RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (Full Version)

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ShadowMoon -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/17/2015 1:31:41)

@Drop_Bear "let's sacrifice small children to save the world!"
oh, wait we already had two other people do that for us.



Chaoshaper -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/17/2015 1:38:27)

To be fair, becoming a fleshweaver isn't equal to opening the only gate to stop a potentially world destroying enemy from achieving his final goal. Its like comparing not getting the cereal you wanted to being starved at a POW camp.


I still feel like we should wait until the reworks are done and see if the staff can actually fit making this class into their schedule before arguing whether we want it or not. They are kind of swamped at the moment what with a few reworks in progress.

people seem to think that the armor will be more than worth 3 potential armors, and others who can't stand watching other people eat burgers while they eat their salad. I want more information on the class, if it comes out, to see if it will be worth creating before i actually take a stand on whether i want the actual armor or not.

wow, Im horrible at analogies.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/17/2015 2:08:24)

^ actually i like the burger and salad analogy.



monstervet -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/17/2015 20:23:52)

i feel Vegan/Carnivore is a better example.

Its true the hero has swayed into more of a vegetarian stage, however this would be his first taste of FLESH hehehe, some wonder if this is the beginning others want to remain pure to the ideal that the hero wont cross a certain line.

The staff has been very accommodating by included the option to have this choice, previously they were very firm, the hero is a good guy, whenever a villain gave us a choice, choosing the "wrong" one would be a "Game Over" followed with another chance to choose the right answer.
Yeah im not a fan and i dont know if this would "divide" things you know? a vegetarian section/carnivore section?

However its up to the staff, they can make it "work" this is the DF staff they can make a loophole if they wish they can make anything make sense with some tea, magic socks and leftover pocket lint.
Hopefully this will be a great way to see what general direction would be best for DF or future possible choices, i honestly dont care if choosing Fleshweaver creates "character development" (what development would it be? now your willing to sacrifice friends for power, or the greater "good"?) in my opinion thats not the direction i want my character, anti hero? unless you have a back story like Galanoth i doubt Fleshweaver will make you antihero, maybe LESS of a hero, but not Antihero.



Meloette Wells -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/19/2015 16:38:43)

Refering to pg22, I saw something mentioning Transcendence, a weapon used by... Vaal. (correct me if I'm wrong) A weapon that was suggested to be made with soulsmithing on the same page, and that Chaosweavers (like Vaal, again I may be mistaken) are friends with souls, but don't have soul allies. If Rorrir ate the spirit made into Transcendence, and was able to wield the weapon afterwards... I suggest that consuming the soulally, Aegis, would result in a permanent fusion with Aegis, at the cost of having to consume Aegis. Which, as we see in the later half of the Soul Sync skill of SW, can offer a powerful fusion between living being and spirits. As if, as suggested before, consuming him will be flesh weaving with the spirit within your flesh



Magyarka -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/19/2015 17:06:06)

If you guys want to be fleshweavers for the power, I raise you the fact that YOU HAVE A DRAGON! If this class ever gets made, the choice should really only be if you want your hero to be... not that much of a hero.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/19/2015 19:06:08)

^ i have doomknight i dont want this for power (cool dark themed animation is a factor though XD) im doing this for that possible rare monkey wrench into the norm to spice up our character and to give us a slight choice with his/her decisions if only for one time.



Rio3678 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/20/2015 9:03:27)

quote:

If you guys want to be fleshweavers for the power, I raise you the fact that YOU HAVE A DRAGON!
.

I've stated before that it's the collector in me that wants the fleshweaver.



W.A.R.Z. -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/20/2015 16:06:38)

@Magyarka Who says he wouldn't be a hero anymore?
Here are the definitions from the internet for hero, the ones that show how he follows the definition are in blue, the ones that show how he doesn't follow are in red, and the ones that are ambiguous or could be argued for are in green.

quote:

1.a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities. No (Eating Aegis wouldn't be noble)

2.a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal:
He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child. An argument could be made for this one.

3.the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc. Of course!

4.Classical Mythology.
a) a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity. No (Not godlike)
b) (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability. No (Chieftain is a leader, so no)
c) (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod. No (Not immortal)

5.hero sandwich. Maybe? (FleshWeavers might have control over lunchmeat for all you know!)

6.the bread or roll used in making a hero sandwich. No (He isn't any form of bread or roll)


Ruling out the classical mythology which would never describe him and the sandwich ones, that leaves you with it being an even split between him being a hero after and him not, with the third one being debatable.
Really the only thing that would stop him from being considered a hero is other peoples opinions.



Drop_Bear -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/20/2015 21:42:19)

@Rio3678, The collector in me does not want fleshweaver as I would have to lose another class, while if they spent that time on a different class I could have both ;).

@W.A.R.Z. other peoples opinions are what makes someone a hero, so whether eating Aegis is heroic or not, peoples opinions are all that matter and I suppose we would stop being a hero to the soulweavers and by extension everyone who they associate with as they would think its horrible. Your average John Doe the farmer? They would probably not care as they would not really care about spirits, if they even knew what they are. What a lot of people have been saying (my interpretation) is not that we would stop being a hero (even if we lose a few supporters) but that it clashes with our hero's personality. That the act of eating Aegis doesn't fit with what our characters have seen us do throughout storylines.

Either way, I imagine that this isn't such a big deal as people expect except for maybe solidifying a lack of Aegis's presence in future storylines. The only difference it will probably make is a line in Roirr's dialogue and maybe a line in a soulweaver or two's dialogue but other than that I doubt much would change as with the end of the Tomix saga's Aegis probably will fade into obscurity either way. I would be happy to be proven wrong on this count but it seems likely.



Rio3678 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/21/2015 9:21:43)

@W.A.R.Z. Now I want a sandwich.



Starstruck91 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/21/2015 12:45:11)

From a gameplay standpoint I don't think Fleshweaver is worth the price it asks of the player. Nor would I sacrifice Aegis even if it was, simply because he and my hero has been through so much together, but as a roleplayer looking at it objectively I can definitely see the appeal in the nitty-gritty fall from grace scenario that is Fleshweaver.

I think we can all agree that, although the hero can at times be likened to a walking disaster, he or she (it?) is a pretty stand-up guy, gal, person... but then, so were many of their greatest foes. I believe the names Alexander, Konnan, and Valen Pulchure ought to ring some bells. Which brings up my next point, any rogue who's unlocked cryptic knows the hero beats themself up pretty bad over their failures, the fire war especially. I could totally see a Soulweaver hero consuming their SoulAlly in a bid to boost their powers so something like that would never happen again, a very self-destructive and contradictory path to be sure but then, thats the point isn't it? A desperate need for more power can twist any individuals ideals, and power achieved through evil means tends to further corrupt the wielder.



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/22/2015 19:06:00)

FOR THE 99999999999999th TIME!!!!!

You can choose whether or not to eat Aegis! You decision does not affect anyone else. The purpose of this thread was to discuss the Fleshweaver and Soulsmith class. Not whether or not you will eat Aegis.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/22/2015 19:45:01)

im down for talking about FW skills and possible animation. lots of red strands id imagine



Starstruck91 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/22/2015 21:04:12)

Kind of difficult to discuss a class, or classes, that hasn't been released for testing yet. Hence why most people replying are instead debating aspects of the class not related to actual gameplay. :P



Rayen -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/23/2015 12:13:35)

@Christophisis. Well, actually...to quote what you said to open the original thread...
quote:

My question is, how would you all feel about these other two weaver types getting their own class?

...the purpose of the thread is actually to discuss how people would feel (hence all the heated feels'ing that we've had) about the possibility of the two remaining weaving families getting their own class.

If some people think that eating Aegis is something they wouldn't do, and doing so would be a requirement of the FW class, then...it has everything to do with this thread.

Additionally, it's important to acknowledge that neither a FW or SS class have been confirmed, so any discussion of the classes would be purely speculation and would likely diverge to 'suggestions' (and iirc you aren't supposed to make suggestions in a discussion thread).



flashbang -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/23/2015 13:24:34)

IIRC, Tomix confirmed Soulsmithing would not be a class.



GreenGuy23 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/23/2015 13:32:16)

@Aven Tomix said that SS would be an upgrade to Blacksmithing instead of a class.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/24/2015 3:34:23)

Honestly, I've been thinking about it a bit.... and when you think about it, ALL Weaving is a evil magic. I mean think on it:

Soulweaving: You take the SOUL of your enemy and use it to strike.
Chaosweaving: Same but with corrupted spirits.
Soulsmithing: You are forcing/or even if not forcing still putting) a living being into a weapon.
Fleshweaving: We've had this discussion.

And let us not forget the ORIGIN of both Weaving and it's spirit's in the first place.

...In fact, the entire continent it comes from screams creepy and forbidden from what little we have seen. 0-0



Chaoshaper -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/24/2015 4:07:25)

Just my take on this, feel free to correct/argue as you see fit

Soulweaving isn't all evil. You can decide to purify corrupted souls, create a bond with and learn more about Soul allies, or you could rip out that random strangers soul. Soulweaving is as evil as the person doing the weaving is, like Necromancy. Also like Necromancy, the art isn't evil so much as it just has dark roots.

Chaosweaving.... I guess could be evil? The only Chaosweavers we've met have been corrupted by some kinda curse, according to book 1. Does Tomix count as a Chaosweaver due to his bonding with a Corrupt Spirit Ally, or was the disguise good enough that he was still a Soulweaver? Was Pandora a Corrupt Spirit?

Soulsmithing is probably more about your Spirit Ally bonding with your items like Aegis bonds with us in Soulsynch, just more stable in terms of duration and damage than a full on soulsynch is.

Yeah, we've discussed Fleshweaving.



Starstruck91 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/24/2015 5:29:02)

Pandora is a pure spirit, though not through her own actions as she was a terrible person in life. Had she died a natural death she'd probably have become a corrupt spirit, but she was inadvertantly purified when Envy ripped her soul apart to create the other sin spirits.



ergotth -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/24/2015 20:02:17)

actualy the concept is different. Soul Weaving is weaving with threads made of soul energy provided by your soul ally. The manipulation of Soul extends to minor things such as damage, healing, joining/splitting foreign things with someone else's soul (like splitting the darkness orb from Valey's soul). Soul Smithing would be using this soul threads on weanponry.

ANd I think the idea of corrupt spirit might diverge, Pandora is a corrupt spirit, but she is not evil at all. A corrupt spirit can experience repentance and be...less evil. So a chaosweaver can be a hero as long as he can keep his corrupted spirit following him towards good deeds.



W.A.R.Z. -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/24/2015 20:31:41)

Maybe we could be an anti-hero like Zero from the Mega Man games? We could still have the same actions apart from eating Aegis, but we would just have different motives.

I was going to include a direct quote from Zero here, but decided against it because of spoilers. If you want to see it click here and its the second one.



ergotth -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/24/2015 20:41:43)

I dont know, consuming Aegis still looks like something unthinkable for our hero's standarts. As much s RPG allows you to do your own actions to some sort, our hero in DF still have a VERY dinstinct personality on his/her own.



Solargeo -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 9:41:25)

quote:

Maybe we could be an anti-hero like Zero from the Mega Man games? We could still have the same actions apart from eating Aegis, but we would just have different motives.

I was going to include a direct quote from Zero here, but decided against it because of spoilers. If you want to see it click here and its the second one.

The Avid Megaman fan in me has to point out zero would be classified as a hero. His origins is of a somewhat evil villain. He did A lot of good in the maverick hunters. A lot of it.
And fast forward a few hundred years of him being in stasis. He gets awakened early and loses his memories. He still does good by helping the world become more or less peaceful.
He protected someone who helped solve at the time of his reawakening a energy crisis. Even After well lets fast forward . When he is a bio-metal he remember a lot I believe, or is implied.
He helped save the world two more times as a bio metal. so in total I say he helped save it about 7 times. Not sure on the exact number. He never worked for a villain.



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