RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (Full Version)

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Deviance -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 10:15:17)

Okay, say we eat Aegis. We only take on the attributes he possesses, ie, how Roirr got Transcendance. That means we get Aegis' sheild and armor, if these observations are correct, along with his ice powers. That seems like the most logical way Fleshweaver would exist. Im thinking the Soul Ally Synchronization, but forever, and no more Aegis. Honestly, I'm not exactly interested in this power cuz Aegis is defensive by nature (He's a SHIELD, and his name literally means SHIELD). Thus, this Fleshweaver class would likely be a defensive one, destroying ppls' dreams of a powerhouse.

quote:

If you guys want to be fleshweavers for the power, I raise you the fact that YOU HAVE A DRAGON!


And just to comment on this, yes we have a dragon, but its not unlimited awe-inspiring power that can be used anytime, anywhere... cuz thats overkill.



Mystical Warrior -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 10:40:52)

@above That actually makes sense, if a Fleshweaver's power is based upon the SoulAlly they consumed, then the class will most likely be ice and defensive in nature, rather than being a powerhouse. If this were really to happen that will certainly make the Fleshweaver fans to actually think more carefully if they want a defensive class



W.A.R.Z. -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 14:15:30)

@SolarGeo Here's the quote I was talking about:
quote:

"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero... I have always only fought for the people I believe in. I won't hesitate... If an enemy appears in front of me, I will destroy it!"
¯Zero, Mega Man Zero 4


Here's a quote from that same TV Tropes page:
quote:

In one definition of the word, the appeal of an antihero is that he or she is often very literally a hero: Namely; he or she does heroic deeds. But whereas Superman, Wonder Woman, Hercules, and many other conventional heroes have both the physical and moral capabilities to do it, an antihero almost never has both.

What I mean by us being an anti-hero is that we still have heroic actions, but we would be willing to do something "immoral" if it would help more people.

Link removed as TVTropes links are not allowed on the forums. ~Gingkage



Chaoshaper -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 15:23:10)

I doubt our goodie-two-shoes hero would become an antihero. Even now, while we're fighting a government organization, we are still risking everything just to save individual people because what the Rose is doing is immoral, albeit being done for the better good. Huh, what the Rose is doing sounds kinda familiar, huh W.A.R.Z.? *hinthintwinkwinknudgenudge*pointstoabovepost*

Some more technical problems i have with the locking of classes.
Wait, would FW lock items made through SS? or could people just make what they want using SS before converting into FW?

If someone had one of the other weaving classes saved and then unlocked FW, what would happen to their saved class?



Starstruck91 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 17:01:43)

^I wouldn't be so sure about that, they've been through a lot. Ancient gods messing with their sanity and doom weapons staining their souls in darkness. I'm not saying they'd turn evil or anything but such things tend to leave a mark y'know? The players imagination doesn't necessarily need to be limited by the script, the various classes in the game is one way to channel the sort of hero you want your character to be, that is why we have "evil" classes like necromancer, deathknight and doomknight available to us and not just the goody-goody classes. :P



Chaoshaper -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 17:20:24)

But its already been noted that Necromancer and Deathknight are dark, not evil(See Vayle and the Deathknight twins from the locker for proof) and DoomKnight is non-canon, which means lore-wise, we don't have it.

The only item that does leave its mark that we have in game are Doom Weapons, but for know, they aren't evil so much as they are hungry. Even Caitiff is just bound to it's creator, not evil in itself.



Starstruck91 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 18:08:48)

Yeah but antiheroes by definition aren't evil, they're heroes like any other. Only their methods are dark and some times even brutal. They aren't afraid to get their hands dirty and as a result they tend to get stuff done more efficiently.

The most obvious comparison is Paladin and Deathknight, hero and antihero, they are polar opposites of one another and yet ultimately the result is the same.

FleshWeaver is different though, Necromancer and Deathknight can be justified as darker paths to the power you need to protect the innocent. To turn the enemy's weapons against themselves, but in consuming Aegis you can't really make that claim any more since you just destroyed one of those innocent souls you're supposed to protect, that makes it power for the sake of power itself, which almost always ends with the wielder ultimately turning into a villain.

Profanity removed. Censored or not, please refrain from using inappropriate language. If you're going to post please keep it civil and constructive.
For more information, please read the =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules > Posting Behavior.~Elryn



Chaoshaper -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 18:45:48)

Sounds familiar. *Glances back at my previous comment about the Rose.

Seriously though, unless the staff decide to change the personality of the Hero, we aren't gonna have an Antihero as our main character. That role is better filled by a rival villain turned hero/hero turned villainous that we don't get to use/control. Assuming that Riorr actually traveled through just space and hasn't jumped through time, this story arc takes place during the Rose saga, where our hero is a member of the resistance against the Rose, but we understand that there are good Rose members (Amityvale saga). Our hero, as of right now, has no reason to turn on his moral compass, and probably won't for the remainder of the story.



lightriftwalker122 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 21:23:01)

I think we would get only Aegis strengh not his weapon or skills or element. i think it will be a offensive Class not defensive. we might become a antihero if what happend at senerity before the storm happens again or something bad happens in either the Blood and Roses storyline or Espina Rosa



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/27/2015 23:43:15)

I'm hungry and craving..... an Ice Soul. It's like Ice Cream, but so much tastier >:D



ergotth -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 3:50:29)

"A soul itself has no taste in particular, but the feeling of it going down your throat is indescribable"
-Soul Eater Evans -



monstervet -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 3:52:08)

I dont mind really not anymore, the only thing i mind is all this SUGAR coating you could cover it in caramel over cotton candy a 100 times until you had an 85 Lb ball of Sugar, it wouldnt change nothin.

So given what we know, would becoming a fleshweaver make us look Murk "like"?

Roirr is the only other fleshweaver we know of and he is well, evil, sacrificing Aegis for power, in this case devouring him is also ....questionable. At best it is morally dubious, at worst it is evil. Period.

I know that the staff can make a compelling quest/cutscene where Aegis may shove himself on our throats in order to save us or vanquish some evil or what have you, i know they can do that, however its been said very often, it is a choice.

That goes both ways, yes you can choose NOT to devour Aegis, however no matter how touching, or in what manner Aegis sacrifices himself, you can not sugar coat that one little point if you chose to devour Aegis, YOU CHOSE THIS.

I get that people may want to be antihero but devouring Aegis isnt antihero, its that little opening a window towards evil, people may call it character "development" but if anything your undoing yourself, choosing to stray from the heroes path we followed all these years.

I get that its personal choice, i've accepted that from the beginning, but i really wish people wouldnt sugar coat it, devouring Aegis is evil, it seems that the main reason people want Fleshweaver is to evil roleplay, which in my opinion is very unlike DF. If you really, really want to roleplay evil i think this isnt the best game to do that.

Perhaps the desire to walk in Roirrs shoes says a lot about a person individually.
"What better way to dream than to walk in the shoes of those to whom we aspire." ~ Boxtrolls

Everyone has their opinions and beliefs, we still dont know if it will happen or not.



Meloette Wells -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 8:46:23)

@above
Apologies for adding a bit of more sugar but, the deathknight was originally cursed to be one. Yes, the hero learned the skills but they are still dark magic and, RIPPING SOULS FROM THE AFTERLIFE to use as minions in battle isn't heroic for, you ARE stealing souls from a hopefully peaceful enternity. Poor innocent souls that have passed on.

The real spike for Flesh weaver is that THIS SOUL WE ARE EATTING is a friend. This soul have a face. If you truly believe that Flesh weaver is truly immoral then, what of the arts of necromancy? Are we gonna allow countless unknown souls to be used as tools when we won't even eat just one we DO know?

Edit:

My argument here is that Fleshweaver is just another Dark Art requiring someone else's dead soul to obtain access to it



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 9:59:25)

You know the more I read and think about it, I have to agree that it should be only defensive only as that was what Aegis seems to actually be.
I think that would defiantly make people think long and hard.




W.A.R.Z. -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 10:11:55)

Something I just realized was that the undead we summon with Necromancer don't talk. Here's a quote from Moonridge.
quote:

Necro: I’m going into town to buy some spell components. Now, you guys stay here, okay?
Chomper: AWWWWW, man!
Soup: Hey, come on! You never let us go into town.
Necro: ...
Necro: You’re undead. The knights would slay you.
Soup: Oh, right.
Chomper: Can’t you use some sort of cool spell that makes us look human?
Necro: Yes.
Soup: So...why don’t you use it?
Necro: I travel with you two everywhere I go. I want at least some time to myself. Gosh, I can’t even hear myself think sometimes.
Soup: ...
Necro: Don’t gimme that look. At least you get to be ‘not dead’. You’re lucky I let you use words, you know the rules.
Chomper: Yeah, I’m really glad I don’t have to do that ‘AroooOooo’ thing. It’s just weird.
Soup: We have no lips. What do you expect?
Chomper: It just...it kinda takes away from our dignity.
Soup: WE’RE UNDEAD! We have no dignity! We don’t even have real names!
Soup: Honestly...SOUP?! Why on earth would you name me that?
Necro: I like soup.
Soup: ...of course.
Necro: I named him Chomper because he tried to bite my toes off.
Soup: ???
Chomper: It’s true.
Soup: ...Why?!
Chomper: I...I was bored.
Soup: Yeah...of course you have dignity. What was I thinking.

The important part here is that even though they were forced into undeath they still get to speak, but the undead we summon don't even get that!
So some random Necromancer you can see on your journey is nicer to his undead than you are which makes you think, can Necromancer really be considered anything but evil?



The Jop -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 10:41:01)

They're not really around long enough to say anything, we just summon them for single attacks with Necromancer. Forcing souls into dead bodies to work for you is usually evil though.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 10:45:19)

@W.A.R.Z

You are grasping at straw my friend as that have nothing to do with the topic at hand as we are not evil.
besides for all we know ether A: they don't want to talk because they are annoyed with us or B: they talk all the want elsewhere or at 'home'.

after all we don't know if they actually live with us or still in the underworld playing poker or something.

after all our Dragon never talks while they are travailing with us as a pet or as a 'guest' so does that make us evil because our dragon doesn't talk?

though I must admit I wish we could summon a skeleton and give him a name.



Mystical Warrior -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 11:17:02)

quote:

I think we would get only Aegis strengh not his weapon or skills or element. i think it will be a offensive Class not defensive. we might become a antihero if what happend at senerity before the storm happens again or something bad happens in either the Blood and Roses storyline or Espina Rosa

Lol I knew this kind of posts will emerge the moment a sensible argument was made for Fleshweaver being defensive when we do take in Aegis' properties of Ice and Defensive nature. You have to admit, that what Deviance stated does make alot of sense.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 11:29:01)

@Mystical Warrior

Because they want a 'offensive' class regardless if their soul ally's attributes are defensive and thus would reflect this.




Meloette Wells -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 11:36:39)

What I was saying earlier wasn't meant to be an argument for necromancy being pure evil but, instead as one to say that the hero already is forcing souls to do their bidding, so eating a soul wouldn't be as FAR as a stretch to the hero's "standards" as one may assume. The only true difference is that the soul to be eaten is one we know instead of faceless minion #3

@below

Yes you may be able to make your own back story, you still using a dark art to enslave a soul unwilling (at first unless some agreement prior be made, like with Warz example)

I'm just saying you're still gonna be forcing a soul to do something against their will at one point or another, even if an agreement is made over it afterwards. With Flesh weaver, you are forcing your soul ally, the soul you actually able to get feedback on a and had to to becoming a soulweaver.

The thing here, Flesh weaver seems like the necromancy level of dark art for soul weaving. First having to eat your soul ally to get the power



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 11:43:45)

Remember they allow us to come up with our own back story or other things.
for my Hero its them doing it of their own free will thus not evil.

besides that one necro that conversation w.a.r.z posted clearly show it is not always a negative thing.

so unless stated by individual players and or the staff then it isn't evil.

unlike *murdering your soul ally to gain his power is different.

*they opened the door for this comment



Tomix -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 12:00:36)

All I can say, within the context, you won't be "murdering" Aegis.

I have finally caught up with the discussion, and it is clear that most would like the class.
I'll bring it up again with Geo, and if she gives the class a green light, it will be an optional class.
If you won't like if or won't like the repercussions of it, it WILL be reversible... once.
How, you ask?
I cannot reveal.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 12:12:34)

I guess we need to wait for the context then.[:D]



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 12:25:55)

@Tomix
I must ask if one is eating their friend & soul ally how is it not?



Meloette Wells -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/28/2015 12:40:55)

Well Rorirr forced summoned Vaal's ally and ate her by surprise. Seeing we're the hero, we probably will do it in a more civilized manner and Aegis probably not gonna let him eat him a second time.

(cause necromancy don't force souls at peace into a shell to be a slave, unless it's like a liche being the Necromancer)



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