RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (Full Version)

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Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:33:37)

my argument in on the side of it being a choice one goes one path the other goes the other path. yeah if its just one or the other i can understand why you would be against it and it would suck, id still vote to get it implemented but i would at least understand why you are fighting to get it to be removed.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:33:51)

VJ, to play devil's advocate there, there are plenty of good reasons for BOTH sides. Much as I hate to say it the whole "You do not have to pick the option" part IS valid. There is no right or wrong side here, only differentiating opinions on the matter. WHich is part of the reason I linked that video.[;)]



god of chaos -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:35:10)

^megakyle777. Seems like we will be forced to deal in absolutes this once though. Funny, the new release involves a red lightsaber. Coincidence?



Renn Shadowheart -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:35:40)

@VJ Hold on a sec. About the reference part. Most classes in the game that are considered 'evil' aren't referenced as much. There is no need for another storyline anyways. Necromancer is evil, but the only reference in when some random NPC says 'Well met <Character Class', it could be the same with FleshWeaver, and who knows how we'll devour Aegis? We could be forced, so as I said before, there is no need for a seperate quest thing. Besides, we'll probably get FleshWeaver after the completion of the Vaaloirr Saga, so we won't need Aehis anyways.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:36:17)

GOC,
It will never be to many, I am just surprised no one has started a thing to get wargoth yet for armor(which hopefully never happen).

after all look at their empty arguments, its all about I want, give me, and it will be fun regardless of the time it takes to get everything out and if it pushes weekly releases to two week releases.

@Renn Shadowheart
The Necros aren't always evil.
at the end of the dark orb quest chain the necro(cannot remember her name) said she will teach new necros to help the dead instead of control them.. or something along those lines.
its the same with death knights they are not actualyl evil as you don't have to murder anyone to get them.

@ Kyal
that is still a very weak argument compared to the long list I have.

its never that simple of don't want it don't use it and everyone knows this as stated by many people you included.

Note: just to keep this so no one has to jump back to see it nothing more.

quote:

those who are against have these reasons:
It is immoral
Will take more time to do it
Have to craft extra quest for it
Could have quest lines that need the SoulAlly in it
If there is one than those who are fw would not be happy because they would be left out forcing the team to make another quest line for it or just flat out not give them one.

Development costs: The staff need to take time to draws, animate, code and balance this class. Not too much of a issue in itself. Except that you ALSO have to code in a way to lock out Ageis in all forms, and lock out 3 classes from all access permanantly. Meaning you ALSO need to mess with the Amour Closet and all other ways of saving classes.

Gameplay: Since this class would be canon, you need to make constant refference to it. People would need to be reviled by you. You need to write TWO separate types of story and reactions. If one makes it canon, it has to BE canon and referenced. AND to add to that, there would need to be some kind of boost to the class to compenstate the loss of three, otherwise it's not worth it gameplay wise.

above. That is most of the point here, really. The problem isn't FW. The problem is FW being CANON. The Seppy wannabe classic gets his reward in the form of Doom Knight and other dark classes. They are however not canon and as long as they are liked, even though being an overused concept, using a dark and edgy class that one villain has or is related to , it could very well be made, as pong as again, it is not PART of the story in any way.

1: It's not worst the cost. You are locking off One tier 2 class and 2 Tier 3 Classes, for one tier three class of equal power. In gamepllay terms it makes no sense. You gain no additional power, you in fact LOSE some.

2: CHAOSWEAVER WILL BE (acording to the last news on it) A DC CLASS. THERE is the real issue: you are locking off something people have outright paid for.

The issue comes from locking out classes and options in my opinion. You are not just locking out Soulweaver, you are locking out:

Soulweaver
Master Soulweaver
Chaosweaver
Soulsmith (if it ever comes out)
Locking all four of those options from armor closets and the like
Aeis Book 1 and 3

That's four classes and two allies, (one of which (Chaosweaver) will be DC so if you paid for that first tough luck), for one class. It's too much to lock out.

(thanks to megakyle777 & Lord of Chaos).

I will keep adding good reasons against it which to me counters the number who are for it.
quality of quantity as they say.

and thus far I have yet to see any real strong counter to our reasons behind it why it is a bad Idea.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:36:20)

Which is why Tomix must watch it too. And yes, I just called Tomix a Sith. XD



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:37:43)

VJ we got a wargoth armor its called pyromancer XD i never liked wargoth anyway far to two dimensional.



Aura Knight -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:45:57)

Would the consuming of aegis truly be evil? I see it as more of a permanent synchronization and depending on how much power fleshweaver could give, it might be worth it. Guests slow you down anyway and the attachment we have to aegis seems forced as well.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:48:07)

@Aura
Murder = evil
but thats not the real problem anymore. check the ever growing list as to what other problems there is with this 'class'



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:48:36)

I don't know man, Vaal seemed pretty mad when Rorir did it. I'm thinking it's less "permanent synchronization" and more "Devorering all that they are or could be against their will."



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:50:52)

@kyle
yep and he not only seemed angry he was disgusted by it as well and that is vaal we are talking about who wouldn't have any problems harming others(if not out right killing them).



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:51:38)

VJ that list is not the end all be all thing that the devs are going to look for i think they understand what it would mean and what resources it would require



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:54:57)

that is true however there are still enough of us that don't want it that have given better arguments than fun, give me, don't chose it, ect.

there is also the fact that they would have to cut out all weaving classes which would be part of the price to pay.

and one of the armors are DC only and that could cause legal problems as well.

though if they don't lock chaos then they shouldn't lock any of them or have to make fw DC to prevent that however Tomix said all or nothing so there is more to it that they would have to look at.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 5:58:08)

all or nothing Being canon or not not enforcing a singular choice on all our characters! i really wish tomix would go into detail on what having flesh weaver would actually mean because id bet most on the not side would change their tune if they could choose a side in their own world without having other people make decisions for their characters for them. oh and honestly PEOPLE DONT NEED A REASON other than its fun since ITS A VIDEO GAME!!!! and stop saying give me give me thats silly and a twisted version of people saying that would be cool to have in game.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:00:54)

You know what VJ? I;m gonna play some more devil's advocate now.

Evil RP reasons. Players love to RP as evil chars and this gives them the option.
It's a good way to make players know their decisions have weight.
Allowing Fleshweaver to be a class and adding Soul Smith adds all the weaving families as classes so they are all represented.
THE UNLIMITED POWAH!



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:01:07)

@DLU
he said all or nothing which means locking out all weaving classes. I do believe that was pretty clear in how he said it.

those that found out that it would be canon and no going back at least one went to a no very fast.
I had forgotten still does not change anything.

@kyle
however that would go against what the team already said that they will not give a player a choice that would lead their hero towards evil and fw would do just that.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:03:20)

all weaving classes with aegis, dc classes are not canon remember seeing as its a villain armor most likely like frost deathknight being a reskinned class.



megakyle777 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:06:12)

Ah, but is Fleshweaving truly a evil art? the cost of it? Prehaps. But the art itself is nothing more then another route to power.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:07:22)

DLU
However deathknights are not actually evil nor necros and they have no actual impact on the game over all unlike fw would.

@Kyle
let me ask you this, what if he(rorri) eats more souls to gain power?
remember he ate the soul of at least one human and I am guessing he will be eating more souls to gain more power.
if that is the case how would you feel?
more so if you need to eat more souls to fully train that class?

to me that is pure evil thus fw are evil.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:10:26)

the hero would obviously still be good on for those of us who choose FW it would change very little in the end for us seeing as i havent seen zhoom, zorbak ,sir malifact, rhuharb, etc etc being important for some time being canon for us who choose it would be one change and those of use willing to sacrifice our weaver classes in our game obviously dont use the class heck even though i have doom knight saved i mainly use CCA its not about power its about choice.


also because you say its evil means its evil how very black and white of you also ouch only your opinion matters? XD



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:14:32)

They are not import which is why it matters little when it comes to them.
we are talking about a class that requires you to murder someone.

also let me ask you this, if they did implement this and any future quest came up that required him would you be upset if they left you and other fw out of it(and rightly so) and not creat a second quest line just to full fill the fact you no long can access the other classes?




Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:15:35)

NO i wouldnt I MADE MY CHOICE and id stand by it! EVEN it it blocks out another class like soul smith heck that should be the choice FW or SS it would be like a prestiege class besides im more interested in the rose and i doubt not having SW would lock me out of that. and honestly if i felt that sore about it id play my alt for once and have him not be FW



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:22:36)

in the end it doesn't matter what any of us think, say or do.

the team will do what they feel is the best for everyone as well as the game.

I think they would have to do a lot more than just implant the new class.
such as those who won a contest and we are saddled with in the fire orb saga(I really hate that) and make them base armor if they ever went fw or give us an option to get rid of those annoying 'heroes'.

I bring that up because it fits in line with not wanting the class and how it does effect us in some form or another and being forced to have them on our side would be forcing fw on everyone.

or facing those fw in arenas which again would force us to deal with fws and again forcing other people's chose on us.




Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:24:27)

really? the arena npcs would make you mad thats really an issue!? Anyway at least we agree on something its not on us.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 6:26:51)

mad?
no

not wanting to face them is different than being mad.
it means I don't want fw's pushed on me in some way.



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