Fixing Pyro Fly (Full Version)

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Silver Sky Magician -> Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 6:51:33)

First of all, I want to ask if you think this bot is overpowered or otherwise game-breaking.

Secondly, do you think that replacing its special with a repeatable Concussion Shot i.e. can put one of three highest-levelled skills into cooldown as a repeatable bot special would make the current situation better? Consider that this would also turn Pyro Fly into a pseudo-Gamma Bot.

I wish to clarify that this thread is solely made in my capacity as a player and does not mean that changes to Pyro Fly are being considered by the devs.



Cookiesaregood -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 7:37:18)

Yes its insanely op the 3 highest skills ? Like who thought of that ****.



Mother1 -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 9:59:01)

Do I feel it is game breaking? Personally it depends on the player you use it on and the skill it this. I say this because It isn't a sure thing depending on class and skill it hits.

For example you could be a TM and hit reflex boost on a BM or BH which mean you did nothing with it but waste a turn. Then there are other times you can still get the skill you want but still end up losing because the player even though they were dealt a hard blow could still work around it as many other have mentioned.

Also as for making the pyro fly like this sorry but no. Concussion shot is hardly even used because it is not only unreliable but only put a move on cool down. The pyro is only used because even if it's effect is one shot there is a chance it will be useful. Making it a repeatable concussion shot with make the negatives of this bot even worse seeing as not only will it be unreliable due to it dealing in chance but even if it will also make it worthless seeing as you can't even choose the move.

If it is going to be changed at least make it where the person can choose the move they want so it will be reliable because to be honest not having a choose of the move you want and it having a cooldown is the main reason why concussion shot is rarely used.

But even so this bot's special would be made 100% worthless on certain NPC's which is why some people also use this bot as well.

@ Cookiesaregood

When the bot first came out it was nowhere this powerful. We had passives and the meta wasn't like this in the least. Not to mention it was varium only so the masses didn't have access to this bot if they couldn't by varium. Then lets add to the fact that the meta of ED wasn't energy based either so this was never an issue. It was because of the changes in balance that this bot got buffed to the sky. Passive to active update, then the overdepenance on energy based skills was what made this bot supercharged.



Satafou -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 11:56:55)

It isn't game breaking as it has a very precise use. It's sole purpose is to disable a certain move your opponent has to break down their game play strategy. However it is luck dependant as to what move it actually disables and it isn't exactly a bot you'd use with most builds, since most builds have other viable options that compliments them more effectively. This bot in my opinion could only even be considered broken if you could choose the move you wanted disabled without fail. The pyro fly robot sacrifices many other elements that an successful bot has: damage, phys+energy dmg options, defensive play, every move works as you plan it. The pyro bot is a risk bot, high risk, high reward. If you disable the wrong move it can be wasted turn and put your bots offensive attack on cool down.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 12:30:10)

It depends, as Mother1 stated, on many things:
- How good you are as a player.
- Class the pyro fly was used with, and the class it was used against.
- Build it was used with, class it was used against.

I would also point out that pyro fly contributes more to non-focus builds, as you might get punished by using it with a 5 focus build (due to IA).



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 12:38:22)

It has a bad identity as an RNG type of robot. Making it reusable but only putting skills on cooldown won't fix it at all because it maintains this bad trait of unpredictability as well as probably just end up being completely worthless unless you hit the right skill every time since it does absolutely no damage with its special.

Honestly the whole concept should just be changed to a new bot effect instead, or made more reliable so that the skill it takes is 100% known before its usage.



Cookiesaregood -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 15:42:59)

What are you talking about it could hit reflex boost who even has reflex boost as one of the 3 highest skills its not practical.Against current builds its either gonna hit say against a Dex Tm plasma rain, battery or assimilation which are all pretty essential to a build. A support TLM with poison. It will take out the poison,artillery or battery. It definetly is game breaking as its not a counter to anything its just an idea the devs put into the game. Its a really dumb idea tbh



santonik -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 16:03:24)

Smart player can elongate (3 highest skills).


Normal player Skilltree is something this.

(poor example)

3-3-3

10-5-1

1-10-1

2-5-10 This is (only) 3 highest skills.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smart player elongate 3 highest skills.

example)

3-3-3

10-5-1

1-7-1

2-7-7 3 highest skills turn to 4 highest skills.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another example


5-5-3

9-5-1

1-5-5

1-5-5 3 highest skills turn to 8 (migthy) highest skills.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember PYROFLY can take only 1 skill to 1vs1. 2vs2 PYROFLY can take 2 skills in same character. Same thing is juggernault mode. PYROFLY can destroy 2 skills. NOTE:need both opponent players have this bot.





Exploding Penguin -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 16:15:33)

^Why am I forced to change my build to specifically deal with a single item. That's kinda not right IMO.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 16:22:18)

quote:

^Why am I forced to change my build to specifically deal with a single item. That's kinda not right IMO.


Hatchling rush memories [8D]



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 16:30:57)

@Exploding Penguin I wouldn't say you are forced to change your build unless your build uses every skill point at your level. I personally have invested all my extra points into a random skill just to pull Supercharge out of the pool of possibilities for Pyro Fly so that I don't lose my damage output



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 16:35:31)

Hatchling wasn't a build changer, if you knew how to play ...



Mother1 -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 16:55:19)

@cookiearegood

I wouldn't have mentioned that unless I have actually seen and/or experienced it in battle. Also you are thinking about TM with those examples with BM if you are mentioning Plasma rain. Also taking away poison from a support TLM using it isn't game breaking seeing as I have seen smart ones can play even without a certain move depending on build.

Lastly were you around when the bot first came out? Cause if you were you would have seen the meta was completely different than it is now. But here is away to give the pyro fly a good nerf. GET RID OF THESE ACTIVE SKILLS AND GIVE US BACK THE OLD PASSIVES! While the developers won't do this if we got back our passives I grantee you the pyro fly would get a good nerf seeing as back when we had them this bot wasn't nearly as powerful due to it not having the power to take out passives.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/13/2015 23:12:20)

quote:

@Exploding Penguin I wouldn't say you are forced to change your build unless your build uses every skill point at your level. I personally have invested all my extra points into a random skill just to pull Supercharge out of the pool of possibilities for Pyro Fly so that I don't lose my damage output


Some people intentionally balance their skill points invested in a fashion so that it increases the skill pool from which pyro fly can disable thus reducing the chance of the more critical skills from being disabled. While I don't do this myself the fact that this is really the only way to "counter" the robot is kind of dumb. If that kind of way of building would be a way to deal with a fairly broad genre of builds (IE dex TM, strength strike builds, etc...) then I would be fine with it. But to counter one robot out of some crazy number of cores/bots in the game? Not good.



nowras -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/18/2015 4:32:34)

Hatchling rush could be countered with Hatchling rush it wasn't a problem

and pyro fly isn't a problem too

the only time pyro fly really changes the game is when u vs somebody who is a dex mage and then he takes ur energy draining/gaining skill

and this can be countered if pyro fly takes at 0 focus the 5th highest skill

1 focus - 4th highest skill

2 focus - 3rd or 4th highest skill

3 focus - 3rd highest skill

4 focus - 2nd or 3rd highest skill

5 focus - the highest 3 skills



Darkwing -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/20/2015 11:59:55)

I had this bot for a few months now.


What I noticed: Most of the time it locks useless skills, rarely it locks good skills.


The times it locks good skills from the enemy so I can have a good advantage is so low it's not even worthed.

This bot hurts classes based on certain skills( support, dex) more then it hurts the popular 5 focus build. 5 focus builds can manage even if you lock one of their good skills since they are the jack of all trades.

Some even have like 4-5 on a similar level, so you have a good chance to lock something useless.


And if you're going to nerf this bot, you should take a look at the other bots too. IA still does huge damage on tanks with rage, yeti bot that gives you 100% deflect and block chance for 2 turns? lol that's balanced, right?



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/20/2015 15:29:24)

quote:

What I noticed: Most of the time it locks useless skills, rarely it locks good skills.


It's called bad luck. It hits the skills I want it to hit a fair amount when I use it.

quote:

IA still does huge damage on tanks with rage


This has to do with rage and the damage of robots in general not just IA.



Darkwing -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/20/2015 15:52:29)

then what about the yeti bot? it's enough to have 70 hp and you can survive for 2 turns. Sure, you could hurt them with skills, but that more easy to say then do. They way the game worlks is too easy to run out of energy, talk about the classes that don't have proper energy regain(mercenary for example)



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/20/2015 19:06:57)

My point is that bots do way too much damage on 5 focus builds compared to builds that don't have 4-5 focus.



Foulman -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/22/2015 5:45:26)

Yep. It's OP. Mother1, think about it. Yes, Reflex might be a waste, but SA, MOB, Static are all essential for surviving rage. Then, the Pyro bot has a 75% win chance. That RNG simply is not fair. Especially if the user is a tank TM. Yeti bot isn't OP, Darkwing. Either play defensively, or skip turns if you have a blockable/deflectable rage that you don't want to waste. And Exploding Penguin, you said your normally mediocre build becomes an unstoppable beast with Pyro. So it's OP.



Mother1 -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/22/2015 8:57:49)

@Foulman

The only way it would truly be OP is if I could choose what move I wanted to remove every time. If it was like that then I could agree with you. What you and everyone else is experiencing is just bad luck which is what this robot is a luck robot.



Darkwing -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/22/2015 11:42:41)

I have yet to see a person say that pyro lock good skills most of the time, before you can suggest such a drastin change.

And nerfing pyro without nerfind the other bots will only lead to most use IA all over again.


@Foulman

Let's say none of you have energy, your enemy has 70 HP and you have 40% hp. that bot can make the 70 HP guy survive for 2 more turns, and you will do like 60 damage and he kills you in those turns with normal damage and rage

And in 2vs2 its even better, at least when none have energy since it's 100% block and deflect.



Cookiesaregood -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/22/2015 15:28:58)

What are you talking about its just bad luck its the 3 highest skills and there all essential so what are you talking about?



Mother1 -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/22/2015 17:15:17)

@ Cookiesaregood

Can you choose the move you want to disable with said bot? No you can't the bot is a high risk high possible reward bot because of this fact. Meaning if I were to hit a move you needed it is all luck nothing more. If I could choose the move I wanted then it wouldn't be luck at all now would it?

Also have you heard of certain moves only being used against certain opponents, or even piling skill points into a move because you don't need said skill points? Players have done this because they have too many and when players do the later the pyro fly doesn't know the difference so it is possible it will target said move instead of another move that is actually needed as you put.

For the former some moves are only used for certain opponents and not all. For example as I mentioned many times reflex boost which is used for smoke BH or support merc and possibly strength builds but is everyone one of these builds? No they aren't. What happens when a person using said bot hits a move that isn't needed for said battle even if it is one of the highest 3? Answer they wasted a turn and bad luck hits the person using the bot.

While some classes this bot hits harder than others, it is all luck with this bot seeing as there is no grantee they will take what they want.




Cookiesaregood -> RE: Fixing Pyro Fly (9/22/2015 17:19:26)

There is no luck factors as there is no risk at all what is the risk ? It costs no energy at all and it disables one of the top 3 skills. Now tell me how there is a risk .



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