RE: The Mysterious Stranger (Full Version)

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LyRein -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 10:15:31)

quote:

Shape of the continent maybe but zoom in on Greenguard and you will see both Oaklore and the Sandsea for example are in entirely different parts of the continent in AQWs than they are in the AQ/DF and there is the whole Yoki and Shon'Nuff Islands both different in shape mind you occupy the same space if you compare the maps.


you can't say this as evidence it's a different continent because you do realize AQW is made after DF and so some places would be in different areas to fit the plot while also allowing old veteran areas to be in the game...?

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quote:

The MQ hourglass/timelineglass altered lore from AQ and DF's version its not really hatred of AQW but recognition it is its own thing unrelated to the other games outside crossover events and some similarities of characters and world themes. This is logical why it happened as well since LORE's nature is a composite of multiple prereset planets so putting some prereset stuff back in the mix should change things as they did.


can you show me where you got these facts?



David the Wanderer -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 10:34:19)

@LyRein: That doesn't change the fact that, for example, Swordhaven and Oaklore Forest are in the northern part of the continent in DF, and yet are at the very southern edge in AQW; same goes for places such as Doomwood or the Sandsea, which are in wildly different places between DF and AQW. I could understand moving a town, but how do you move a forest or a desert? You can't claim that large geographical features simply "move" across the planet.

It's not that they are different continents... They are different worlds. They share a rough shape, but the locations of places is entirely different; that's because AQW, being the result of three different timelines merging, exists on its own timeline and universe. Yes, DF and AQW happen on the "same continent", but these two continents are in alternate universes.



LyRein -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 10:37:16)

@above

already explained why

quote:

you can't say this as evidence it's a different continent because you do realize AQW is made after DF and so some places would be in different areas to fit the plot while also allowing old veteran areas to be in the game...?




David the Wanderer -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 10:39:42)

@LyRein: Please explain to me how, in-game, a whole desert changes its location. Again, it wouldn't be a problem if it were cities that changed location, but how does such an huge landmark move from one place to the other?



LyRein -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 10:41:34)

my god dude it's right there
quote:


some places would be in different areas to fit the plot while also allowing old veteran areas to be in the game...?



David the Wanderer -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 10:43:28)

@LyRein: That, at best, is an OOC justification. Again, there's no way that the Sandsea changed locations. Why is the idea of deserts and rivers and forests moving across the planet "better" than alternate universes sharing some similarities?



LyRein -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 10:46:01)

no it's obviously not on the same planet because of the merge thing but i was addressing Anvos not you who was trying to say it's not the same continent when it is and Artix said himself.

quote:

sharing some similarities?


more like a lot

quote:

That, at best, is an OOC justification.


right ok then your logic makes asking stuff like what is at the center of the Earth an OOC justification

also explain why the Sandsea can't move locations



speedmeteor101 -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 11:40:08)

The idea here should be that these are different games with different worlds and only share the same continent and locations because of the staff. The official answers from the top of the staff (like cysero/artix) is that the games are not related at all, though the general staff says U MAKE IT UP!!!

So the idea is it is the same continent, but the worlds are not the same. I think we got off of the original point and the argument shifted. What LyRein originally said was that he wants aq3d to explore the Western side of the map as aqw's story was based mostly in the southern portion, and DF's in the northern portion. He never said that the maps weren't put together differently, and as far as we know there is no definite answer about the timeline so we go with the idea that they are completely unrelated.

Personally I don't care what portion of the map AQ3D explores, I just wanna see some more areas and locations that we have never seen before. Some epic new art, you know.... I want that DF feel back, the kinda thing the old AQ3D was coming on to. It'd be nice if we escaped the dragon's head, too. I think what we all want is a world more expansive than ever before, and being in 3d, there is a lot of room for AE to grow with this.



LyRein -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 12:12:26)

@above

since we've explored 3/4 of Dragonia, the western parts are where you'll find new areas.

quote:

kinda thing the old AQ3D was coming on to. It'd be nice if we escaped the dragon's head, too.


in AQW we're heading to Drakonus

IIRC on the DF map there looked like there was a second continent too... is it a continent or a part of Dragonia?



speedmeteor101 -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 12:28:40)

idk I honestly haven't played much of the AE [2d] games in a couple (like 6 or 8) months now. So i don't really know how the maps are now. I was just saying how the plot is generally focused in the head. i wanna focus on the abdomen in aq3d and work on to the head. But that's definitely not gonna happen. I like our 'traditional' AE places but I wanna see some more more elaborate places. But not as much as aqw... aqw kinda left me behind at a certain point XD



Rezilia -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 13:11:55)

quote:

Again, there's no way that the Sandsea changed locations.


If you're using any maps at all as 100% certified geography, I'd suggest looking at these maps:

Pomponius Mela, 43 CE https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Karte_Pomponius_Mela_rotated.jpg/1024px-Karte_Pomponius_Mela_rotated.jpg

Martellus, 1490 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Martellus_world_map.jpg/150px-Martellus_world_map.jpg

Mercator, 1569 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Mercator_1569_world_map_composite.jpg

Google+NASA, 2016 http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/map/google_map_earth.htm


The notion that Lore's maps are accurate to their timelines is a large stretch. World maps are often based on the perceptions of the inhabitants. The staff made the maps however they were useful to the story, the same way that people make world maps relevant to their own experiences. It's highly possible that all timelines could have the same geography, just that the implementation of that geography onto maps was inaccurate.



speedmeteor101 -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 13:34:21)

Woah, hold your horses! It's not reality. Just accept that there are different stories timelines and maps. Remember that argument about the stories of the other games? Cysero cleared it up saying that they were just unrelated. i mean that's an interesting theory you got there, but i think that they're just, different stories, different maps (including the same continent), and different games. I think the story is what really made the maps. So I'm not saying it'd hypothetically be impossible for the sandsea to shift location (through tectonic plate shifting), I'm saying that it most-likely wouldn't have happened because they're unrelated.

But again, the idea here is new worlds we haven't seen before in AQ3D



LyRein -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 14:26:26)

@above

David and Anvos used real life to try to justify their arguments

CK used real life to justify hers

that is why we're using real life as examples.



speedmeteor101 -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 15:01:30)

Well then I was too slow to pick that up and I stand by the fact that we should not confuse a game with reality. It would be pretty cool to shoot magic balls from my hand the medieval era/ renaissance, but I'm afraid that just wouldn't be possible. And can we keep it to the facts that we were really trying to say that aq3d should have newer areas and not be irked by every single detail that we disagree on?



Anvos -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 16:15:14)

There is a large difference between just getting the shape and/or proportions wrong and saying the Sahara Desert is where say Russia should be. Ironically the argument your trying to use has already been used for the AQ to DF map differences but AQ doesn't suddenly make Fairglade farther east than Battleon.

Also the very fact that pretty much none of the world has been represented in 3D and even in the other games we've mostly stuck to the key locations in a region to the story says we don't have to go anywhere. Plus we've already seen in DF how new stories can occur in the same areas based on a different course of events.

Ironically this all sort of circles the Mysterious Stranger since the difference between AQ/DF is based on who wins the showdown between Erebus and the ShadowScythe Emperor/Overlord, which leads to the Orb Saga in DF playing out differently, while still having the same universe/world state. The difference between AQW and the rest is its 3 timelines(one of which is a different universe state) merged together meaning it is its own world/universe state.

What I advocate is that since we already know that the Mysterious Stranger can lead to radically different courses of events it seems the path of least resistance while still keeping the difference explainable by lore we can avoid further complications of throwing in a 3rd world/universe state into the mix by merely taking exit 3 for the Final 13th where (maybe due to whatever Grimsbane did in this one's past), the west is still in turmoil after the end, but the MS(whichever one was for AQ3D) still ended up destroyed, essentially split the difference between AQ and DF. Thus in a simple explanation we would have fulfilled the questions of why we/npcs still moved to Battleon and why the Devour saga didn't happen, and as a bonus LORE has been kept in a state where things are similar enough to stick with exploring LORE in 3d.

While the Mysterious Stranger is a core part of LORE's lore the first 3 games (AQ,DF,MQ) already explore the Shadow Scythe and both their machinations, it would be an interesting change to deal in this game with a world where they are a spectre of the past rather than an active agent.




speedmeteor101 -> RE: The Mysterious Stranger (1/4/2016 16:29:19)

Well written, I say. My only criticism to you is to forget the events of the other games and until the devs say anything about the plot, AQ3D has nothing to do with any of them. So until we get word of him, the mysterious stranger will probably have a clean slate if he comes into AQ3D.



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