Ranking System (Revamp) (Full Version)

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Lord Machaar -> Ranking System (Revamp) (9/6/2015 21:00:52)

The revamp mainly targets NPCs botters, since many can now do that without getting detected, and that's pretty much clear as devs are already struggling to detect those who bot in PVPs, I came up with
this solution. As simple as:
Experience gained through NPC battles counts towards NPC Legendary Mode (ranking system).
Experience gained through PVP battles counts towards PVP Legendar Mode (ranking system).
Credits remain untouched.

Details:
- This will start at level 40 rank 1 only. Leveling up system remains intact.
- This means we will have 2 legendary modes, PVP legendary mode, you can rank up in this mode through PVP battles only, plus each time you rank up, legendary points gained will be used in
areas that affect PVP only (Not like now, up for debate however to not force players to NPC), for instance, primary damage, sidearm damage, auxiliary damage, etcetera....
Other mode is NPC legendary mode, you can rank up just by doing NPC battles, legendary points will be invested in areas that affect NPC battles only, for instance, NPC crusher and NPC armor, more
to be added.

E.g: Lord Machaar; NPC rank: 15 and PVP rank: 30.

Fun facts:
- This means experience gained from NPC wins will no longer contribute to the player's general experience, so pretty much we will have two types of experience (2 Legendary Modes),
PVP experience gained from PVP battles and NPC experience gained from NPC battles.
- This will put an end to NPC botters who end up with 90 ranks then come here to cry about advantage.
- Want to be an AQW player? Fine, get 250 billion NPC wins through botting, you will still have 0 advantage in PVP battles. Want to enjoy PVP? Level up through various PVP battle modes, balance can't be forgotten.
- Underdog is here to stay. Medical mastery and energy efficiency to the bin, PVP legendary mode cap goes down to 60.
- This doesn't mean you are obliged to do both, you get to choose, each path has its perks, you can do both, or you can do one, what I care about is, your 30k NPC wins won't matter.
- Your 2 ranks will be calculated based on your PVP wins and NPC wins. Up for debate, we might start from scratch.
- PVP ranks can or can not affect NPC battles, this is up to debate, since now primary/aux/gun/bot damage... affect NPC battles, this might stay to not force players do "NPCs" in order to have a chance
against legendary bosses, therefore there will be only some additions like NPC armor and crusher that are gained through NPC battles only. NPC legendary mode CAP: 30 - 40.
- Each path opens special shops, achievements and other stuff.



thebestmerc000 -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/6/2015 21:37:09)

no



Lord Machaar -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/6/2015 21:45:06)

If anyone does not agree with the tweak, it would be great to explain why and maybe even propose some alternatives.
I mean many said no to underdog mode, but it is already here. If there was an explaination after that no, we could've seen a better underdog mode, so yeah, logic wins at the end not opinions.



Mother1 -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/6/2015 23:23:19)

I have several concerns about this idea and I will explain each of them.

1) Time zone issues.

As we both know different time zones deal with different populations in game. There are varies times where the player pool falls below 200 players which has means there is a devastating chance of wait times happening for certain modes. Especially when not everyone is within your level range or playing the same battle mode as you. It is because of this that many players do NPC's to progress in all things from gaining levels to gaining ranks.

If this idea goes into play it could very well mean the halt to progress of getting 80% of your ranks due to 80% of them being for both modes but only can be earned in PVP battles. What happens if a player actually has all their NPC ranks for a reason and can't find a battle due to this or has to wait long for said battles to come. It will very well as I pointed out slow down progress of said players.

2) starting from scratch?

100% not supported due to the simple fact that there are people who worked their butts off honestly be it PVP battles or grinding 100 NPC without botting to get their ranks. Some of which even payed varium for the boosts to speed things up. If the staff were to put this into play and force everyone to start from scratch it would like taking a very hard slap to the face, or getting kicked below the belt in other words painful. If everyone could be refunded the varium they spent for exp boosts to do this then it wouldn't be nearly as bad however we both know how the staff is about refunds.

3) To be honest this would be more punishment to the honest players rather than the botters.

Why do you ask? Simple what is the main reason people who bot bot? So they can rank up quickly without the work of doing said battles be it NPC botting or PVP botting. Plus those who do bot don't care about their battle records even if said things are hidden. Put this into play for them and will it stop or even reduce bots? Not even close. They will just do the same as they been doing be it PVP botting or NPC botting it won't make any difference to them seeing as they can just switch between the two when one gets full.

However with normal players who play the game fair they get punished more. Why you ask? Because they essentially lose a safe way of ranking up to a point where they feel confident that they aren't under powered to fight in PVP. Before the massive bot craze started and when ranks were brought in people grinded NPC so they could rank up safety and quickly without damage to their records do to losses. That was one of the main reasons why NPC's gave experience. However, if this goes into play those players will lose their safe haven especially when the game has bad balance and will be forced to do this to try and level up.

Now my final issue with this a reason to say no but rather something that should be fixed within this.

4) The NPC limit

Even with 20 ranks for NPC unless you are playing during powerhour with boosts on it would take you the total of 6-7 days min to rank up once and this is if you do 100 wins with a NPC on your level. Otherwise it will take longer for you to rank up in NPC ranks due to this. If anything the EXP for NPC ranks should be increased as well as work as PVP battle EXP in the sense that

A) If I battle a NPC within my range I should get the same experience as if they were on my level.

B)If A can't be put into play then NPC experience between ranks needs to be lowered so you can rank up quicker in this area. Seeing as NPC battles won't have an effect on PVP battles it would seem fair especially seeing that there is a daily limit.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/7/2015 7:11:13)

Thanks for the reply, after I read your reply, I instantly found a contradiction between number 1 and number 3 (second paragraph), and I will explain why:
1 & 3- In number 1, you stated that my suggestion would result in players running from PVP, and then afterwards in second paragraph of number 3, you said my suggestion means low rank players
won't find a safe way to rank up, would this lower the number of players who PVP too?
I mean this is the problem, low rank players are currently not playing PVP, they prefer to NPC.
My suggestion will do the opposite, since NPCing will no longer have much benefits, if you read my tweak, you will see that the NPC ranks cap won't be huge, so anyways, all players will eventually have
to PVP. When the game dies totally, then we can turn ED into AQW and raise the cap, but as long as there players and this is a PVP game, NPCs should not matter.

2- Sure, enhancements' removal was a bad thing, but if there won't be a total revamp, there will be a partial one, since calculation of each rank (NPC rank and PVP rank) will have to be done, how
it should be done however is another question. Should we count the total NPC wins? Can the engine allow us to count wins (NPC and PVP) from the start of omega or not?
These are questions that will decide the formulas of calculation.

4- There will be NPC limit, as I stated earlier, there will be a cap, once you reach 30 NPC ranks or 40 as maximum, more NPC wins will mean more uncounted NPC ranks, like the current system.
NPC limit might get raised over to 200.

Some few points I would like to refer to:
quote:

They will just do the same as they been doing be it PVP botting or NPC botting it won't make any difference to them seeing as they can just switch between the two when one gets full.

As I said in OP, there is a different between PVP botting and NPC botting, PVP botters can be detected, and devs have already introduced a fix, and I'm sure there are less botters. NPC botters however
cannot be detected, why? Simply what's the difference between a human doing NPCs and a bot doing NPCs? They are the same 5 moves. As for PVP botting, there are endless strategies, and even now
some botters use the kartherax bot against me while I don't use a strenght build, this is a strong indication of botting, also their moves do not change no matter what I do, I even give them the chance
to defeat me, I recorded some of this and I sent it to the support team, and I said this time, if there won't be a perma ban, I will bot myself.

- Ofcourse when I'm speaking of this suggestion, I'm not isolating it from the game, this tweak will occur within the game, therefore balance changes will happen simultaneously, for instance the 2vs2 fix
and the juggernaut fix, even 1vs1 will be fixed, this will give players plenty of options.




Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/7/2015 12:26:35)

Wouldn't the return of battle captcha be a simpler way of addressing botting?



Lord Machaar -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/7/2015 13:23:20)

This is a revamp that mainly solves the botting problem, but fixes the game also, you see, it is not logical to earn PVP advantage doing NPC wins, since the both do not have anything in common, farming
a NPC doesn't take any skills whatsoever, which isn't the case for PVP battles.
My tweak aims to solve NPC botting problems but also aims to make the game more PVP based, as players will eventually have to do PVP from rank 1 to rank 60. Not like now, farming NPCs from rank 1
to rank 60, then coming here to cry about PVP advantage. I think there is a difference.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/7/2015 13:44:03)

^

I disagree for the reasons Mother1 has provided, but even if we go by your reasoning, it's easier to just eliminate all XP gains from NPCs, possibly beyond a certain player level.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/7/2015 14:28:53)

What reasons?
As for eliminating XP gained from NPCs, I'm telling you that there will be 2 paths, 1 path for NPC battles, and 1 path for PVP battles, if you are afraid from doing PVPs due to the huge number of high ranks,
I already stated this change would come up with additional fixes, 2vs2 fix, jugg fix and even 1vs1 fix. Plus, experience required to rank up will be much less, from 7.5k exp to 4k or 3.5k exp, and if you
told me the system was made for hardcore (no lifers) players, I'm telling that there is the other path, so my idea is, why combining both paths and making it hard to rank up?
Let's split them up, split the experience you need to rank up with into half, give the first half to PVP ranks, and second one to NPC ranks, once you finish the first one, you will move to the second one,
if you do not wish to play one of the both, simply, continue doing earning PVP ranks to unlock shops and achievements. Same thing goes if you choose the NPC path.

Yet, I would like to repeat my point, the NPC path will be much shorter than PVP path, meaning all players will eventually have to join PVP at some point, since this is a PVP based game. Yet, when they
decide to come back, they will have 0 advantage, unlike now.



Mother1 -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/7/2015 16:06:47)

It wouldn't matter if this idea were to give 2,000 other paths that this will go by if one of those paths isn't PVP advancing you might as well just remove NPC EXP from the game once again like they did at the beginning of omega because this would be doing just that.

Plus IIRC that idea didn't go over to well with the masses seeing as it basically made NPC in their eyes worthless since they couldn't use them to PVP progress.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/7/2015 17:08:57)

I've mentioned that the NPC path will have its perks, for instance, there will be legendary bosses that cannot be defeated without the NPC ranks gained from the same path, there will be cheevos, there will
be a dedicated shop... therefore, you will always have something to do, whether playing PVP battles or NPC battles. I don't see where the problem is with that.

Plus, we cannot deny that NPC botters are killing the game, and if we are going to neglect this fact, I might just create a couple YouTube videos to show how you can bot while you are sleeping, even
schedule botting time at PH, even more than that, schedule the bot to turn on the computer, open the browser, login to ED, and do NPC battles, that's if you don't want to waste electricity and let the
computer running all day long. (I will send you screenshots to understand what I'm talking about.)

I might even start a demo and show you, while I'm at college, how I can obtain 30 ranks just by botting in 1 or 2 months. And then I come here to cry about advantage and how underdog mode is bad.

If there won't be a radical change to this problem, well simply, all of the problems you are concerned about are here to stay, from PVP battle modes being empty, to high rank players crying about PVP
advantage, to flaws in balance itself.



Foulman -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (9/9/2015 7:42:30)

Gotta fix the time zone problem. 160 is not a big number...



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (10/14/2015 18:34:29)

In battle advantages in ranks is a bad thing damaging to the games reputation with new players.


Its a hardcore mode that benefits the elitists and forces the average players to deal with them with a massive power advantage this is a very very bad thing.

Should of never been implemented .

And should be removed as soon as possible. Make them cosmetic or out of pvp perks

I cant stress enough how damaging ranks are to this games future.

But I feel like AE know this and have give up on the game and like other companies just want to pander to the elitists for what money they can get before the end.

Simple fact is they don't have the playerbase to support 40 levels and balance matches, So adding power ups to the guys already at the top is a recipe for disaster.



shadow.bane -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (10/17/2015 14:42:22)

ummm no !! not even gonna discuss it ...



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (10/17/2015 15:42:32)

^Then why bother posting that in the first place...

IMO ranks were a really great way to give people at the level cap stuff to do or work towards without actually requiring the devs to do much work themselves. If they raised the level cap normally they'd inevitably have to create new skills for each skill tree and they probably knew that. As a result ranks came into play and while it seemed like a quick nice fix at the time it's just led to a disaster now. Moral of the story: Don't take the short-term way of fixing things that just leads to damage in the long-term. If they wanted players to still get EXP and have some sort of leveling system for the players at the level cap they could have just taken it more slowly and spent the time to expand skill trees or do something similar, which would have definitely made ED a much more different and probably more fun game than it currently is.



shadow.bane -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (10/17/2015 17:57:57)

^ i don't care about what devs think or say or do ... i just want to have fun in a game ... but where's the fun in a game where jealousy and haters comes and call u bad names just cause you outsmarted them and found a faster way to level/rank up ? i am not lazy i have patient but why don't you ? that's the question (so u blame ur laziness for not choosing what seems to be the right decision to empower ur self don't blame us for outsmarting you)



WhiteTiger -> RE: Ranking System (Revamp) (10/17/2015 18:10:40)

Please don't bump dead threads, locked.



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