my opinion on certain skills (Full Version)

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RaXZerGamingZ -> my opinion on certain skills (8/22/2015 16:45:51)

im just gonna give my opinion, i am gonna do every class .

Bounty Hunter : smoke screen : good skill but easyely counterable
: massacre : good skill , reccomend it to every wrist blade hunter - scrap that , someone told me its not all that good but keep it at level 1 is what i would do
: stun grenade : good skill but can be abused
: multi shot : same as stun grenade , good but can easyley be overabused

Mercenary : bunker buster : good skill , pretty usefull , reccomended it to any mercenary
: artillery strike : good skill but easyely overabused
: surgical strike : good skill , aspecially the rage stealing , reccomend it do mercenary's
: adreline rush : good skill , if someone steals rage or you wanna rage faster , although 85% damage is usually 30...

Tech Mage : thunder ( yes i prefer to call it thunder or " lightning " ) : pretty good although its annoying if it stuns at damage lower then 100... ( its actually a suggestion of mine wich i will post soon )
: plasma rain : good skill , easy to abuse and should requare a staff because its damage is high and undeflectable
: ultima move ( the lifesteal high damage at the bottom ) : good , reccomended to every caster mage
: energy steal move : good , although its icon should be changed because it doesnt requare a staff anymore

Cyber Hunter : static charge : okay skill , need high strenght to get good energy back and 85 percent damage is again usually 30 ( unless critical afcourse )
: EMP grenade : good sill , steals allot of energy even on level 1
cyber doesnt have any other exclusive feature :D

Tactikal Mercenary : frenzy : ignores 10 of defences and grants HP and energy gain , good skill
: blood shield : good skill , 5 turns doesnt cost energy but costs HP , worth it ( didnt think so before but now i do :D )
: atom smaher : good sill , steals allot , dont know if it can be blocked or not but i think it does
: mineral armor : good skill , 4 turns and adds extra defences as a percentage

Blood Mage : parasite : good skill for bosses if you wanna drain mana and then use generator or piston punch to get more mana back
: plasma cannon , good skill , reccomend to get it level 5 or above
: fire bolt : good skill , the extra buff the dev's added doesnt help much but its something


and thats it :) hope you enjoyed and let me know what you think in the reply's

Moved from ED GD ~T.O.



Mother1 -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/22/2015 17:10:20)

Atom smasher can't be blocked. The only blockable energy drain is Static smash. (assimilation doesn't count because it's drain doesn't depend on connecting but rather just dealing any damage)



Stonehawk -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/22/2015 17:45:00)

Static Smash is still blockable? I thought it wasn't anymore...



Mother1 -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/22/2015 18:07:12)

Oops you are right I checked the notes and it looks like I missed that one my bad.



shadow.bane -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/22/2015 18:56:33)

massacre is not good at all unless u have a reliable energy source and it do little damage not worth invest energy or skill points on .



Stonehawk -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/22/2015 19:03:09)

It's okay! Speaking of static/atom smasher....

quote:

: atom smaher : good sill , steals allot , dont know if it can be blocked or not but i think it does


Steals a lot? That last change on it was the worst, atom smasher costs 90 and drains 190 at almost 60 strength... Why did it happen?

Atom smasher already depended on primary damage. Making its % improve with strength means it depends on strength twice. It means for lower strength builds atom smasher is just a waste of energy, 'cause primary damage is already low and now the % of that primary damage drained is lower too. It's not right for a skill that requires a club to be used! It was supposed to be good, to make it worth using a club, just like wrist blades are good because of massacre and venom strike, two awesome skills if you use them correctly.



RaXZerGamingZ -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/22/2015 19:42:50)

^ my bad bro , didnt know it was nerfed , it used to steal allot , my bad



Exploding Penguin -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/23/2015 0:56:18)

Massacre itself is not a bad skill. It's just terrible in application because none of the classes that it's on can reliably supply the energy to use it. But its damage is crazy high and is very useful since people don't expect it to do that much damage.



shadow.bane -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/23/2015 3:06:35)

^inanormal one v one match surgical will do 400 + if level 4 + same as super charge and talking on a 400 res/def + enemy here ! show me a massacre build where on level 4 it do 400 +damage on a 400 res/def + and i promise ill make myself be banned in forums and in ed and no one will ever see my face again :) .



Exploding Penguin -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/23/2015 6:26:26)

It has crazy high damage. I never said supercharge and surgical strike didn't or that massacre did more than them. But whatever, here's some math for anyone interested:

Using numbers on the wiki:

It would have to do 800 damage at rank 4 to fit the scenario you have given.
Surgical strike base damage at rank 4 is 390 + 1 every 0.4 levels past level 20. This amounts to 440 base damage at level 40 and at rank 4

To get that remaining 360 that we need:

+1 damage per 0.4 technology

So you'd need 144 technology to get 800 damage. And this is the minimum since you said 800+. Yeah this is possible but not really very common at all to run 144 technology on a build from what I have seen. And this is a minimum. The person might have more than 144 technology in a "normal one v one match" as you stated. Normal 1v1 matches really consist of very high technology builds I guess.

Let's look at supercharge instead. It'll probably be a bit more reasonable since it has that resistance ignore:

So supposing that the opponent yet again has 400 resistance, and supercharge ignores 20%, that's 80 off, so it's 320 resistance when calculated. In order to do 400+ damage it would have to MINIMUM do 720 after this calculation. Well, let's see here:

At rank 4 it's 390, just like surgical strike
+1 damage per 0.38 levels after level 20, just a bit faster than surgical strike. Amounts to, at level 40, 52.6 more damage which will be rounded up to 53 damage, so 443 base damage. 720-443 = 277

It scales at +1 damage every 0.5 technology, which means half of 277 is the technology we will need to achieve this ubild, which is a solid 138.5 technology. Not much better than the surgical strike claim in terms of how realistic it is, but I guess builds out there do exist.

Okay, now let's look at massacre:

With capped legendary ranks the primary bonus damage is +380. At rank 4 massacre it is a +66% bonus.

166% of 380 is a solid 530.8 damage, which rounds up to 531. Add in melee strike damage which will need to amount to another +269 which is not gonna happen at all.
You'd probably need around 200 strength to hit 800 damage before defense/resistance calculations.



shadow.bane -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/23/2015 7:16:31)

um lol ... yeah but in game it goes in a different way ... i don't trust wiki calculation cause it have same kind of moderators , i tried it and tested it in all classes . and i stand with my point , i don't need lame wiki calculations i need real preview of the damage u said will be done. end of story.



RaXZerGamingZ -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/23/2015 18:39:30)

@bannehallow yeah you are right doesnt have the highest damage output but it does do allot on max



Mother1 -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/23/2015 20:25:08)

Problem with that is max out ultimate are almost never used or even usable because of everyone having energy drainers to stop them not to mention the high cost of energy. Even with high base energy it is still hard.

Which is why people due to the current meta at high levels use low level to mid level ultimate if even that.



Lord Machaar -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/23/2015 21:15:13)

quote:

mineral armor : good skill , 4 turns and adds extra defences as a percentage


This skill is basically favorising tanky builds. What if my defense is already weak, wouldn't a percentage of it would only be weaker and useless? Which is the case for strenght and support builds.

That's why I think all shields should have no relation with either defense or resistence, technology or dexterity. Since this only contributes to making tanky builds more tankier. E.g: Technician.



shadow.bane -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/24/2015 11:32:48)

it does do a lot on max but with my calculation on max massacre do same damage as level 6 surgical and level 5 super charge ... fairness ?



RaXZerGamingZ -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/25/2015 5:58:09)

depends if you boost the damage with stats



shadow.bane -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/25/2015 10:45:12)

how ever u boost the damage it will remain broken let me explain :

massacre ... will only do high damage if u have insane str and a 8 - 9 or max massacre not less rest is a laughable damage for an ultimate , not to forget high str means low armors ... equal more damage on u and it will cost u a lot of energy to use this massacre which can betaken with frost shards , energy shot or any skill that take energy and u will only be able to restore 65 % of what is taken from u so it is pointless .

surgical or super charge : all use it with a decent f5 build means high on armors , and level 3 - 4 or 5 is enough cause a decent 80 - 100 tech gives it good damage and not to mention the 30 % lifesteal with rage/resistance ignore ... and a max massacre high str bh/ch build will be useless vs them cause basically tankers and they deal high damage on u with whatever skill they use .

basically bro don't look at numbers in the wiki , look at the facts in game .



Exploding Penguin -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/25/2015 14:31:09)

The wiki is the facts that aren't explicitly stated in the game.




DELTA BEING -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/25/2015 19:37:08)

here is the link for the wiki: http://epicduelwiki.com/



shadow.bane -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/26/2015 7:08:56)

lol , facts ? don't seem likeit lol

what i call facts is what i see in game when we pvp , numbers are just numbers .



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/26/2015 9:49:23)

@Shadow.bane since you insist on having this argument here are the in-game numbers for each super to do 400+ damage on 400res/def

Supercharge needs 162 tech at rank 4. It ignores 80 res at 400 so you only need to hit 720
Surgical Strike needs 169 tech at rank 4

Massacre is a bit harder to test because it uses percentages and damage ranges instead of straight numbers so I did a real test instead of just saying damage - resistance
Build
Target dummies build
Before massacre
After massacre

There you have a level 4 massacre doing 441 damage and it only took 170 strength. All of these 400 damage on tank builds are fairly silly to me but you wanted the in-game numbers

EDIT: I am actually pretty happy to see this is about a ten point spread to get the same damage output. Granted I didn't sit there and test Massacre to the point it was averaging out to 400 damage so it could be a smaller or larger spread



nowras -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/27/2015 16:39:26)

Massacre is so weak at low level ranges no one would spend all his points in str but u would do that in tech ofc cuz it increases ur resis and u don't have to invest in health to survive until u use the move

But here's a fact the no one of you guys know about massacre


MASSACRE CAN DO DAMAGE EVEN HIGHER THAN SURGICAL STRIKE ON MAX LEVEL WITH NO STR POINTS AT ALL

how is that possible? Here's how massacre works

120% of the 380 = 456+ 410 (primary damage with no str) = 866

this is actually pretty much good

whats bad about mass? investing in str would only increase it's damage by a little amount

that means even if u use all points to str it would do 1100 damage max which is pretty much weak for a skill that doesn't have lifesteal or rage reduction nor def ignore

while u can get 1k damage when u spend all ur points in tech but u have 20% resis ignore and lifesteal...

and massacre requires support it doesn't require dex or tech that means it will leave u alone with weak defenses and that's it weakness

I tbh see that the % of massacre should improve with tech and it should require dex that means if u use a 5 focus build u could also use mass! but there should ofc be a reduction in the damage %

it should improve by 1% for each 6 tech points that means if u want to use 134 tech (750 hp 46+35 dex 99+35 tech 45 sup and str) ur going to have a 132% more damage if its nerfed by 10% (base %) so that I think the base % should be nerfed by 5% only so u do 137% more damage so the total damage of this attack becomes : 1009 which is pretty good for a skill that doesn't give u health back or ignore def/resis



Exploding Penguin -> RE: my opinion on certain skills (8/27/2015 16:57:14)

The problem is when % skills got changed it still states that they scale with strength when they really scale more with your level, or your primary damage to be exact.

Thus, the only skill that actually scales with strength is really just fireball. For a fun factor and a bit of change they could make the percentage of massacre increase with another stat as well so it kind of serves as hybrid scaling where it not only adds in your strike damage to the base % increase set value, but the % increase is based off of a second stat as well.



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