RE: Avoiding universal wars. (Full Version)

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Anvos -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/17/2015 16:38:45)

Actually the separation of AQ and DF is whether or not Erebus manages to replace the ShadowScythe Emperor/Overlord, the time booth in DF is merely a compounding issue and even at the time the quest came out we were told it wasn't the prime difference.

The Erebus/ShadowScythe issue while leaving the world largely the same since a lot of their plans were similar but with different end goals causes the DF Era to play out differently (such as the ultimate orb in aq's df is completed before Akriloth gets the fire orb) and in one the Final 13th war ends with Seppy dead, the west and Falconreach devastated, and Drakath turned into a darkness dragon bound to Erebus, and in the other we see a chain of events set off as a result of the cost of defeating the ShadowScythe Emperor/Overlord that leads to the Rose.

As for the thread I'd say the exact opposite that we should stay away from AQW's and let AQ3D be its own brand of the DF/AQ universe.



speedmeteor101 -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/17/2015 16:47:17)

Anvos, you need to comment more often. You always pinpoint the right idea.



LyRein -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/17/2015 16:56:26)

@Anvos

can i ask why you want it to be based off df/aq but not aqw?

you do know DF/AQ/AQW are all part of the same universe right....?

aqw is a mix of df aq and mq...

you seem really biased to DF tbh



speedmeteor101 -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/17/2015 19:54:32)

Yeah, I'd consider myself pretty biased to it tbh and idk if you're talking about Anvos, too. Personally if DF were an mmo with all the same classes, skills, functionality, and weren't turn based, it would crush aqw. The reason it couldn't be an mmo is because of the character size compared to the map size. Now if you take that idea of DF and put it to 3d there ya go. AQ did have some points where it may have been slightly better than DF but for the most part, I feel that AQc was the experimental single player and falls under DF. As for multiplayer AQW was an experimental combination of the two so it has many areas where i feel it it [more than others, but not generally] is flawed. AQ3D, if it takes after DF and AQc (which were like opposites that balance each other), would hopefully have learned enough about how mostly DF was best and it should be the role model. Artix even said something along those lines... that's why the 2012 AQ3D was so good. It had no mobile limitations and got complex models and such with a 10 (technically 9) skill palate. Now they are forced to be more creative, which is better for them, learning wise. Now they are forced to experiment less with functionality (or what they are aiming for).

AQW is honestly the worst of the 3 in terms of functionality... it is only good because it incorporated some of the major ideas of AQc and DF
The way it's made, it's too grindy and has practically no single player aspect

DF wins for all: functionality, art, and style, and story

AQc sometimes ran a little more smoothly because of its nice touch of simplicity.

That should answer wy we like DF.



Rezilia -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 4:07:39)

@Geo

What's with the links?

Most of us know how those things work. :)



Thade -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 6:00:10)

I think the point that Geo is trying to get across is that even in terms of what is "Established" regarding the multiverse, it's still one of those topics with plenty of different interpretations and implications.

Now, I have to be honest with you all, this whole business of timelines and alternate dimensions and Time Dragons and "This one staff member said one thing, but than this other staff member said some contradictory thing" and on and on and on is such an unwieldy, incomprehensible mess that if anyone tells me keeping track of this disaster is "Fun" I will promptly direct them to the nearest confessional booth or psychiatric ward.

Take it from someone who missed out on Galanoth giving Nozdormu some kind pan-dimensional noogie to tell you that annoying multiverse plot lines are very annoying. There's a reason why DC comics regularly do in house "Cleaning" of their multiverse through Crisis arcs where they basically go through and fix via either destroying the stuff that doesn't make any sense, or retconning plot holes into oblivion.

This reliance on multiverse and needlessly complicated chronological slight of hand is not a sign of good writing. That kind of nonsense is detrimental to any kind of work of fiction, and does a better job of alienating potential audience members, than it does engaging its fans. Look at the state of the comics industry now, or even media like Homestuck. Homestuck is such utter surreal nonsense that whatever joy I get out of the story is mitigated by the sheer masochistic act of reading it.

Can everyone please stop acting like we should be having some massive flame war over which game has the better story structure, because they're all fine, just bloated as hell. I guess you could technically say MQ has the most coherent story line because it had the grace of dyeing a simple hero before it could sustain enough weekly updates to become some disastrously convoluted villain. Let's let this game exists as its own work before we start going off on how they didn't get some aspects of some character or macguffin absolutely up to snuff when compared to it's portrayal in AQW or LyRein's fanfiction. I though this went without saying, but AE it pouring literally more time and money into this game than they ever have before. The company as a whole is literally riding on this game being good enough to tap both into veteran players and new players alike. Neither of those demographics care even the slightest about timeline nonsense, or about where the game falls on some axes between Dragon Fable and Adventure Quest.

This is a non-issue.



David the Wanderer -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 7:28:12)

Honestly, AE's Multiverse isn't nearly as messy as DC's or Marvel's. There are various timelines (games) which sometimes interact, but they are ultimately independent. To make an example, AQ states that the last Guardian Tower stands in Battleon, but in DF the last Guardian Tower is Falconreach's; or let's compare the DF Map and the AQW map, which place things like Oaklore Forest or Doomwood on the opposite ends of the continent. These informations collide only if you are somehow trying to make the AQ-verse and the DF-verse coincide, but the fact is, they don't: they are separate, and will have separate stories, histories and lore.

Personally, AQ3D should be its own timeline as well, not burdened down by any event of previous games. It must stand on its own, not as the sequel/prequel to any other game. Will it use AE's symbolic characters and places? Yes, but they will be new and free, and won't require you to play through AQ/DF/MQ/AQW to understand what's going on.



LyRein -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 11:03:33)

@above

To be fair they aren't exactly new in any way.
Just in 3D.

I mean it's pretty obvious the start will be us defending Swordhaven WITH ONE PALADIN against an army of not-so-scary very predictable and childish undead that are beaten in one hit.

then some guy called grimsbane comes in and wants to destory lore instead of seppy because reasons.



speedmeteor101 -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 12:29:37)

@LyRein

You are only (possibly really, not necessarily) right, if you look at it through the most broad overview.

And yes, the characters are the same to be fair. But not exactly the same "to be fair." :P Because it will be a different game with a different story, so the characters will develop differently (although the characters are the same). You even said yourself that the DF drakath is an underdeveloped version of AQW's Drakath proving that they are not exactly the same.

Now, just because the game starts in Battleon doesn't mean it will be an exact clone of AQW. (like the starting story and all) but I get you point that it will be another [are you implying this?] immature start, where the basic plot is the same. like it's two different versions of "the scream" [by da vinci]. You'll get my reference if you look it up on google images and see all the different color schemes and parodies.

We don't know anything about it; even cysero told us if anything comes back, it's subject to extreme change so on another level something could completely change. You seem to tend to think everything is aqw. Try not to, and take in consideration that this is a new game and that they know how not to copy exact ideas. So yeah, you know.



LyRein -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 12:35:19)

@above

Drakath remained the same personality, mind and physically. He was developed meaning before he was just whiny but now he's whiny with reasons. He got awesome powers and actually did something that DF Drakath never did.

quote:

Now, just because the game starts in Battleon doesn't mean it will be an exact clone of AQW. (like the starting story and all) but I get you point that it will be another [are you implying this?] immature start, where the basic plot is the same.


That's been kind of the AE thing now.
Predictable story that becomes worth playing near the end. If they do this for AQ3D no-one will remember the story later on.

quote:

You seem to tend to think everything is aqw. Try not to, and take in consideration that this is a new game and that they know how not to copy exact ideas. So yeah, you know.


I don't think of everything like AQW.
It's just everything we've seen so far points in that direction.



speedmeteor101 -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 13:43:28)

Nothing about the plot was revealed yet, so you can't say that was from aqw. Now functionality maybe. If anything the change in characters means you can't even just say they will replace others. So when I say you think of everything as AQW I am saying you are making too many definitive assumptions and that we know nothing yet. There are also places even on the kickstarter page from aq3dlol (2012) that aren't from other games and we have no idea how big of a role they will play. These are under the "Evolving world and Storyline" section on kickstarter. These concept drawings clearly reflect the settings from old AQ3D. floating islands place (is the place from the video in the link) and the other one resembles (almost exactly) a former beta testing location. Before, I think, these were going to have an even bigger role (sorry if i am talking too much about the old aq3d; the nostalgia is real). All battleon coming back means is that there will be some sense of familiarity with the other games.

So right now:

Functionality: AQW

UI: AQW
(above are kinda the same)

Locations: Currently Implemented: AQW / (merge of DF and AQc [which is basically the idea behind aqw, though it quickly broke out of that])
Future/ Based on DNs: Completely new layout/ (current implementations + aq3d 2012)

Story: Chars Currently Implemented: Protagonists- AE classics; Antagonists- none?
Future/ Based on DNs: New AQ3D villains, old villains w/ small side-quests or with a bigger role and different story than in another game

So what I'm saying is is that the plot is flexible and can do it's own thing. It will be like aqw in this sense: starts off with a small resemblance to other games then flies out on its own direction. That's how all their games have been. Idk how this is different. AQW pulled its first locations from aq and df, mixing and matching stuff up, then took DF's base plot (mostly because of char choice) and took it into a whole different direction.
AQ3D seems like it's about to do the same, except develop a completely new plot. SO it'll be brand spankin new. The system points in that direction. The story points in a new direction to say the least (though not a very clear one)..

But don't get me wrong, I see where you're coming from. I'm just saying I think you may be a little too far on one side.



Anvos -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 14:02:26)

@ LyRein

Not sure why your saying the game is leaning AQW and other than the multiplayer aspect I'm not sure where your getting it.

http://www.aq3d.com/about/

Right there is says AdventueQuest reboot not AQW's reboot, implying this game is more based on the AQ/DF world/universe state than AQW.



LyRein -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 14:43:25)

@above

only art-wise

story-wise is not confirmed

also can you please stop throwing aq/df in one universe and excluding aqw it really annoys me.

@speed

yes i understand u now

i just want this game to do well.

edit
those are from the old game that got cancelled and was not a reboot of anything



speedmeteor101 -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 15:06:00)

In effert to pitch in more evidence, let me add this: You can see here (most recent), and here (copied and pasted posts from artix.com put on G (scroll down to 2013 posts)) that artix always wanted AQ3D to feel like DF. Here's more: :P note most of this is cosmetics, but when he says feel it may be safe to assume he wants DF in plot, too as he barely mentions aqw in the old aq3d posts.

It was after the original AQ3D shut down that when AQ3D started to take after aqw with mobile limitations in mind. As their limitations dropped from PC to Mobile, the same happened here with dropping from Dragonfable-like to aqw like. Here and here [artix]. In these two links we see that Cysero and Artix are like RIP m8, AQ3D, and happy B-Day AQW 3D. This idea of aqw 3d and the name was short-lived as it moved back to the original name and the team saw the plans for the original piecing themselves together before their eyes. Artix even said he wanted to keep the old stuff; and if it wouldn't go over smoothly, it would just be rebuilt *and ho shows old concept art. Now, if you see that the AQW dominance in AQ3D was short-lived and surrounded by that dragonfable favorship before and after the renaming to AQW 3D. And even then, we don't hear about use of all three games until a few weeks prior to the livestream and it is implied that AQc and DF are more favored in all aspects. I'm sure if devs see this, the can correct where I may have been or was wrong, but I'm just laying out the evidence, and what I think it means. And tbh idk if the devs really even know what they want as this is how it's been with almost everything and them (besides artix) and that can be good. They can't be too certain anyways because these things are unpredictable; but it is apparent that a mostly 'DF 3d' aq3d may make the best aq3d. Hope others see where I'm coming from. And thanx guys. Recently we've even got dev's involved in these conversations so I find it good that we are actually etting answers. So yeah :)


EDIT: I typed this before I saw your reply @Ly but I think it also helps to explain where it may move past art as well. And the evidence he gave is actually from this version of AQ3D too. And ik we're constantly excluding aqw but it's because (i think with him too, at least) the single player games allow for much better story and gameplay. If the ideas from these 2 are taken into this MMO in small bits and pieces, it could improve a lot. Also can you read or skim my (part, if u want) of my gigantic first suggestion from the suggestions thread? It's been updated a lot and kinda goes in sync w/ what I'm telling you right now (or some parts of it do). Feedback would've been nice but I kept updating that one so noone saw it. Oh well, nice to know we're moving closer to the same page :D



Christophoses -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 17:09:18)

I completely agree on this. AQ3D should be nothing more than the future of AQW. Maybe the Eternal Dragon of Time could have a meltdown in AQW causing the creation of this new timeline. What makes AE games so good is that they are related.



LyRein -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 17:29:04)

quote:

What makes AE games so good is that they are related.


you have'nt been paying attention have u



speedmeteor101 -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (12/18/2015 17:33:10)

But the thing is is that the stories are not really related. The point is that it is a new game and won't be a continuation of anything. It can bite off of another story and they may share some characters and locations, but they are different. It has been this way with every one of their games and will continue to be. Artix also emphasizes this a lot.

LyRein got u @christophisis we were saying the opposite



brotherinlaw -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (1/9/2016 20:59:14)

Artix made each game a seperate, unique timeline with no direct effects on other timelines so as not to squelch the creative ability of each team. Dragonfable, Adventurequest, and Mechquest are all equally connected to aqw; they aren't. various core elements of the lore were fused in the creation of that universe, but that is IT. The staff, the WHOLE staff, have agreed on this, I can even get a quote from lead of the Dragonfable team Geopetal to back me up, from these very forums. Each piece of existing Lore is unique, being developed by unique teams of individual who ignore what the other teams are doing to let out their whole creative talent. Many pieces of the Lore from each game conflict, and no lore from another game should be treated as fact when using it to fill in the gaps of another game. That is for the writers to do.

As such, this game will be unique in it's own way, and may even follow the pattern of the second two games when they started: create various minor villains; include some minor villains from earlier games; then tie it all together with one big, major, Original villain who makes the story POP! Sepulchure may show up, he probably won't (to my disappointment.) If Mysterious stranger shows up, it will probably be to reprise his role from DF and MQ as a merchant selling extremely powerfull and expensive equipment. The main badguy will probably be an original creation made by the quirky games of.....

oh crap, Cysero, Dage, Artix, and Yergen are the brains behind this. We are so dead...

anyway, did I address everything, miss anything, or just open up a whole 'nother can of worms



speedmeteor101 -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (1/9/2016 22:05:18)

That that was the point, I at least, was trying to get across, and I'm glad you have even more evidence to back it up. Thanks for that thorough explanation![:D]



Anvos -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (1/9/2016 22:31:42)

There is a difference between different timeline and different universe, purely altering history doesn't change basics of the universe. Nobody I've seen is discussing AQ3D is saying it will be the same timeline as another game just in 3D but whether the preferred degree of separation is more akin AQ<->DF relation or MQ<->AQ.

AQ and DF as far we know never had an event that fundamentally changed the universe between them, but rather a core event of the past had 2 probabilities where neither could win out resulting in them each forming their own divergent timelines.

To me AQ3D from what we've heard so far really sounds like another AQ<->DF relation where whatever Grimsbane did involving he guardians in the past is what causes this timeline to divert from other LOREs rather than a Reset or Merging.



speedmeteor101 -> RE: Avoiding universal wars. (1/9/2016 23:12:53)

Uhh. Sure. We're not saying that the timelines don't use each other, we're just saying they don't effect each other as they are independent. I believe you are saying the same thing sooo yeah.



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