=ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (Full Version)

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One Winged Angel1357 -> =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/27/2015 16:06:45)

quote:

[image]http://epicduel.artix.com/images/icon/Nightwraith_ED-DN_2011.jpg[/image]
August 27, 2015
The Dragon's Return Part 2
[image]http://www.epicduel.com/images/cms/EpicDuel_Browser_PVP_MMO_Dragonoid_Part_2_DN.jpg[/image]
As we stated last week, if you haven't finished Part 1 of the current storyline, now is the time, otherwise these Design Notes may be a bit spoilery for you.
Tomorrow, we will release part 2 of The Dragon's Return, which will challenge players to confront the force controlling Dravax and threatening the destruction of Delta V and the demise of Charfade as we know her.
[image]http://www.epicduel.com/images/cms/EpicDuel_Browser_PVP_MMO_Dragonoid_boss.jpg[/image]
Along with the concluding mission chains, we will be releasing some incredible new items that have only been teased at in the past! With 3 new achievements, this week will be a spectacular conclusion to one of the most compelling EpicDuel storylines ever!
[image]http://www.epicduel.com/images/cms/EpicDuel-PVP-MMO-Merged-Dragonoid-Armor-DN.jpg[/image]
15 missions, 3 new achievements, a multitude of styles and home items round out this great EpicDuel event! Will you be able to slay the Dragonoid?

Next WEEK!
[image]http://www.epicduel.com/images/cms/EpicDuelWavesOfWrathPromo_dns.jpg[/image]
Remember this? Next Friday, the Waves of Wrath gear, along with the rest of the TLAPD content returns to EpicDuel!
[image]http://www.epicduel.com/images/cms/kartheraxguns_dns.jpg[/image]
That includes the Kartherax Promotional Gear from last year because, as we have done with previous promos, we're giving players who missed them the first time for whatever reason a chance to enjoy these awesome items!
YAAAR!

BioBeasts in In-house Testing!
BioBeasts has formally entered into in-house testing. What is that? Check out our latest BioBeasts Design Note post to learn more!
[image]http://www.epicduel.com/images/cms/BioBeasts_Testing-1.jpg[/image]
Functionally, the game is very nearly complete. We are mainly adding content, details, polish, and improving that every-so-elusive fun factor to ultimately release the most polished Artix Entertainment mobile game yet! As testing progresses from In-house to extended (closed Alpha) testing, we will post more clips of gameplay to give you clearer picture of what BioBeasts is and (hopefully) build excitement toward the imminent release.
Tags:


Tag! You're it! ~Battle Elf
Added in the typo fixes ~OWA
Thanks OWA ~Battle Elf



Battle Elf -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/27/2015 16:24:57)

Hopefully I'll be able to reach 6 blue stars with 3 new achievements!



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/27/2015 16:44:16)

No balance changes, sweet. Pretty excited though for the kartherax bot even though strenght builds aren't doing that well.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/27/2015 17:08:51)

@ Battle elf

Good luck with that, and as for me 7th star here I come unless these three cheevo's are worth less than what I need for get it.

On topic

The Kartherax bot something I have been wanting for the longest time I think I will buy it even though strength isn't as intimidating as it was last year.



SonicTbear -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/27/2015 17:20:59)

Hooray for my birthday in about a week! (7 days) Free money! Though I'm not 100% sure if I want this set yet...



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/27/2015 17:30:40)

No balance for a month and a half at least, what the heck guys? Stop focusing on content, and make the game good



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/27/2015 22:39:14)

Latest true balance occured 3 months ago (on may), this just proves my point more and more, the game has one and a half tester, devs still refuse to add in more testers that will cost them absolutely nothing... But hey, let's hire a PR guy who will promote for content that isn't even there.... Irony.
I do note consider the guest artist team as a representative of players, I mean sure you said that players will contribute more through this system of guest "members", but I only see artists who present weapons that will never be used due to the lack of cores.
I mean let's be more realistic here, Omega is no different than other phases in terms of players contribution, I even found it worse since all the suggestions now go to the bin.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/27/2015 22:49:29)

@Lord Machaar Therril's primary job is be another line of communication between the forums and the dev's something that was squarely on Battle Elf's shoulders until real life got in the mix.

Promoting content is something every member of the guest team is to do. Meaning even the testers should promote the content



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/27/2015 23:12:27)

Forming a link between devs and players means that Therril will be asked, by more than one player, and many times, what's coming next? Is there any upcoming content?
I mean Ranloth spoke to us about balance changes weeks before their arrival, because Ranloth actually played the game, he was not a figure, he actually knew what was going on in the game. That's what it takes to form a link between players and devs, experienced in-game, and involoved in its developement, so you can be able to discuss with other experienced players. Not by copying what Nightwraith said on his twitter account.

I don't mean to offense offend anyone, but this is what I think about newly added members, whether they are mods, testers or something else.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/28/2015 0:51:42)

@Lord Machaar I took the liberty of reading through a lot of post made by Ranloth before coming back to this thread to find examples of Ranloth telling the players about balance changes ahead of time. Well what I found was the same thing that happened when Rabblefroth came in and talked about changes to Robots prior to it happening. There was discussion of the changes but when looking at the OP and looking at the patch notes there isn't a lot of deviation so what was the point in the conversation in the first place? A warning that somethings will be nerfed in an unknown period of time or that there is a buff to a skill coming in the future.

Rabble's Robot Thread
Strength Changes
Balance Notes July 31st

Now I assume this conversation is good because it gives you some kind of hope but we have done a few studies so far and both times people are fine with it in the discussion but once the patch notes roll around people are upset with the results.

All said and done this is just my take on things so I want to hear why you want more of these types of things knowing that more than once it has been a non-conversation that could be relayed by any member of the team



Therril Oreb -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/28/2015 1:31:40)

I admit that I am not with EpicDuel form the start. And no, I am not a level 40 rank 15 because I am not the type of guy to grind for levels.
This does not mean I have no mutual interest in improving the game with you guys.

I keep learning new things every day and I will do my best to support both you guys and the developers.
I cannot however speed up the process releases are developed. There are many plans and with the development of BioBeasts (which is going very smooth), many of those plans are for a later date.
This does not mean they will never happen so I am asking for patience. Big balance changes are for later as well, so if you see the small balance tweaks that are done not as a balance update, then yes, it might take a while.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/28/2015 2:41:16)

@ OWA

My guess is some hope even if it is a false hope is better than no hope at all. As well all know people have been waiting for the longest for the changes that will in their eyes put epic duel off the broken disk and onto the fixed one.

Personally I feel only a full Jenny Jones make over would do it not these small tweaks here and there and certainly not big changes that haven't been checked out for flaws (AKA the Passive to active change)

I can list a few things off the top of my head that need to be addressed to at least start getting the game back on track.

1) over lapping skills (with the exception of field medic) Which causes a class who isn't under or overpowered with it to become so due to another class having said move that needs a buff/nerf.

2) The still over stressed energy problem. Passive to active change caused this one along with the cost on cores and even with all the band aid fixes (giving every class a way to drain/gain energy, lowering the cost of cores Etc) Energy is still over stressed to the point where variety had been shot in the foot. While I can understand the staff wanted to make the game more strategic and remove little to no drawback moves, in the near future I seriously suggest running said ideas through either the players, or Mod/Testers who play actively to make it easier the catch said flaws.

3) Lack of balance between primary weapons as swords. Sorry but all the balance changes due to some people thinking said things will increase variety in reality just indirectly nerfed primary and mutating weapons, while indirectly buffing swords by making the drawback so minimal it is hardly even felt. It didn't already help that a lot of class weapon skills were already nerfed so hard indirectly due to other balance changes. While I get swords are supposed to hold an edge in power they it isn't supposed to be so much of an edge that it make it an almost complete disadvantage not to use one due to balance. To fix this problem I would suggest either lowering the stats that swords give to the point where they match primary weapons, or do the reverse and up the stats primary weapons give to that of swords.

I could go on but I will stop here.



shadow.bane -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/28/2015 6:58:33)

@ all , biobeast is taking over the minds of devs that is making them forget a bit by bit about ED , balance is needed in ED , @therril as u said u have no level 40 that means do u understand what are level 40's are talking about when they say something is broken ? sure u can go to testers server and make a level 40 but u would be able to test it in real servers and try pvp for real and see what's wrong ? we need balance cause the game is literally unplayable . like today an 1700 hp with 22+35 dex blocked my robot twice xD no cores no dex blocks ? -.-



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/28/2015 12:37:46)

@OWA

I do agree with Mother1, there is a difference between knowing what's coming up next in the game, and having no idea whatsoever, I mean for me personally, that would mean the difference between quitting the game and not.

The small tweaks players can do while giving their opinion about a balance matter is better than nothing, it is not even the point about sharing with players whats coming next, it is the idea to tell players
what's coming up next. I mean who has access to the devs server?

These conversations would be more productive if players were given tools to test the game, it is a normal thing that all suggestions/balance changes requested by players get shutdown by testers/devs?
I mean what do you expect? Who has the testing tools has an overview of the game and therefore better understanding of its mechanics.

I think balance conversations should stay, what could be done is:
- Give players testing tools.
-Or- Run the extra mile and actually test what players suggest. Read what's beyond the lines, not everyone can speak and write English fluently, do not expect commas and periods so you take a suggestion seriously.

I've been told more than once that Rabblefroth checks on the balance section and reads whats in it (Not sure if it is the case anymore after biobeast taking over), yet he manages to shutdown all the suggestions
due to the lack of what? depth? Are you kidding me? What do you expect from a player that is only giving suggestions based on his/her class/character, I wouldn't really expect detailed numbers
with detailed expressions, I mean you should be glad that players do speak about what bothers them, it is the testers' and devs' duty that they signed up for to run the extra mile and combine between
all of these opinions and conclude what the game needs.



Vextur -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/28/2015 13:36:38)

Still can't believe there was no war during whole summer..

On topic:
I like the content but not the pricing so i won't be buying anything. Good saga altogether

Anyone knows who created new swords?



Exploding Penguin -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/28/2015 15:00:00)

quote:

@therril as u said u have no level 40 that means do u understand what are level 40's are talking about when they say something is broken ? sure u can go to testers server and make a level 40 but u would be able to test it in real servers and try pvp for real and see what's wrong ? we need balance cause the game is literally unplayable . like today an 1700 hp with 22+35 dex blocked my robot twice xD no cores no dex blocks ? -.-


From the point of the devs not that many people on the forums talk about stuff like that. And when the devs try and listen and implement stuff it doesn't go well for them. This might be their bad judgement on what to put into the game but still, they have very little reason to listen to forum people's complaints about balance unless it is pretty much unanimous (Which it almost never is) or if there is something like a video to support the claim.

It would probably be easier to get what you wanted if you made a video or something portraying what exactly you find wrong with the game including examples of why it should be fixed.



Therril Oreb -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/28/2015 15:13:49)

The new swords were made by Bido!

As for the current releases. We are fully aware of this. We know big balance changes have not happened in a while, but we really ask some patience from all of you for this.
BioBeasts is priority for the team right now. Once this is over, we can spend more time in ED with releases more towards balance.

Also, this release involved quite a bit of testing as well, so this also slowed down what little time we had to work on the balance.

Now, regarding the suggestions. We don't just swipe them from the table. We read them and take them in consideration.
There is however a planning set up and changes are not made on the fly to this. If the time is there or if the changes are a big improvement, we can change things up, but otherwise it has to wait.

While the team is busy, me and Battle Elf make sure what you guys say goes through to the team. So don't think we ignore you guys ;)



Xendran -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/29/2015 6:17:40)

What is truly needed is additions more than changes.
No matter how many balance changes are made, it won't solve the true problem which is the skills being stale and sparse. This is what results in such low build variety and the stagnant meta.
One of the few changes that would help bring more variety back to the game would be undoing the "all weapons are the same" debacle.
Basically, rather than trying to "fix" the current system, there needs to be a focus on adding more depth to it (but in an elegant way that does not cause issues with the learning curve).
Yes, it would require veterans to effectively relearn the game and you may get a few vocal people who hate "all these dumb new changes", but what people really want is the ability to gain more knowledge and become better because of it.
This can't happen when there is no new knowledge to gain other than minor variances to the already existing systems and skills.

From one dev to another, the biggest piece of advice regarding captivating players interests and adding depth to the game: Do not be afraid of complex and overly complex ideas. Rather, embrace and refine them until they are streamlined and add the depth you want without being overwhelming to understand. Integrating the mechanics gradually over the course of the levelling process is by far the best way to do that, but that's something you probably already knew.

That, and an additional set of leaderboards that last a month or two, like how ARPGs (Or a particularly well known card game) have seasons or leagues. Trying to top All-Time is futile, and dailies are all-or-nothing affairs, and require an entire day (and possibly 2 if you have to sleep through the next day).

The artwork in these updates is pretty solid though, I'm liking it.



MirageD -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/29/2015 11:34:29)

This can't be more true:

quote:

One of the few changes that would help bring more variety back to the game would be undoing the "all weapons are the same" debacle.
Basically, rather than trying to "fix" the current system, there needs to be a focus on adding more depth to it (but in an elegant way that does not cause issues with the learning curve).
Yes, it would require veterans to effectively relearn the game and you may get a few vocal people who hate "all these dumb new changes", but what people really want is the ability to gain more knowledge and become better because of it.
This can't happen when there is no new knowledge to gain other than minor variances to the already existing systems and skills.

From one dev to another, the biggest piece of advice regarding captivating players interests and adding depth to the game: Do not be afraid of complex and overly complex ideas. Rather, embrace and refine them until they are streamlined and add the depth you want without being overwhelming to understand. Integrating the mechanics gradually over the course of the levelling process is by far the best way to do that, but that's something you probably already knew.


This can't be more false:

quote:

Once this is over, we can spend more time in ED with releases more towards balance.


ED is over. The developers have moved on due to the directions from AE. ED balance releases have been promised for years and have never happened. The only releases that have occurred have been from guest artists and guest story tellers. The developers have been pulled off this project. Sad but true.

~mira



Therril Oreb -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/29/2015 11:45:18)

quote:

ED balance releases have been promised for years and have never happened. The only releases that have occurred have been from guest artists and guest story tellers. The developers have been pulled off this project. Sad but true.

There have been multiple bigger balance changes during the years. The fact people don't like them does not mean they never happened.
True, the last few months, most releases were mostly done by the guests artists but that is not because the devs have left ED. In fact, releases cannot be released without their help.

quote:

ED is over. The developers have moved on due to the directions from AE.

You cannot be further from the truth. The Devs are still working on ED, but their priority lies with BioBeasts for now.
To ensure EpicDuel can continue to exist and evolve, the staff needs to adapt and learn new things as well. But you cannot expect for this to happen while at the mean time continue full time on EpicDuel.

And again, there are plans ahead of us once the time is there to work on it. Rather than worrying or complaining, it would help the devs if you supported them
The sooner and the better their project is done, the sooner they can work on EpicDuel again.

The knowledge they gain through these new projects allows them to go new directions with EpicDuel.



MirageD -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/29/2015 11:56:24)

quote:

You cannot be further from the truth. The Devs are still working on ED, but their priority lies with BioBeasts for now.
To ensure EpicDuel can continue to exist and evolve, the staff needs to adapt and learn new things as well. But you cannot expect for this to happen while at the mean time continue full time on EpicDuel.

And again, there are plans ahead of us once the time is there to work on it. Rather than worrying or complaining, it would help the devs if you supported them
The sooner and the better their project is done, the sooner they can work on EpicDuel again.

The knowledge they gain through these new projects allows them to go new directions with EpicDuel.


I have supported the ED staff financially for the last 5 to 6 years. The knowledge that they are now gaining (albeit a good thing) is not for the benefit of ED. It is for the benefit of AE as they try and penetrate the mobile market. It has already been stated by the ED staff that migrating ED off of Flash is near impossible and I don't think they are even attempting to migrate the game to any other PC based venue. As I understand it, they are moving on to mobile games that are less complex and for younger audiences.



Therril Oreb -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/29/2015 12:18:00)

The End of Flashplayer
This thread should explain it all to you then.

Unity is not only for mobile gaming, it might look like it but plenty of unity games have been made on the PC as well. [;)]

Neat fact of the day: Hearthstone, the competitive card game made by Blizzard was made on the unity engine. And nobody can say that game is not successful or a mobile only game. it got mobile only a year after its initial release!



Satafou -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/29/2015 13:25:38)

One of the main reasons hearthstone is as successful as it is, is probably due to the fact it's made by Blizzard... You can't really compare AE games to games made by Blizzard, implying they could be just as successful if they were both made on unity.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/29/2015 13:31:08)

The claim isn't that any AE game will make it to e-sports level like Hearthstone has but to remind everyone that Unity isn't just a mobile platform.

This community seems to be latching onto Unity meaning that Artix Entertainment will only make mobile games when the truth is AQ3D is looking at, and currently working on, a mobile platform release and the EpicDuel team will move from mobile games to PC games as their grasp of Unity increases



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= August 27, 2015 - The Dragon's Return Part 2 (8/29/2015 14:27:10)

A gaming app can easily hit the market, it doesn't necessarily have to be made by a "big company", Angry Birds was basically made by bunch of programmers who failed miserably, but you never know when you hit the jackpot.



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