RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (Full Version)

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Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 11:49:02)

Necromancer and DragonLord are pure defensive classes. They have moments of good damage (Seed + Familiar for Necro, DragonSoul spam with DL), but they're sporadic and even then they aren't anywhere near what an offensive class can do. Also, Evolved DragonLord is exactly the same as all the other versions (other than appearance obviously) so I'm not sure why you mention that variant specifically.

But yeah, Evolved PumpkinLord and Ascended Chickencow are the only non-money options for tier 3 offensive, other than the Atealans. And EPL is only available during Mogloween (unless you've already trained it before and have the Armor Closet) while ACC takes a ton of grinding to get for free. So I suppose if all those are out, then DK, MSW, Ninja or Paladin would be your best bets, or Frost Moglin Armor if you want front-loaded damage (i.e., high burst at the start of a battle to kill weak enemies quickly, but poor sustained damage throughout a longer battle).

UltimateDoomKnight -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 11:54:22)

Does it matter which version of the DragonLord I mention, Sakurai? I'm not talking about just offensive, I mean the amount of damage and just because an armor isn't tier 3 doesn't mean that it is not a offensive armor.
In fact, most of the strongest offensive armors are either rare or DC. I took the Necromancer as an example of offense because it has a good mix of both defense and offense. The Necromancer can take up to 2100 damage or more with buffs and if all hits are critical... At least at lvl 80 but you understand the point. You can easily repeat the strategy while other armors have more cooldown for their skills than Necromancer.

Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 12:51:26)

But Zrenzokr asked for offensive classes and Necro/DL don't have good offense compared to the tier 3 offensive classes; offensive = good damage, and the higher the tier the more powerful an armor is in general, so tier 3 offensive armors are going to have the best damage. Yes, like I said Necro can hit for a good amount with Seed + Familiar (I helped with the strategies and math for the Necro guide so I'm aware of its capabilities), but all tier 3 offensive armors have a much higher average damage and many can hit for much higher with their bursts too. Asc for example can do over 3,600 with its main combo and then over 3,100 every 4th turn afterwards, assuming all crits as you do, while Necro can only do that 2,100 every 9 turns and only if you get the 3-hit seed and all hits crit, which is almost never; it'll usually do around 1,300 (Asc will usually do 2,700/2300, for comparison). And Necro has mediocre damage otherwise unless you get the rare 3-hit Summon, while Cry for example can do 750+ almost every turn since it has a much higher chance of critting.

I'm not saying Necro is useless for damage or a bad class (it's one of my favorites actually, along with AoT, Asc and DL), I'm just saying that it's not something to mention when someone asks for an offensive armor...

UltimateDoomKnight -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 13:28:38)

Yes but Xrenzokr asked for NON-DC offensive armors and maybe Necromancer isn't stronger than some other classes, yes, but it sure has lesser cooldown which means that Necromancer can quickly use that strategy again while it takes for the other armors a bit longer time to reuse a strategy. This is another strategy for more damage you can use: Seed, Shadow Boon, Inspire Terror + Raise or Raise + Inspire Terror for high damage. Raise, because it can do more than two hits after the skill Seed. So even if there are more powerful armors it is still matters about strategy use as you well know.

These are the one Non-DC armors that are good offensives: Evolved Pumpkinlord, Ascended Chickencowlord and Evolved Dragonlord. In my opinion, Necromancer is probably the strongest tier 2 class.

Solanaceae -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 13:50:08)

I'm not sure how Evolved DragonLord is at all an offensive class. Its damage-per-turn is lower than most Tier 2s.

Also, you missed DeathKnight and the Atalean classes (RiftWalker, Ascendant, Cryptic).

UltimateDoomKnight -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 13:52:14)

@Epic Durian Xrenzokr already told about them and he required suggestions of other offensive non-DC armors which Sakurai and I discussed with Xrenzokr. Check page 3 on this thread and scroll down.

Solanaceae -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 13:54:17)

Ah, I see. Still, I can't imagine EDL being an offensive class. Paladin does much more damage than it, and it's a Tier 2. Ranger is another offensive, though it eats a lot of mana.

UltimateDoomKnight -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 13:55:56)

Yep, EDL is a defensive/offensive armor but more defensive than offensive. Paladin is more offensive than EDL but less defensive than EDL.

Xrenzokr -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 16:03:20)

I'll see what I can do with ECL and Ranger. Also, isn't Paladin more of a situational / defensive class since it has heals and most of its more powerful attacks are ele-locked to light?

UltimateDoomKnight -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 16:05:50)

@Xrenzokr Only against undeads and other creatures with darkness element, that's what Paladin was made for. You do know that you can get Ascended Chickencowlord Armor without needing to pay for DC? It's a tier 3 armor and way stronger than Evolved Chickencowlord Armor.

Xrenzokr -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 16:13:41)

Yeah, I know. Anyways, besides Asc, DeK and EPL, which offensive class has the most damage per turn? I just want a good change of pace [&:]. Don't want all the buffs, defenses etc.

UltimateDoomKnight -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (12/31/2015 16:19:35)

If you're talking about a non-DC class it's probably Evolved Pumpkinlord and Deathknight.

Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/1/2016 3:42:11)

Paladin is good offensively because some of its skills are ele-locked to Light; it gets a damage compensation for that, so all of those skills have higher-than-normal modifiers. Obviously rather useless against anything resistant to Light, but that's a rare trait. And against undead - which are very common - it's just fantastic.

@Epic Durian - DL has decent offense if (and only if) you keep your HP below 20% so you can spam DragonSoul; doing that, it's got damage that's probably better than tier 2 offensive classes, other than Baltael Soulweaver, but it's very finicky keeping yourself alive but under 20% and lots of things will give you a full-heal that then forces you back to bad damage for a while. And it's still got lower damage than tier 3 offensives of course, but then that's to be expected for being arguably the king/queen of defense.

@Xrenzokr - Ascended ChickenCow by far. Until you can manage to get the DCs or the rare ChickenCow drop though, either MSW or DK (but only if you use the full DK set along with it). In longer fights Ninja can probably beat both of them though, with its very-high-damage but long-duration DoTs. And against undead Paladin wins.

Xrenzokr -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/1/2016 5:06:48)

@Sakurai : What's the best way to use MSW?

Faerdin -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/1/2016 6:33:14)

That would depend on the circumstances. Are you fighting a single enemy? Is it a boss monster?

Against boss monsters, this is the "rotation" I tend to follow:

Soul Seal -> SoulSynch -> Soul Burst -> Reckoning -> SoulSynch -> Soul Banish -> Soul Pierce -> Soul Aegis -> Valor Impact

The goal with Master SoulWeaver, from my experiences playing around with it, is to provide yourself coverage while setting up chained attacks. You should be mostly (If not entirely, factoring in the ability to Stun) protected when employing Master SoulWeaver in this way, especially if you are level 80 and use level 80 equipment to beef up your Melee, Pierce, and Magic Defense. Soul Seal keeps you guarded while you charge up SoulSynch and apply Soul Burst's -20 All Resistance, Reckoning and SoulSynch's second usage deal tons of damage before retreating behind Soul Banish's Blind, etc.

However, if you are looking for the best short term damage for the sake of quickly dispatching mooks, that would probably look a little different.

Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/1/2016 9:35:59)

The best strategy damage-wise for MSW is simply to keep SoulSynch's buff up (so don't use it a 2nd time until the end of the fight, to finish off the enemy) and spam Valor Impact; it has better average damage than Reckoning considering the +50 Crit. It has a CD of 4 and requires Soul Pierce to be used first, so:

To start off with large burst;
Synch -> (stun/shield if necessary, otherwise) Burst -> Pierce -> Impact -> Reckoning -> whatever

Afterwards, you basically just use;
Pierce -> Impact -> whatever you need -> whatever you need

And repeat.

For killing normal quest mobs quickly, against single targets Reckoning is your best bet but might not be enough to 1-shot tougher things. In that case the most you can do in 2 turns is Pierce -> Impact, which will kill most any normal mob. For multiple mobs, Remorse is a pretty powerful multi so often it'll be enough to kill 2/3 on the first turn, but always keep in mind that you can Synch before using it to increase its damage by 35%, in case there are multiple tougher mobs.

dragon_master -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/1/2016 21:01:21)

Within the order of offensive classes you didn't mention EnTropy? With a proper Darkness weapon,using Spit,Infect,Blood Vomb (in the order as shown),you will weaken enemy for -60 Darkness,and blood Womb boosts you by 80%.So:
You can make 800 - 1200 dmg with Rotten Touch and Putrefying Being easily.

Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/2/2016 9:36:43)

It's actually only 70 Boost, and since sacrificing a turn of damage for only 1 turn of 70% boost is strictly inferior to using another skill that does the same damage (Womb is only worth 189% at most while Being/Touch do 270%), Womb is only worth it when your other nuke is on CD, so the ideal combo for damage is more like:

Spit -> Infect -> Being -> Womb -> Touch

Buffing yourself up all the way against an enemy with 0 Darkness resistance, you'd be doing about 1,400 on average at level 80 with a DC weapon, and you can repeat that every 4 turns so it's pretty respectable. However, there's one big flaw with that; Darkness is the most-resisted element in the game, so you can't count on Infect/Spit always giving you a decent buff to damage. And without Infect/Spit, enTropy's damage is mediocre.

That's why, while I will say that if you know a quest isn't going to have any Darkness-resistant enemies then enTropy is up there with EPL and AoT (not as high as ACC/KAA/Atealans though), I can't recommend it as a strong general offensive choice when it'll be crippled offensively so often.

Sneevillord -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/2/2016 11:26:30)

Im looking at my secondary rogue, at lvl 50, should I grind bk 3 ravenloss for MSW, use ranger, or use normal soulweaver? Im having trouble deciding

UltimateDoomKnight -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/2/2016 11:32:27)

Which one is easier to use for you? As far as I know there is almost no difference between MSW and SW. Ranger requires long focus in order to execute a high damage dealing ability.

Sneevillord -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/2/2016 11:35:41)

i prefer short burst classes like riftwalker to do quick farming/grinding but I didnt much like cryptic

UltimateDoomKnight -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/2/2016 11:44:03)

I see. If you are fully trained with Soulweaver you could use that to finish book 3 ravenloss or you could use some of the other armors as well. It all depends on the battle situation and how it changes.

Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/2/2016 13:04:56)


As far as I know there is almost no difference between MSW and SW.

There's a reason MSW is tier 3 and SW is tier 2; MSW is much stronger, and the effects of some skills are shuffled around and improved. Here are their respective 'pedia pages to compare: SW vs MSW. Really, the only reasons to use SW are personal aesthetic/roleplaying preferences (not really something we can advise you on xD) or Baltael's Aventail, but that's not usable 'til 60.

As for Ranger, it's certainly a unique class with its dual-passives and you may enjoy it because of that, but it's not especially powerful when compared to a tier 3 like MSW.

All in all, MSW is definitely the strongest of the 3 (until 60, when you can use Baltael's Aventail to unlock BaltaelSynch on SW which is a massive nuke usable on the 1st turn), but Cryptic beats all of them by miles. The Atealans are all some of the strongest classes in the game, with Cryptic being the defensively-focused one but still having very good damage and incredibly fast animations. Against weaker enemies that will die in 1 Throw/Wild Daggers it's even way faster than RW, but of course it can't compare to RW/SW's 550% damage on the 1st turn.

UltimateDoomKnight -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/2/2016 13:16:10)

The thing is with Baltael's Aventail is that it only makes the Soul Sync ability stronger and has no effect on the other SW abilities.
However, I'm quite certain that the Timekiller is the strongest tier 3 class in the game because of it's devastating effects like that 88 mph shot or the Thief of Time which deals 500% damage. When the 3:10 skill makes the other skills ready for use that's when the Timekiller gets really dangerous and strong because it is both offensive and defensive which is a very powerful combination. It can blind your foes BTH with -50%, it can lower your enemy's boost power with -20%, it has a powerful healing ability with only 9 in cooldown, it can stun your foe for three hits of a total 150% damage and it has two different shield abilities. It's definitely a class to have but unfortunately it seems to be no more of it to buy at the Hero Mart.

Solanaceae -> RE: =AK= All Classes Discussion Thread IX (1/2/2016 13:45:11)

Actually, Baltael's Aventail also doubles the damage of Valour Impact from 150% to 300%, and doubles Soul Aegis's duration and cooldown (2 and 3 to 4 and 6, respectively).

EDIT: Also, Sakurai, isn't Blood Womb a 2-turn effect, according to the wiki?

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