Bring Back Agility (Full Version)

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shadow.bane -> Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 2:04:46)

So you removed agility with the omega update .
Okay level cap was 35 then and armors have max of 10 (100) .
Now level cap is 40 (+Ranks) and as level cap rises also the armor rises from 10 (100) to 12 (120) + the defense and resistance gained for ranks so that makes the armor 18 (180) .
We see builds with 1300 - 1400 - 1600 - 1800 - 2000 hp with sometimes decent armors like 350 + .
So what we got here is more hp and more armors than before .
Before there was agility as a penalty to those who wish to play with high hp , 170 (1700) hp - 9 (90) armors .
I think everyone knows were am going , there should be penalties for those who wish to play high hp with decent defenses .
I recently faced a strength bounty hunter with 1500 hp and 399 defense and 365 resistance . it gave me hard time to deal with at some point i lost to the low damage i made for him and the high damage i took from him , and also he had decent dexterity about 45 + 35 or so , so here on the default 8 % i only had 7 more dexterity than him that means 9.2ish % and he had 6.8ish % .
my bot (infernal) usually do about 300 + damage on those with such hp but on that guy due to his high defense i only did about 200 - 220 ... and that's my toughest attack on him , lol ? and he did with each strike about 120 - 150 , so in order to do high damage on his high hp i have to wait about 3 rounds ? and he can do as much damage as i did in about 2 rounds ... so each 6 rounds for me i do about 400 - 500 damage and he do about 600 - 700 damage .... he have 1500 hp i have 900 (Focus 5 build) does that looks fair to u ?
the only reason to balance this is to bring back agility or something near it ... that's just something to laugh about ............................... it just frustrate me and people that wish to play builds as mine .



Bender Rodriguez -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 5:17:34)

quote:

strength bounty hunter with 1500 hp and 399 defense and 365 resistance


That's not even possible.



King Bling -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 5:43:28)

1600 health with 400 defense resis is possible



overdead -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 5:46:54)

Actually, I checked and it's possible if those are maximum values. And if you have full legendary resis and def.. Plus max primary ranks.



Bender Rodriguez -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 6:09:18)

It's possible to have 1600 health with 400 def/res but by then, you'd have lower primary damage than someone of the same rank with a 5 focus build. So unless 5 focus builds can be categorized as a " strength " build, this doesn't count as one either.



shadow.bane -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 12:57:37)

@bender here you go i duplicated the build exactly tho that guy has eternal enhance core in the armor ! and he have max primary damage with ranks ! i don't want to waste credits to edit that so my ranks are on bot aux and 6 on gun max def max res ... 548 primary damage + 30 ranks that's 578 , and about 582 with eternal enhance core and he was lower rank and he got underdog level 2 !!! do the math and tell me impossible ?

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag428/NovaHamade/123123123123_zps6mhxaxyc.jpg



Lord Machaar -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 13:03:06)

If there is something here you have a probelm with, it would certainly be ranks. High hp builds are way more, more, more efficient at high ranks, because of the +30 def/resis/primary damage. I personally defeat low rank high hp builds with ease, for 2 reasons: - more HP means less def/resis/primary damage and with that been said, there are no ranks to cover up. But if you have atleast 30 ranks, more HP doesn't always mean you will have lower def/resis/primary damage, since ranks will cover them up for you. So if agility is going to be implemented, low rank players will be the most damaged, while they aren't OP at all. And I think I've already mentioned that, if a nerf/buff is going to happen without taking ranks in consideration, it will mean that low rank players might get severly nerfed even builds at such ranks aren't OP at all.



shadow.bane -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 13:47:39)

^ true said ! so what i suggest is that just like underdog mode they make agilitiy mode , like the higher hp the less defenses you have and the higher rank you are the greater the agility effects defenses if you get what i mean example :
level 40 rank 1 with 1800 hp get a penalty of - 5 (50) armors while a rank 20 get - 6 (60) while the rank 40 get - 7 (70) armors while the rank 60 get - 8 (80) armors
work just like underdog mode . and it serves the balance in a great way if u though about exactly what am thinking .

1000 hp - 10 defenses - 20 - 30 - 40

1200 hp - 20 defenses - 30 - 40 - 50

1400 hp - 30 defenses - 40 - 50 - 60

1600 hp - 40 defenses - 50 - 60 - 70

1800 hp - 50 defenses - 60 - 70 - 80

2000 hp - 60 defenses - 70 - 80 - 90

numbers above are based on ranks ( rank 1 - 20 - 40 - 60 )

of course numbers can be changed to the developers desire



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 14:43:50)

quote:

strength bounty hunter with 1500 hp and 399 defense and 365 resistance


This is so nondescript it isn't even worth debating. Strength is a very broad category and the defense and resistances weren't made clear on whether or not they were max/min/average.

And rather than having agility, i would just say have diminishing returns on health gain per point invested. That would fill a similar purpose and not leave everyone structured at certain increments of health (back when agility existed you always saw people with 94/95/109/110 health).



nowras -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 15:13:57)

@shadowbane really? u want a rank 60 to be weaker than a rank 1 ur numbers are not supported at all here are the best numbers:


hp Rank1 Rank20 Rank40 Rank 60+

1012 hp 0 - 2 - 6 - 10

1212 hp - 8 - 10 - 15 - 20

1412 hp - 20 - 25 - 30 - 35

1612 hp - 30 - 40 - 47 - 55

1812 hp - 50 - 60 - 70 - 77

1962 hp - 60 - 70 - 80 - 90



shadow.bane -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 15:26:42)

^ @nowras if u read perfectly u would notice it's just a suggestion and at the end i said numbers may be changed to developers desire !

@penguine who is ur level 40 in game ? all i see is level 36 and don't debate till u reach level 40 and know exactly what am talking about , based on your char u look not active at all , so if you have a level 40 please share it with us .



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 20:11:21)

@shadow.bane I do not have a level 40 and I am not nearly as active as I once was. However, I have put in ample amounts of time into the PvP portion of this game, with almost 25000 wins exluding NPC battles. How much credit you give my opinions is entirely up to you and I cannot make you think that my opinion is as valid as a level 40 or not.

Regardless of how much credit my statements have, if you disagree then a valid rationale would be greatly appreciated, rather than just saying "you don't understand" or "your suggestion doesn't work."

And as food for thought, win ratios and level are arguably not exactly the best way of gaining credibility in your statements. It doesn't declare that you know what you are talking about, all it shows is that you know how to win and have put in a good amount of play time. A person can have a 95% win ratio yet make terrible suggestions, and a person with a 60% win ratio can make very good suggestions.



shadow.bane -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 21:01:03)

^ my suggestion is to prevent the abuse , u would understand if u were active at this time of ed .

i myself contributed over 100 k pvp wins in disabled mains excluding NPCS (4 accounts ) this is not our topic anyway back on topic if u play ed now u would understand what am talking about .



Uchiha Sarada -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/15/2015 21:56:21)

I don't think agility will be brought back, I don't have any problems with High Hp users but what Exploding Suggested is pretty good and can work well instead of agility dattebayo



shadow.bane -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 0:51:06)

^ i don't either but just seeing those high hp and high defenses is just bad to the eyes lol and i didn't say bring back agility lol (the title is bring back agility) but id u have notice the post , give us something that is near agility and that what penguine is suggestion wont work , it's like a mini bloodlust , if you get what i mean dattebaye (do u even know what this word means anyway ?) if know ill be glad to explain :p



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 2:45:24)

quote:

play ed now u would understand what am talking about


Discarding this little side discussion made, what are your thoughts on my idea and why do you think yours is better? I'm supposing you think yours is better but I have received pretty much no opinion from you regarding it and more of an opinion on whether or not what I say is credible. This is just me but I don't suggest ruling out another person's idea(s) just because they aren't level 40.



shadow.bane -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 3:57:11)

^ not that , but a mini bloodlust ? nah wont support that .



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 9:06:29)

@Shadow.bane where are you getting mini bloodlust from? In this thread all I see from Penguin is making health work like other stats. The more points you put into it the less you get in return



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 13:14:24)

I am guessing he is pulling it from an entirely different thread made a few days to a week ago. However, I'd like to ask what a mini blood lust passive has to do with this conversation. Also, you have given no reasoning as to why you wouldn't support it. I don't mind you disagreeing with me and I think you can have very valid arguments but I have honestly never seen you express any of them.



overdead -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 13:16:35)

bane, I can barely understand what you're saying. I support exploding penguin's suggestion of diminishing returns for HP. It's the best suggestion to counter high HP str mages. The agility values either become too low to make a difference or too high that it cripples the player no matter how I look at it.



shadow.bane -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 15:58:23)

^ u clearly don't get what am saying , ur diminishing returns will only make little hp yes i understand but i wont support that ... cause it will destroy high hp builds yes but will also destroy low hp f5 build above 1 k hp ... either way the mini bloodlust is from another post am sorry got it all mixed up !



Uchiha Sarada -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 17:16:18)

Agility will also destroy high hp builds, also Focus Builds with 1khp or more will still be viable.

And Why you don't support His idea? I Would like to heard the reasons behind your reasoning dattebayo



shadow.bane -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 20:53:22)

quote:

I Would like to heard the reasons behind your reasoning


cause they higher the hp u want with diminishing returns u need to invest MORE points to health in order to get 1700 hp and for that u will lose points to str/dex/tech/supp , that's not a good thing to do but with agility u can maintain the same amount of points with the same stats . so in order not to lose 15 - 20 points from str/dex/tech/support to add to health and have weaker armors and less block/deflection/critical chances and way lesser primary damage . with agility u can maintain all what said but with penalty to armors so u wont lose block/deflection/critical chances and some of your primary damage also. point cleared i hope ?

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overdead -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 21:10:49)

Do you even have any idea what diminishing returns is? It means at a certain value, the cost would become higher than a lower value. Example, the diminishing returns can start at 1,100 HP. After that mark, the stat point cost would start to get higher and progressively get higher as you increase.

Example (just to illustrate, not actual numbers):
Stat cost per 20 HP before 1000 HP=1 stat point
Stat cost per 20 HP after 1000 HP=2 stat points
Stat cost per 20 HP after 1250 HP=3 stat points
...



shadow.bane -> RE: Bring Back Agility (7/16/2015 21:17:31)

^reeally overdead ? really ? :p then take a build now from someone who uses 1700 hp and try to calculate on making a similar build of 1700 hp and same armors and primary damage with the stats u said with diminishing returns ! be my guest and tell me ur result after ur done :D



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