for it.)

These are, however, just my thoughts and opinions. I will not argue with you, as you have your own, and we all have our right to them. At the end of the day, this is Tomix's decision, after all.



LouisCyphere -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:56:04)

I'm not sure if we should add a debate or discussion as part of the thread title. DF, at its core, is still a single player role-playing game. We are given choices on how we want to tackle the story/game. Its like one of those make-your-own-adventure books where you would turn to a different page to see the outcome of your choices. Regardless of which side you are on, we should be given more options.



W.A.R.Z. -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:57:29)

@VJ Do you have a Doom weapon? Because Doom weapons are evil.
quote:

Can you purify a doom weapon after a certain point? No you cannot. After a certain point you can only destroy them, there is no purification because the darkness utterly corrupts its vessel.
And it does affect you.
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkLore

I thought so Geo. But still... are we really just that epic to not be tempted by the weapons. The descriptions even hint at them causing madness/affecting us.
Who said you haven't?

So I'd say that if the hero was such a goody-two-shoes then he wouldn't have a Doom weapon.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:58:45)

at the end of the day im for more options to choose from then forsaking a cool possibility.



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:58:49)

The one thing that I would like to know about other people is why do you care about the decision I make? My decision will not affect you, just like your decision will not affect me.



Break Eventide -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 22:59:48)

Except, Louis, that in order to give us more options, we would get less content in exchange, due to the harsh truth that time is a factor. Thus, in this case, I feel like it is for the best that we all follow down the same path. That is, the path chosen and given life by the writers, the story that they want to share with us. Honestly, the moral issue, while a pressing point as to the continuation of the story, is of secondary concern to me in comparison to the time it would take, and what would, inevitably, have to be paused or given up in exchange. Time is such a cruel thing, isn't it?



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 23:00:08)

@Break Eventide
I agree those that don't want it have remained silent or maybe hasn't have the chance to or unwilling to say anything.

though to those who keep barking about how do I have the right what to deice what is the best for the game.
so I ask you guys what right do YOU have to deice what is best for everyone?



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 23:01:44)

VJ
DONT EAT HIM THEN we keep saying it over and over and over and over and over!!

if tomix decides to just not do it i wont even be upset, i am however tired of being told whats good for me because what i like is a no no.



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 23:06:05)

@VJ

Oh trust me, the dogs on your side of the wall have been barking just as loudly as we have.

I want to say this in the nicest possible way. It seems like you are either trolling, or unawarely posting redundant comments. No one wants to conform to someone else's opinion.

__________________________________________


I would also like to state that I am not "mini-modding". I am simply stating things so we can avoid repetition.



LouisCyphere -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 23:07:06)

@Break Eventide
That was one of my concern regarding the class in one of my post. But I'm sure the staff wouldn't release a half-baked content. So time isn't really an issue if we can wait.

@VJ
With all due to respect, how are you different from those people that you antagonize if are also doing the same thing.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 23:10:49)

nope, only have Destiny weapons.

just finished cleansing the rod

@ Christophisis
i see those posting the list as trolling or rubbing it in the faces of those of us who are against it.

@ LouisCyphere
hmm you have a good point as both sides are doing the same thing.

in the end it all comes down to what a staff member said and what Tomix take is on it all.

"Dragon Fable the Hero has always meant to be good which is why there will never be a choice to do so"
as I said before that was in thread about different races and options to pick evil for something.

it is as black and white as that.

had I remembered the staff's name I still would have said who it was so they could clear it up even better.



flashbang -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/4/2015 23:12:39)

@W.A.R.Z. What did you do to your quotes?



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