Juggernaut fix. (Full Version)

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racing.lo.mas -> Juggernaut fix. (1/31/2016 4:24:11)

Juggeraut has been impossible to play for more than a year, why it wasnt fixed yet?
Now in juggernaut you face 2 players who are 6-10 lvls below you, but is practically fight 2 players a bit weakers than you.
Your defense is not as high to protect you from them. You can find supports with over 700, tech CH who can drain all your energy and dex/focus who has over 300 defense/resistance.
The solution is really simple, just reduce the lvls you will face for all players over lvl 35. There arent any difficult for players between 20 and 35 lvls, we can check it easily looking the juggernaut leadearboard. We just will find alts.
Players over level 35 should fight players with 14-10.



c1729 -> RE: Juggernaut fix. (1/31/2016 11:48:26)

Strongly Supported, I find juggernaut nearly impossible to win. However I suggest a percentage of the juggernaut's level +- 2.

Example, If a player is Level 20, then if we assume 65% of the juggernaut's level, that is level 13. So the juggernaut should face players in the level range of 11 to 15.
So, similarly a Level 40 player, will face players in the range of 24 to 28.

Another option is to bring back the old rule of giving the juggernaut two turns instead of one, appropriated with a different % of the juggernaut's level.



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Juggernaut fix. (1/31/2016 14:49:58)

Hm a percent of the juggernaut level can works. I would say 70% instead of 65%.

It will be like this:
-Juggernaut lvl 20: 12-16 instead of 10-16.
-Juggernaut lvl 21: 13-17 instead of 11-17.
-Juggernaut lvl 22: 13-17 instead of 12-18.
-Juggernaut lvl 23: 14-18 instead of 13-19.
-Juggernaut lvl 24: 15-19 instead of 14-20.
-Juggernaut lvl 25: 16-20 instead of 15-21.
-Juggernaut lvl 26: 16-20 instead of 16-22.
-Juggernaut lvl 27: 17-21 instead of 17-23.
-Juggernaut lvl 28: 18-22 instead of 18-24.
-Juggernaut lvl 29: 18-22 instead of 19-25.
-Juggernaut lvl 30: 19-23 instead of 20-26.
-Juggernaut lvl 31: 20-22 instead of 21-27.
-Juggernaut lvl 32: 20-24 instead of 22-28.
-Juggernaut lvl 33: 21-24 instead of 23-29.
-Juggernaut lvl 34: 22-26 instead of 24-30.
-Juggernaut lvl 35: 23-27 instead of 25-31.
-Juggernaut lvl 36: 23-27 instead of 26-32.
-Juggernaut lvl 37: 24-28 instead of 27-33.
-Juggernaut lvl 38: 25-29 instead of 28-34.
-Juggernaut lvl 39: 25-29 instead of 29-35.
-Juggernaut lvl 40: 26-30 instead of 30-36.

Those are the numbers for all levels. I think its perfect, we can see a good difference for high levels.
As a low level, jugg will be a bit harder and I find it ok. There are a lot of alts in juggernaut because they win most of fights in a nice time.
So make it hard for low levels and easier for high levels its great.
I would like to know what you think about it. If there is something wrong or if we should change something in the suggestion.



shadow.bane -> RE: Juggernaut fix. (2/4/2016 17:04:44)

^ highly supported



The berserker killer -> RE: Juggernaut fix. (2/4/2016 19:49:33)

Tbqh Jugg isn't completely impossible. Its just extremely difficult, as it really should be. I feel like the majority of Level 40s want Juggernaut to be a walk in the park and blatantly farmable (like how it used to be). I support a change in the levels that we fight at lvl 40, but I think an easier fix and a more meaningful one is to just implement more legendary stats that can be used specifically for a battle mode.

I mean lets be honest here. That's really how we should go about fixing balance as opposed to making things universally easier. So what do I mean? Well upon clicking legendary mode it will open up a window with 3 tabs that you can click. You can click 1v1/2v2/or 2v1. Now, from there, you can apply your legendary stats however you please with a slight change to whichever mode that you picked/chosen.

Lets go into depth, shall we.

For 1v1 we currently have: Primary +30, Aux+40, Defense+30, Resistance+30, Sidearm+40, Robot+40, Energy efficiency+10, Medical Mastery+20.

For 2v2 though we could have different legendary stats (whatever they choose).

And for 2v1 we could have different legendary stats too.

Each legendary point implemented will only work for that mode. Meaning that I can put half my slots in 1v1 and 2v2 legendary mode, but 2v2 legendary mode wont work in 1v1 and 1v1 wont work in 2v2. This way underdog cant get affected. Now if you have all your legendary points in 2v2 legendary mode and then 1v1, well that's just your fault. You should change your stats back. Now yes that does mean you will have to buy more slots. But it also means an easier and faster way to balance out 2v2 and jug fairly without radically affecting their difficultys.



racing.lo.mas -> RE: Juggernaut fix. (2/4/2016 21:03:20)

With your suggestion we will allow botters to have a big advantage is juggeranut, and thats not fair.
A few botters will be able to play juggernaut. I wont support that.
You will give another reason to bot:
You dont get banned, you have advantages in pvps, you get achievements, you get credits and now you can do juggernaut.

And huh.. now that I think it, I am less sure about it (I thought that I would support it if you couldnt rank up with npc, but I changed my mind). All should be able to play jugg. Even if you were a rank 1, you should have a chance.
Moreover your idea is just works for level 40s. What would happen to levels between 30 to 39? They wont have any chance.

If you want to make 1 legendary mode for each mode (1v1, 2v2 and jugg) is ok, I like it as a new thing in game. But I dont like it to improve juggernaut.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Juggernaut fix. (2/4/2016 23:24:36)

Problems with juggernaut happened after lvl 35+. (And Omega update)

The issue is a little more complex than just level ranges.
Juggernaut is more unique than the other modes because there's never been a true gauge for measuring the balance aside from win ratios.
With 1v1 and 2v2 its easier because its simply player/s vs an equal amount of players.

This is what prompted one of my solution (Long time ago, prior to Omega update) to be about doing away with Level ranges and switch to a Combat Rating method.
Combat Rating would be statistically quantifying how strong a player is.
So all the levels you have, all the gear you have gives you a certain combat rating.
You then had a CR range of 80%-120%.
So if your CR was 1000, your opponents would be between 800-1200 CR. (Just example numbers)

The reason why this would work better is that it takes gear into account.
So for example, you're lvl 35 but you could still fight someone OVER 5 levels lower if they're still within the CR range. (So if you got a lvl 29, it means he has good gear, and would be a bigger opponent than a lvl 30 with no gear.)

This would work very well for balancing the match making range in 2v2 and juggernaut.
Juggernaut more so because statistically speaking, the juggernaut has no chance against 2 players that are only 5 levels lower and are fully gear.

This is because the juggernaut's 5 levels and superior gear isn't enough to account for the 2nd player. It'll be better than 1, but its a long way from being better than 2.
When I made the combat ratings idea, I said juggernaut would get worse with level increases, and it did. The stats are just there.

As levels increase, the advantage juggernaut has over enemy continues to diminish (This happens in all modes, not just juggernaut).
This is because 34/29 is not the same as 40/35.

And the removal of passives didn't help at all.
Now you have to spend a turn to use a passive. If you enemies go first in juggernaut, and your build relies on passive use, that's already a 4 turn disadvantage before you can use attacks.



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