EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (Full Version)

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Stonehawk -> EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 14:10:08)

Tactical Mercenaires are currently the only ones that have weapon requirements to control energy. Since there's already double strike with a weapon requirement now, I think it's fair now to make this change, since TLMs have always been the grenade guys, lol. Maybe a small nerf to this skill also 'cause it's OP for Cybers and it would also be for TLMs, just a little bit... but I think TLMs need EMP anyway!

I suggest EMP first because of animation (grenades, yay!), then weapon requirements, then how useless atom smasher became after strength been nerfed and costs increased. A useless skill with a weapon requirement is a unused skill. EMP will make fights interesting, and as a drawback Frenzy should require a club. Since it's a useful skill, people will think twice before wielding a sword everywhere as a TLM!



Darkwing -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 14:17:01)

Arent' they also the only class with 2 skills locked to class weapon when all the other classes have 3?


They also have ultimate skill with sword, and you don't need class weapon like mages or hunters.


If they remove it from there they would have to add it to something else.


And emp is too good. any 5 focus can steal above 50 energy with it, it's too much of a build counter.




Uchiha Sarada -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 14:25:02)

Tac mercs are fine.
Not supported, emp will just make them the most OP class ever made.
They have battery backup and you want to give them emp? No sense.



Lord Machaar -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 15:44:02)

EMP would make the class dope, however I suggest that atom smasher gets a buff, because it is frankly the only energy draining skill that isn't used in the game.



Stonehawk -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 19:16:54)

quote:

and as a drawback Frenzy should require a club


Still 2 skill with weapon requirements. Why OP? Atom Smasher is already unblockable, the only difference is that unlike all other energy taking skills, it has a weapon requirement AND takes a lot less energy than the others (probably because it improves with strength). I don't think EMP should be that strong either, it's OP for being improved with the same stat that increases focus. But I won't ask for a nerf because if we keep going this way everything is going to hit 30;

quote:

And emp is too good. any 5 focus can steal above 50 energy with it, it's too much of a build counter.


With 3 energy controlling skills, it explains why atom smasher is not being used. It's almost impossible to max it and have enough skill points left for important skills (Frenzy, poison, battery). But it's fine as it is too, I just liked the idea of having 3 grenades, but you guys are right, it would mess this class.

And just so you know, I made a focus strength build and it drained 440 energy with max atom smasher. It's not weak, it's just not possible to use effectively like EMP because:
1- Strength doesn't improve almost anything, just primary weapon damage and a few skills (mostly blockable skills, eh?). Tech improves resistance, robot damage and stuff.
2- There are too much necessary skills that have to be maxed and no "explosive skills". Battery and frenzy are must-have, poison is the only skill to do good damage, so there's not much left to drain energy.








Uchiha Sarada -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 19:34:20)

Why OP? Its EMP Combined With Frenzy and Battery BackUp, a simple Tech TLM can get a -520 EMP a maxed frenzy a lvl 3 heal some hybrid and blood shield, Maxed Battery and lvl 1 Surgical Strike, Poison is Not Needed.
TLM will become The Best Energy Control Class, And the most OP Class and Most used class in the game.

Dont Compare EMP With Atom because Atom Smash is UberCrap Compared to EMP.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 19:46:21)

quote:

then weapon requirements, then how useless atom smasher became after strength been nerfed and costs increased. A useless skill with a weapon requirement is a unused skill.


If that's the reason, then just trade the club requirement with another skill.

quote:

Dont Compare EMP With Atom because Atom Smash is UberCrap Compared to EMP.


But you just compared them...Unless you're trying to tell us not to compare those two because you already did...




Uchiha Sarada -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 20:04:31)

Dual: You didnt get What I meant. He is saying that Atom is like the same thing as EMP But with a wep req and adding emp to TLM wont change it that much.



Stonehawk -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 20:13:43)

quote:

Dont Compare EMP With Atom because Atom Smash is UberCrap Compared to EMP.


Atom Smash is good if maxed or used on a high enough lvl. Only problem is that people prefer not to use strength, making this skill weak and preferring not to use it, consecutively using a sword, because double strike is another strength skill, which is pretty weak too.


quote:

Why OP? Its EMP Combined With Frenzy and Battery BackUp, a simple Tech TLM can get a -520 EMP a maxed frenzy a lvl 3 heal some hybrid and blood shield, Maxed Battery and lvl 1 Surgical Strike, Poison is Not Needed.
TLM will become The Best Energy Control Class, And the most OP Class and Most used class in the game.


1- Frenzy does primary damage. If you use a 101+35 tech build (I think EMP still doesn't steal 520 energy, though...), You will certainly have low strength, so your frenzy won't give that much energy back
2- You will have 750 health. A support TLM will pwn you in 3 turns if you don't deflect (aux, battery for the EMP you used and artillery, hasta la vista)
3- If you max EMP, Frenzy and Battery and lvl 3 Field Medic, all you can do is control energy, 2 points left won't do much. You aren't able to harm the opponent since you don't have poison
4- Lvl 1 surgical strike does 650 damage, on a tanker it does nearly the minimum damage of 200. This is all you can do to damage with skills.

As you can see, this wouldn't be OP.
BUT I have to admit it's better to have some variety, It's better to keep atom smasher as it is. I'm testing it and it's not so bad.



Mother1 -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 20:15:43)

@ Uchiha Sarada

Actually it would because as it is now TLM only has one true reason for using a club which is to use atom smasher. There is truly no other reason to use a class weapon with this class. If it is replaced with EMP then TLM will have no reason to use class weapons period seeing as double strike isn't a move TLM use unless running a strength build which isn't in right now.

In other words TLM's will get all the perks of using a sword without 0 draw back due to the major lack of class weapon skills on it's skill tree.

Then there is the fact that we will be removing a unique skill from TLM in exchange for a shared skill.

If this were to happen and either TLM or CH because OP with EMP while the other class is fine with it or visa versa then any change to this skill would effect both classes since they would be sharing the same move. In other words while one class is getting balanced with this move, the one that is perfectly fine with it will be getting Under or overpowered with this skill.

If anything we need to avoid giving classes other classes skills and focus on getting them/keep unique skills to keep this from happening.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 20:23:00)

EMP is singlehandedly one of the most busted and broken skills concerning energy flow. It is one of the few reasons why CH is still viable in the current meta compared to a class like BM.

Also, Tac Mercs weren't really always the "grenade guys." Their original kit had 1 grenade skill: toxic grenade.



Stonehawk -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 20:23:00)

quote:

Actually it would because as it is now TLM only has one true reason for using a club which is to use atom smasher.


That's why my suggestion came with club requirements for frenzy.



Stonehawk -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 20:25:46)

@Exploding Penguin

Sorry about that, I think I was the one that wanted to make them be the grenade guys, lol.

@Mother1

You're right, in fact there should be even more unique skills instead of using the same for different classes. It's good to hear opinions from other people ^_^



Lord Machaar -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 20:34:43)

To maintain equality, I think atom smasher should be used with sword, while 1 skill or 2 in TLMs skill tree receive a class weapon requirement.
The reason why atom smasher should be used with sword, because it is the only draining skill in the game that requires a class-weapon (club) to be used, making TLMs one of the worst classes in terms of energy control. Atom smasher won't make them the best, however it should give them a chance against other classes when it comes to energy control (same spot as CHs. Static smash (3turns) = battery back and EMP = Atom smasher).

Stun grenade and field commander should be replaced with new skills and should be used with club only.

Anyways, this move will only increase the game's variety, as it isn't really a needed fix, however making 2 new skills and buffing/revamping atom smasher would make the class open for more builds.



Mother1 -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 20:40:33)

@ Lord machaar

Worst actually I think second worst. I say this because at least for the club requirement it doesn't have any chance of not working. However Merc's static smash can be blocked which TLM doesn't have to worry about.

So to be honest

100% connect but weapon requirement > <100% connect chance but no weapon needed.



Lord Machaar -> RE: EMP for Tactical Mercenaries? (6/4/2015 20:44:29)

^ Yeah, I imagine how hard it is to use it against a high dex TM/BH/CH. #TheStruggle.



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