Revamping the Current Metagame (Full Version)

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Silver Sky Magician -> Revamping the Current Metagame (12/7/2015 0:06:02)

There is much criticism of the current energy-centric metagame, but I personally do not understand the reasons behind this or what alternatives there can be. IMO the current meta is the most balanced in EpicDuel's history and build variety is quite decent, and many necessary balance changes can work perfectly well within the current meta. With the upcoming skill revamp, however, there is a rare opportunity to not just shake up the meta, but fundamentally change it. I hope to understand

a) your thoughts on the current meta and your specific reasons for supporting/criticising it
b) your proposed alternatives to the current meta

Please note that balance issues like the overuse of Infernal Android or Mercenary possibly being underpowered do not constitute problems with the overall metagame.



Foulman -> RE: Revamping the Current Metagame (12/7/2015 1:20:52)

*Cough* PYROFLY



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Revamping the Current Metagame (12/7/2015 1:43:56)

It's not that it's unbalanced, it's that the game has been balanced through a poor method that just makes the game boring. I'll try and explain it a bit more thoroughly because this statement is probably hard to understand.

Basically, the game is only balanced because every class is actually just the same. They all have about the same number of tools and only maybe 1-3 skills differentiates the classes from each other. We may call defense matrix different from reflex boost, but they're both basically the same skill in terms of use anyways. When all of the classes are fairly similar it just doesn't give any value to changing class at all. Even worse is that focus is still in the top most viable and commonly used build. In most fights, no matter what class your opponent is, there is a very high chance they will just be using focus and you feel like you're fighting the exactly same opponent. There's only slight adjustments to how you actually play your own build's strategy. Thus, it's basically ruined matchup variety entirely.

Second problem is also stemming from every class becoming similar. Since pretty much everything useful except for robots costs energy now (one of the huge reasons why focus builds are good is because of this) a cyclic energy meta is really prevalent. All the classes have fairly reliable tools for gaining or draining energy. This doesn't affect the first 5-8 turns or so of a battle that much but in EVERY endgame it pretty much amounts to the most simple, predictable fight ever. And it's not fun at all. It's a simple cycle of generate, drain, generate, drain, etc.... The only actual strategy now is just timing the use of energy drains, recoveries, and consumption of energy itself. There's nothing else, and the lack of variety in battle strategy makes PvP even more bland.

As a result, there are also a few other problems with the meta. The real big main purpose is just that, while fairly balanced, it stales battles so much that they all feel the same and people quickly lose interest. I can only play like 5-10 at most before just getting bored and not getting back on for another few days. The other problems are things like Pyro Fly being ridiculous because energy skills are huge staple skills that can't be ignored on the tree at all.

So what would happen if energy became a less necessary resource? If only a couple classes have the ability to steal, generate, or remove energy then it brings back a lot more variety. That in itself is a huge thing that greatly changes how a player would approach enemies of different classes. Second off is that once those skills have been removed from the tree more slots are opened up to introduce newer ones which can actually bring about a lot more build variety, as well as further individualizing the classes. In order to compensate though energy itself would have to be more impactful when it is used, since it's a resource which is a lot harder to get ahold of in general, but this also adds more dynamic shifts in the momentum of the fights as sudden huge hits off of max plasma bolts or landing a strong debuff can really change up the fight. Overall, it's more of a problem that trading around energy all the time is really monotonous and boring. Taking out some energy skills from some classes and replacing them with brand new ones along with the overlapping skill update just has a ton of benefits to it as well.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Revamping the Current Metagame (12/7/2015 14:59:57)

Without too much bragging out, I think the game's balance got way more better since december of 2014, which is the time I came back from a 1 year and half break. I've started doing pvps at level 35, till now (rank 36), and only PVP, I haven't done NPCs to level up or rank up, that's why I had the ability to adress many, many problems within the game, which were fixed afterwards, some weren't, ofcourse big thanks to Ranloth for being the link. So before criticizing this current meta:
quote:

IMO the current meta is the most balanced in EpicDuel's history


Yes, it is. Because everytime I remember that before I joined the discussion here (decemer 2014), everyone was totally okay with a level 38 facing a rank 60, without an underdog mode, and anyone with basic elementary degree, would do a simple mathematical equation to prove how much broken such system was. So I guess one of the biggest contributors to the current balanced state of game is underdog mode. Suggested by me and supported by Ranloth.
Second thing, which I still remember str BMs were dominating the game, basically everyone was using str BM. Since it has been nerfed (suggested by me and other players, thylek shran, mother1, etc...), the game jumped from one dominating build, to currently having 10 - 12 viable builds.

So I think the game went from criticizing "ranking system" and blaming everything on it to dealing with real balance problems, for instance, difference between classes and current game meta and how much centric it is around energy skills. Thus, I guess this is a good start for a proper discussion about true balance, although underdog mode is still not doing well in certain level ranges.

Therefore I only want to state that, the game has come a long way in 1 year, and I won't discuss how the game's current meta can be revamped, why? Because it is absurd and it's a waste of time. Unless if OP confirms such discussion will be taken into consideration of future balance changes to the game, I would be glad to lay down my ideas, but since devs are still, for 1 year now, focusing on biobeast, I completely refuse to waste my time on a topic that will be forgotten and neglected, and I already started doing that by "never" posting or replying on the suggestion thread. This reply of mine is just showing that the game now has got way more better in terms of balance, it's not a perfect state, but it is balanced, and I don't think with all balancers with biobeast, the game can get any better. So just leave the game as it is now, otherwise, trying to revamp it, with the current amount of balancers/testers (which is basically 0), I think the game will get worst.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Revamping the Current Metagame (12/7/2015 22:13:42)

IMO, the devs took the wrong method of "balancing" the classes. What I see is that each class is becoming the same. Name one feature that a class has that another class can't do....besides the ultimate. This brings no variety what so ever. All the skills are basically the same and on top of that, skills are recycled. If we can find a way to balance the game without making the classes more and more alike then I think a lot of fun/variety will be brought back. I think it would be a good idea to give each class their own advantages/counters for advantages.



Mother1 -> RE: Revamping the Current Metagame (12/7/2015 23:16:50)

@ Cyber Dream

The poorly done Passive to active change was the final nail on this one. But what really caused this was players who wanted to have their cake and eat it too complaining about who their class was at a disadvantage against another class that could exploit their weaknesses and saying they should have X to cover out Y weakness.

The passive to active change is also what caused Primary weapons to be nerfed into the ground indirectly as well. Thanks to energy moves being mandatory due to the Energy dependent meta Any class that had an energy drainer/gainer (with the exception of TLM Atom Smasher) Has had the given the flexibility to work with any weapon due to people's complaints about how one class had said freedom while their class didn't.

And because of this change (making more and more moves sword friendly) without either

A) Buffing Primary's

or

B) Nerfing Swords

Along with the remaining moves that are primary locked being jokes We now have it where Swords rule the game and if you want to play the game you must play with a sword or be at a power and stat disadvantage due to this (By the way SSM When you asked me to explain why I disliked the current meta of the game this is your answer.)

In other words the original advantage of non sword based weapons was reduced to where it isn't worth it for most.




Xendran -> RE: Revamping the Current Metagame (12/8/2015 10:42:47)

Passive skill trees that change up the game + more skills



The berserker killer -> RE: Revamping the Current Metagame (12/8/2015 12:49:56)

Well here is what I really think should be done:
Balance Wise
1) Return the strength scaling back to what it was in early omega while keeping gun scaling with dex and simultaneously increasing the amount of defenses gained by investing in Dexterity or Technology. What this simple update will do is literally fix the strength problem by synchronously buffing the stat and every skill/core in the game that improves with this stat, while not overpowering it since investing in dexterity and technology will give you more points on your defenses (tank builds will be tankier).

2) Buff class weapons to have the same amount of stats as swords but not as much damage. This is the real factor, or one of the real factors, as to why we're not seeing any differentiation in the game. Cores may be part of it, but the fact that swords give more damage AND stats is really pushing people away from using their class weapons or being different.

3) Stop using players as your only source of evidence. As stated before by Mother, a lot of kids are simply on here to complain about one class not being able to counter another class. They fail to notice that every class has a weakness to another class, every class has it's strong points. Before making a change to the game try actually playing the game (not meant in a mean way) and doing extensive testing.

4) Make Retraining free or dramatically cheaper (make changing class 500 varium and 25,000 credits)- Please listen to this lsit and read it well. You don't have to release something every week if you do these simple suggestions. I can promise you. By doing these two things you will ensure diversity.

The game was fair before, now it's equal. And fairness is not the same as "equal". "Equal" is boring. There's nothing exciting here as you stripped and taken away things in the game in order to fix your problems. Instead of stripping away, you should've simply added to the game with simple features, similar to a cake: You make it exciting by adding to it, not stripping things away. Then, when you've gone too far, that's when you take away one or two things. Everything that was once exciting about this game has been taken away.

Once again, it's not "fair" its "equal". If "equal" is what the devs were looking for instead of a large player database, fun, and fairness, then keep the game exactly the way it is. But if you're looking for fair then the suggestions stated above will be a great start to bettering the game.



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