Useless bots. (Full Version)

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racing.lo.mas -> Useless bots. (1/9/2016 12:14:37)

The next bots aren't useful as they were before or they were never good, so I think they need a buff. The bots are:
Assault bots
Botanical hazards
Azrael's borg
Lionhart bots
My suggestion is let those bots use the core after they already striked, and upside down.
Example, I'm BH and I used Smoke Screen, the opponent (TM) have used Matrix Defense. So in my next turn I use Heart Attack (the azrael's core) and after that I use a normal strike with azrael's borg.
This can be implemented with this bots because the cores dont deal any damage, so a player with this bot wont do a double attack. It's like how gamma bot worked back in gamma.
A focus 5 dont use one of this bots because if they use the core they will lose a strong atack (if it isnt the best one).
So if this is implemented those bots will be more seen in focus players.
All yeti bots and bunny bots need also a buff. Maybe this can also be added to this bots in spite of being able of doing damage with the core. Yeti dont do 100% with the core and if bunny bot was able to do double atack, it would make players use it. This last bot, right now, doesnt have any chance vs the Kartherax's Darkspawn: Bunny doesn't let the opponent strike, but let him use all skills with primary, while Kartherax's Darkspawn doesnt let players use any primary attack.



Mother1 -> RE: Useless bots. (1/9/2016 12:50:54)

You forgot the bio borg which uses a defensive ability that causes 50% damage to all opponents using melee attacks on you.

However with the Azreal borg and botanical hazard you would be getting a double attack. The botanical hazard gives you 30 damage with the attack before the poison and the azreal borg gives you 60% damage with it's sting. Not only this but both also give you rage and while the former gives you a little bit of rage it is still just that rage gain.

However the reason reason no one uses these bots is the following.

Assault bots: Debuffs aren't worth much anymore. Not only this but everyone now has shields that work better than this bot, but it doesn't cleanse the black abyss or hawk bot debuffs as well as it being a situation bot.

Azreal borg: There is now an aux that does the exact same thing as this robot. Even if the bot can use the special repeatedly the very fact that this aux exist means I can use another robot while still having the power of this robot in a aux. Not only this but unlike the assault bot which can take care of all skill tree debuffs and any other item debuff (minus robots of course) The Azreal borg doesn't work like this. Mineral, Plasma, and hybrid armors all have immunity to this move which makes this robot even less desirable. Not only this but the bot like the assault bot is a situation robot as well meaning doesn't have a universal purpose.

Loinhart bots: This bot is used more than the other 2 especially in 2 vs 2 seeing as it gives 50 rage to two players. However there are better bots out there so this one while used more by players in 2 vs 2 is still overlooked.

Botanical hazard: I actually see this one used by some players who like using double poison builds as a way to keep their opponents in a trap. It is also used in some long NPC battles so the match will go faster. Heck when I fought the GOW I was using this bot to help me. So while it may be rare for some people to use this bot it is far from useless seeing as it has more uses that the others.


But with the way the current meta is now that is the main reason why most bots aren't used. They specialize in one or two types of builds but leave players open to everything else where as Bots like Hawk bots, Black abyss bot, Pyro fly, and infernal android are universal and can be used against all builds to either

A) give extra damage for a few turns,

B) Possibly shutdown the opponent

C) Is a nuke.




SonicTbear -> RE: Useless bots. (1/9/2016 13:25:41)

quote:

Assault bots
Agreed.
quote:

Botanical hazards
Neutral. If you have a Focus 5 build (dumping the rest of your points into Technology optional) and a class with no Poisoning skill on top of that, then Poison Spores can take out a good amount of Health per turn. On top of that, if you DO have a Poison, it's gg.
quote:

Azrael's borg
I kept thinking about this. Can someone confirm if the buff de-buffers on the Azrael Bot and Aux stack with each other? If not, then it would most likely be useless.
quote:

Lionhart bots
With the release of the Hazmat Suit, I believe this combo of 50% rage gain + using all stacked up rage to heal can be pretty useful. But without the armor, not so much.
quote:

yeti bots
Useful depending on which guns/auxs the opponent has. Ex. Azrael's Anguish.
quote:

bunny bots
It's funny to paint the enemy. XD But colors and paint don't do NOTHING to the enemy, as in NO NERFS/DE-BUFFS, so agreed.
quote:

Kartherax's Darkspawn
Can be useful if combined with Azrael's Anguish. You don't need to even worry about it blocking since the fish doesn't do much damage. (Unless you have 31-?? health, in this case, if your opponent can do 31+ damage with the fish, you'll wanna block to bring the damage down to 30. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
quote:

bio borg
Unless you know for sure the opponent can take themselves out with this active and you use something like Azrael's Anguish, then it might not be useful in most situations. Again, someone please correct me on this if I'm wrong.



Mother1 -> RE: Useless bots. (1/9/2016 13:33:55)

@ Sonic bear

The aux and Azreal borgs moves do stack. meaning that you can take a combined 91% of a buff if used one after the other. (70% of the first debuff leaving 30% of it then the second one removes 70% of the 30 which is 21% of the original buff.)




racing.lo.mas -> RE: Useless bots. (1/9/2016 14:05:51)

@Mother1
Azrael's borg do damage with the core, yes, but it does a really low damage. Even it will do 30 if the buff you are taking is dex or defense.
With bh example, I used smoke and then i used azrael borg core (that is a p bot). the opponent will have a low defense but i had already used my bot, which is my stronger atack. The only think I can do after that is aux and maybe my primary core (if i have something P, but i wont be so strong). So why I would use my bot to lower his defense, if after all I dont have something strong to use? And the weak defense will just last 2 more turns.
Yes, I forget about bio borg. Also need a buff.
With this change assault both might work.
If you are bh and you use shadown arts, and then the opponent use any debuff, then you can just use assault both instead of wasting energy on other buff. And after that you will keep having your bot for attacking.
Lionhart can work in 2vs2, yeah, but being a focus you will lose ur best attack for rage.
If some of those bots are overpowered by dealing double atacks, then we can lower the core damage. The idea of this is leting player use the core and the attack.



The berserker killer -> RE: Useless bots. (1/9/2016 19:07:57)

I like the idea of the special not going back on cooldown with the bot. However Gamma Bot would be insanely OP. I mean 600 dmg p attack, 600 e attack the next turn, along with an aux of 580 and a burst damage skill. Generator and repeat since bot will cooldown by then



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Useless bots. (1/9/2016 21:08:17)

That how gamma bot worked. You could use normal attack and after that the core.
That's how I think those bots should work. (the bots I said before and bio borg)



The berserker killer -> RE: Useless bots. (1/9/2016 21:11:20)

Well I dont know really. But I can support it simply because it will simultaneously benefit everyone. I dont mind



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Useless bots. (1/10/2016 2:35:33)

quote:

I like the idea of the special not going back on cooldown with the bot. However Gamma Bot would be insanely OP. I mean 600 dmg p attack, 600 e attack the next turn, along with an aux of 580 and a burst damage skill. Generator and repeat since bot will cooldown by then


RIP the old gamma days of focus. I still remember when gamma bot special was blockable.

If you want the bots to be seen more in PvP just buff the effect of the specials and not do anything with cooldowns or whatever. Bots should be used by all builds, not just focus ones.




racing.lo.mas -> RE: Useless bots. (1/10/2016 11:28:09)

Any idea to buff all those cores?
Cooldown seems easier :P.



Mother1 -> RE: Useless bots. (1/10/2016 15:12:17)

Here are some ideas I can think off.

Azreal borg: Make heart attack affect mineral, plasma, and hybrid armor. Seriously When this robot first came out the masses brought it for the soul purpose of getting through those shields. When they learned that this bot wouldn't affect them people either sold it, or put it away for another bot.

Assault bot: (Doubt they will do this but) Make it where cleanse can counter the blood hawk and Black abyss specials. When most people use debuffs they use these rather than the standard ones because currently most shields won't protect you from their effects (Hybrid armor is the exception to the rule)




racing.lo.mas -> RE: Useless bots. (1/10/2016 21:09:43)

The problem of those bots its the high amount given by buffs. Why would you use the assault bot for lowering a malf if you can use energy shield that gives +200 and practically makes your opponent do 30 damage.
And is the same with azrael borg, why would you malf and then use the core when the opponent use a buff, if your damage will be slower than before you used malf.
I guess the core from these bots should be stronger than buff, so I think buff should be nerfed.

I support your idea of letting azrael borg to work with all buff.
I don't support assault bot working with blood hawk because it wouldnt have sence that it fix your armor. But I support it working with black abyss.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Useless bots. (1/10/2016 22:09:41)

The devs stated that they didn't want one bot to directly counter another, so it's unlikely that Assault Bot would be allowed to mitigate Black Abyss and Blood Hawk specials.

That being said, I see some interesting ideas here that are definitely worth considering. If Assault Bot's special deals 85% damage on top of its cleanse effect while being reusable, it'll definitely be much more useful for low-level characters. I also don't see why Azrael's Borg shouldn't affect %-based shields as well, and its special should also be changed to 85% damage. Not sure how Bio Borg should be buffed - maybe the opponent's melee attacks should deal 50% damage to both the opponent and the user when the special is used?

I don't think the rest are underpowered.



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Useless bots. (1/10/2016 23:06:24)

I find it interesting but I think it will have more sence if the damage deal was higher. The bot is supposed to give damage back, not to give damage back and also protect you. Instead of devolving 50%, maybe it can be 75%.
By the way, how would work your idea? suppose that a normal strike would do 100 damage on you, both will get 50 damage? Or the attacker will receive 25 and you 50?



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Useless bots. (1/10/2016 23:23:26)

^

50-50. I'm assuming that the attacker currently receives 50 damage and the defender 100 damage if the attack does 100 damage against the bot special. I don't actually know because I've never seen anyone actually use the special and live long enough for me to find out.



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Useless bots. (1/10/2016 23:37:52)

You are right, that's how it works.
Well I think your idea will work, and it's more creative than increasing the % returned.
So supported.



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