Growth Serum buff. (Full Version)

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racing.lo.mas -> Growth Serum buff. (1/29/2016 19:27:01)

If you dont know it, it's the core of a mutating primary. It increase your support by 30% for 3 turns.
Nobody has ever used this weapon, it clearly need a buff.

My suggestion is to reduce it to 20% and make it last 5 turns.
Its a good weapon for support, but you lose 1 turn increasing your support, and you will get just the advantage of using your aux 1 time and maybe your multy if your opponent dont take your energy.
With my suggestion you will get a bit less, but you will be able to use your aux and your multy/overload 2 times.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/29/2016 20:02:55)

I think the main problem with it aside from what you pointed out (which is that it takes a whole turn to cast) is that support itself is nowhere near a reliable stat and using the core will only buff 2 skill uses (aux and a support-scaling skill) in most cases and give the other RNG-based benefits of support. Another underlying problem with it is that support builds function by constantly applying pressure to the opponent and keeping their HP low. By going first and hitting very hard with an auxiliary attack on turn 1 (and for mercs a 2nd very hard hit with artillery strike) support builds can maintain their tempo in the battle but if instead they spend a whole turn just casting the buff they already throw away the main element of a support build that makes it so strong.

I like the idea of making the core last a lot longer, but with the % increase the core limits itself to high-support builds that kill themselves by spending a turn casting the core, as explained above. They should make it buff support by a flat amount scaling with level instead of scaling with base support, and then buff duration to 4-5 turns.

I have the mutating and I have tried several different builds with it and it just straight up doesn't work. Definitely needs buffs.



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/29/2016 21:27:28)

Alright, I guess the core should last 4 or 5 turns and give between 30% and 40%.

It's true that is a big problem to spend a turn just to increase your support, but if it gives a good amoun for many turns, it would be a good core.
If the core was as I said, a TLM for example would run in a support build with 1800-2000 hp build. They will lose some support points to get a high health, but it wont matter. You will get a lot of support.
Maybe a mercenary support with over 2000 hp, this core and BC will be good. High strength and support with lifesteal.



RageSoul -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/29/2016 21:56:46)

How about increasing it's cost and lowering the bonus but it lasts for an entire battle? It doesn't give Rage on cast ( it does affect it but only by rate , not current % ) , you have to sacrifice ausing Generator's HP/EP heal or Piston Punch's EP drain/gain , and no other side effects other than having higher SUPP stat also suffice it as well .



Mother1 -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/29/2016 21:59:26)

@ ragesoul

With the way the core is anyone who has the heart breaker aux or robot will destroy this buff seeing as it isn't immune to it. All I would need to do is use one of these two (if I have it) and boom all cores disabled and the effect is at best 30% effective, or even 9% if I used both one by one.



The berserker killer -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/29/2016 22:10:37)

The core should actually just be passive and increase support by 15%. That's fair and awesome



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/29/2016 23:46:37)

@RageSoul I thought that but seems op. Anyway, if you think it can work I would support it.

@Mother1 Is ok, all things have their weakness.
Omega Override takes 30% of your target's higest stat. It can be destroyed by assault bot, but it doesnt matter, stills being a good core.
By the way, no many players use the azrael borg or the azrael's annihilator. Prob if we buff this core, those weapons will also get buffed.

@Ghos God I dont think that can happen. Eternal Enhance, Support boost and this core can be extremly op.
Support will have 141+35+21(15%)+6+2. A total of 205 support without losing a turn for getting this ammount, and it can get higher with underdog mode lol.



The berserker killer -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/30/2016 0:14:12)

It really wont be op once you calculate the fact that theyre giving up defense and resistance since at 141 support you really cant make an evenly balanced and effective build.

In fact, having it as a passive core would be perfect and it's imperative that we think about this as a whole rather than the 1 or two build types that would abuse it (Don't let a few bad apples ruin the bunch). I mean support builds have many flaws. MANY flaws. To go through all of them right now would be extremely time consuming.

Sure, the % is debatable but given the fact that the core is only on class weapons which have fewer stats and damage than swords then it pretty much evens itself out.

Even with 205 support, in the scenario you mentioned, no matter what build you choose or make with 141 support you will die by nearly anyone after 6 rounds pass. I know this for a fact.

Rethink that. Changing this core to passive while at 10% minimum would actually be helpful for all build types. Preferably 15 so you get more bang for your buck by using a class weapon.



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/30/2016 0:45:02)

I dont know ghost. I feel this core should be more as a buff than a boost.
Even if its op or not, it will be practically the same.

By the way, the other buff would make different kinds of builds.

Anyway, I like more my idea but whatever. It just need a buff lol.



King Bling -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/30/2016 2:15:37)

supported TBK, that would help encourage more support builds in 1vs1 and 2vs2, since I rarely see 1 nowadays :/



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/30/2016 4:24:49)

There are a lot of supports build, they dont need another boost.



The berserker killer -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/30/2016 10:56:49)

Well it was just an idea haha sorry @King Bling. The idea here was that it could benefit all build types such as Focus too instead of just the stat spammers but, once again, we're allowing one or two bad apples ruin the bunch for the entire game when the 1 or 2 bad apples are quite easy to defeat.

Besides, this would be an awesome passive feature as your character would be permanently enlarged. So it'll look cool too. Once again the %s are up for change and I highly recommend that we just think rationally here.



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/30/2016 18:36:32)

Well that's true. My idea will just work with suport abusers, but.. This core was made to work for them.

Maybe as a passive it will work better for all, but is not likely to happen. I guess.
Anyway, we can discuss it, the %. Maybe 10%, that would be like 13 for suppport and for focus it will be 5.
With a higher % focus will have a big advantage.
But I dont like how it sounds, 2 support boost sounds strong. A f5 bh will get a big advantage with +13 support. (eternal core, supp boost and this new passive)
also will be a high buff to tm and bm since they just use an staff.
Also big buff to bh poison, the one with str and supp.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Growth Serum buff. (1/30/2016 22:28:56)

quote:

it could benefit all build types such as Focus too instead of just the stat spammers


It will always only benefit support builds instead of all types of builds as long as it remains as a %-based buff, which is why I suggested it to be changed to a flat value bonus that scales with something like level. It might actually be usable on some builds if it gets switched to a flat bonus instead.



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