Tech requirements for toxic grenade (Full Version)

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Stonehawk -> Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/13/2015 18:17:22)

People complain about TLM's Support build being so OP. The reason is simple:
They are able to max toxic grenade without any stats. This makes TLMs abuse poison with any stats they want, while bounties/cybers have not only a weapon requirement but ALSO stats requirements.
I know they decreased energy costs and increased poison damage for venom strike but I guess it was due to the weapon requirement. I think toxic grenades needs a little technology to be made, and they should have requirements even if lower than venom strike.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/13/2015 18:34:06)

Just taking out supp TLM now? Why? Decreases variety... and it's pretty easy to counter... :/



Stonehawk -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/13/2015 18:43:44)

It's not taking out, it's making sense. If anything, remove tech requirements for venom strike too, if you like variety.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/13/2015 18:47:06)

Or make it a club, to make sense too, lol. Also, make surgical require club because other ultimates require it. <.<



Stonehawk -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/13/2015 19:00:15)

No, the tech requirements seems enough in my opinion (yes, this is an opinion!). Toxic grenade doesn't use a club, neither does the Surgical Strike.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/13/2015 19:01:54)

I know they don't have wep requirements, however poison is fine, in my opinion



Dj Pizza -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/13/2015 20:24:39)

But TLM's support build is not op. Any class with Mark of Blood shreks Support freaks. So does high hp and lvl 3+ heals. People call stuff op when really you can just shield yourself. When it comes to poison requirements, I also think it's fine as it it, since it's weaker than Venom. Even if you put a 42 Tech requirement they'll just switch from 30+18 to 42+6 Tech (fictional numbers).



Stonehawk -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/13/2015 21:07:33)

quote:

People call stuff op when really you can just shield yourself. When it comes to poison requirements, I also think it's fine as it it, since it's weaker than Venom.


It's not weaker than venom strike. They made venom strike a bit stronger because people complained that venom has requirements while toxic grenade has none.
Shield yourself? The combination of DOT, strong multi & aux damage and critical hit makes along with the best energy gaining skill makes an unstoppable combination. If you shield, there's critical hit, faster rage and poison. If you heal, there's poison. If you take energy, there's battery.
The fact is people don't want it to change because everyone uses it now.




Dj Pizza -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/13/2015 21:36:41)

BB alone is pretty easy to go around with EMP, Static Smash or really anything that steals energy. The current crit% isn't high enough to rely on, and their Aux will most likely get deflected as often as it would crit.
Also note that if you shield Aux Strike and they pop rage...well...their rage won't hurt much after that. They BB? steal energy. They Generator? Piston them back. Always a counter and a countered.

But this wasn't the main topic.

I said it is weaker than Venom. It is. I already know why it got changed I was just saying that right now..it IS weaker damage and energy speaking.
You also forgot to discuss the part where I said: "Even if you put a 42 Tech requirement they'll just switch from 30+18 to 42+6 Tech (fictional numbers)"
I think that kinda sums it up :P



santonik -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/14/2015 8:45:52)

quote:

Tech requirements for toxic grenade

Today i see very powerful poison grenades. (high str) Now you change those powerfuls poison grenades to Tech basic.


This making every tactical mercenary to 5 focus build. or at least most of them. They have pretty good damage and defence already. Perhaps it is better if we make that poison in NEUTRAL damage. Why? Because it is poison damage. poison damage going through defences. Remember tactical can spam poison. Tactical merc have 2 energy skills to skilltree. (battery and frenzy) dont forgot piston punch/generator. Back to that NEUTRAL damage. Grenade can make always low damage + poison damage. The poison damage could be dependent on skilltree skill point. This making it NEUTRAL. all build can using this skill. Still damage is big (30 NEUTRAL grenade damage + [3x130 poison damage]= 420 damage). This is pretty good damage in no invest to stats. remember all damage going trought defences. Poison is desing to TANK killing skill. Not killing every opponent.


No anymore guaranteed 550~740 damage.(str) Now you think how that damage is so high. it depent tacticalmerc STR and opponent defence.




Stonehawk -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/15/2015 17:50:14)

quote:

You also forgot to discuss the part where I said: "Even if you put a 42 Tech requirement they'll just switch from 30+18 to 42+6 Tech (fictional numbers)"


@Dj Pizza
Yeah, I erased by mistake. Well, if they add tech requirements, this is what happens, for example:

Before poison requirements:

Health: 1200
dex: 22+18
tech: 19+31
support: 141+35
MAXED poison

(all points go to health and support)

After:

Health: 1200
dex: 22+35
tech: 42+14
Support: 118+35
MAXED poison

(Some points had to go to tech, even if you change gears' attributes you can't abuse support too much unless you lower poison's level)

That's the point of requirements on some skills that can be abused by maxing stats.





Mother1 -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/15/2015 18:05:05)

Even if you add a tech requirement to toxic grenade to purposely target Support TLM it won't do no good. I see Support TLM with 30-40 Tech invested so they have less of a change of getting deflected with their aux, so adding this won't hinder them anyways since they need tech do this.



Stonehawk -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/15/2015 18:37:10)

It's not to target, just making it fair, in my opinion. I think it makes sense just like venom strike always had this requirements. It would target all builds that uses only health, a single stat maxed and max poison.



Mother1 -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/15/2015 18:43:01)

@ Stonehawk

Your OP kind of sounds like you were aiming at Support TLM which was why I made my post explaining that more TLM support builds are investing in tech so this wouldn't bother them.



Cloaked_Shadow -> RE: Tech requirements for toxic grenade (6/15/2015 19:16:32)

Would hurt 1800 builds, DECREASING diversity, yet again. Seems like @Stonehawk wants more tank builds. ‹.‹



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