RETHINK Item Fusion (Full Version)

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Vypie -> RETHINK Item Fusion (6/26/2016 18:54:51)

Item fusing basically means you will merge two items, where the resulting item has the stats of one and the looks of the other.

This creates so many problems I could extensively write about, but it all comes down to items being destroyed in the process.
Also, people WILL accidentally make mistakes or fuse the wrong way they wanted. You can't go back. You can't chose a different combination later, you can't have multiple cosmetic sets for your best stats gear.

This limits creativity SO MUCH, and creates tireless grinding for repeats of items!


FORTUNATELY there's a better alternative, and way more simple too :)

1)
Armor slots: First we would have to implement some kind of window that shows the armor you have equipped. (like 98% of any RPGs) This also improves armor managing in general.

2)
Cosmetic armor slots: If you click on a button in the corner of the equipment window, you can toggle between normal armor slots, or Visual armor slots.
So one window for the stats, and one window for the looks.
If you equip a helmet on a visual-only slot, it replaces the looks of the helmet underneath, but keeps the stats.

PROS:
-You can control way more freely how you want your character to look like, allows for experimentation, mixing and swapping without fear of mistakes or endless grindings.
-It makes each item worth a LOT more, because it will never be lost, and can always be used in the future for more combinations and choices.
-Keeps things simple. Items stay like they are originally. We don't need the confusion of having infinite merging possibilities and over 9000 mutated items floating around with messy stats. And if you want to show off one item to a friend or inspect someone, you will be able to show/see the original items.
-Makes it possible to have multiple visual looks for you to change around, attached freely to your single best stats gear set.

CONS:
Is there any?

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But AQ3D has to make money somewhere, and maybe it would be a good idea to pay a fee every time you want to make changes to cosmetic items (adding or swapping cosmetic items).
You should have the ability to save like 4 cosmetic item sets, though. (So you don't have to pay loads of gold just to swap between established favorite combinations).

Now for REAL currency, the gems, you could sell:
-The ability to save MORE different sets of armor.
-Cosmetic-only made items (they would look stunning but have no stats)

___________________________________________________________________________

(For inspiration, check the free mmo 'WildStar'. They even have armor tinting, too.)



ShadowMoon -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/26/2016 21:03:02)

honestly, i'd like to be able to merge two items together and keep the appearances of both. an example of what i mean is in aqw's 13 lords of chaos finale where the cut scenes show your character with Eternal Death Wings & what ever cape your wearing.
also what your suggesting will most likely have the draw back of the changes only appearing to you alone



Vypie -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 2:23:21)

I don't see how implementing cosmetic item slots has the drawback of it (ironically) not working. I mean, its certainly possible, other games have done it, and its not even a far-fetched concept.



Ninjaty -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 3:56:55)

I still think I prefer the Item Fusion solution. Destroying one item to enhance another isn't all that unusual in fiction, and will in my opinion be very interesting to see as a game mechanic. This also forces people to think much more carefully about which role they want to play, and then fuse their items accordingly. This game is meant for a more mature audience the others, so having to deal with more permanent individual choices and then deal with the resulting consequences, may very well end up being part of the fun, and may certainly allow the world to feel much more real.

Do not get me wrong, I still like your idea, and under normal circumstances I would have jumped right in there with you. But for this instance, I feel like Item Fusion has the potential to be much more powerful, in terms of giving players control choices that permanently affect their items' destinies. Not only will this have an effect on gameplay, but it will have an effect on the players as well.



Vypie -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 6:41:08)

I think you might be getting the wrong idea about item fusion.

Its PURELY a cosmetic thing. It doesn't affect or change gameplay, it doesn't mix stats, and the resulting item isn't more powerful than the stats you chose to keep.

The goal is to simply be able to choose how your character looks, regardless of the stats.
When you make a feature for a game, you don't want to add unnecessary, unfun complexity to it. Why not just make it the most fun and exiting as possible?

And what if you want to play multiple classes? Maybe you want to be able to swap between a wizard look or assassin clothing. With item fusion, that is not possible.
Limiting is not fun, for a feature which the intention is simply to give players CHOICE in how they look.

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Also, it would be super cool to have non-visible items, like 'Ghoslty Helmet', 'Invisible Cape', 'Anti-theft belt' (or other more clever names).
These items would show no 3d Model, allowing you to look like you have no Helmets, capes etc, if you equip them in a cosmetic clot.

Personally, I don't usually like capes, and certain looks just seem better without a helmet, so it would be nice to have that too without compromising stats.



LouisCyphere -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 8:15:25)

quote:

Item fusing basically means you will merge two items, where the resulting item has the stats of one and the looks of the other.


Wouldn't we get a Transmogrification feature?

quote:

Cosmetic armor slots


If we have this feature, transmogrification would be meaningless since we can cover up a good weapon with a weapon with better appearance.
For example, covering Zed Sword with Soul Borne Axe.

As for Cons, we would need a larger inventory to cover up sets with good stats and a set for cosmetic. And if we have cosmetic armor and weapon slots, cosmetic weapons should override the original weapon's animation. I'm not familiar with coding, but it might be a con of this feature.



Ninjaty -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 8:18:15)

quote:

I think you might be getting the wrong idea about item fusion.

Its PURELY a cosmetic thing. It doesn't affect or change gameplay, it doesn't mix stats, and the resulting item isn't more powerful than the stats you chose to keep.

The goal is to simply be able to choose how your character looks, regardless of the stats.
When you make a feature for a game, you don't want to add unnecessary, unfun complexity to it. Why not just make it the most fun and exiting as possible?

And what if you want to play multiple classes? Maybe you want to be able to swap between a wizard look or assassin clothing. With item fusion, that is not possible.
Limiting is not fun, for a feature which the intention is simply to give players CHOICE in how they look.

_______________________________

Also, it would be super cool to have non-visible items, like 'Ghoslty Helmet', 'Invisible Cape', 'Anti-theft belt' (or other more clever names).
These items would show no 3d Model, allowing you to look like you have no Helmets, capes etc, if you equip them in a cosmetic clot.

Personally, I don't usually like capes, and certain looks just seem better without a helmet, so it would be nice to have that too without compromising stats.

I understand perfectly well how item fusion is intended to work, and I really do feel it adds something special to the game. You can still multi-class if you want to, you just have to specifically designate certain items to each class, that's all.

As per your own point, it is not just a cosmetic thing. You actually sacrifice one item to alter the other one's stats. Hence, if you do this with two items you can't get back anymore, or if they were incredibly difficult / time consuming to obtain, then you will have to think extra hard about whether or not to do it at all. This is a realistic portrayal of how you cannot always have everything you want in real life either, so you often have to choose what you want the most, while possibly sacrificing something in the process.

Since this game is geared towards an older audience, having to deal with choices like this, would be very appropriate. Will you sacrifice the item you spent a month obtaining, just to enhance your favorite item? If so, will you do the quest for it again, or simply accept that it is gone? With these choices, we can be the architects of our own suffering and happiness, depending on how well we make our choices.

So it's not like you won't get the choice on how to look. It's simply that you will have to consider whether or not looking like that is worth it, and live with the consequences of your actions. Most items you can always just get a second copy of, so it's really just items that drop from non-repeatable quests that you won't be able to regain.



I'm looking forward to Item Fusion, as I feel it will add a whole new layer to how the game is played, and how people will approach it. From a lore perspective, the idea that our characters can combine items it also extremely useful and powerful. Depending on whether or not item trading or auctions become a thing in AQ3D, it could also be very interesting to see people swapping items with different stat combinations, potentially making every single item in the game unique to their original owners, as sort of a signature.



HeroKae -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 10:18:50)

So if item fusion will work similar to crafting (you will lose one of the items in the process), people will need to be more careful about what items to use, but this will be not different than be careful about what items you shouldn't sell to npcs. The only problem i see is if we can easily get unlimited amounts of powerful items, like capestarter (if we will be able to access the shop forever), people may abuse this, specially if trading be implemented in the future.



Vypie -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 13:38:49)

quote:

As for Cons, we would need a larger inventory to cover up sets with good stats and a set for cosmetic. And if we have cosmetic armor and weapon slots, cosmetic weapons should override the original weapon's animation. I'm not familiar with coding, but it might be a con of this feature.

The inventory is a major problem as it is, and it would need a big rework for any scenario. But having equipment windows to put items FROM the inventory could help a bit.
Cosmetic weapons, in games that use this feature, usually only let you alter the appearance of a sword to that of another sword. In the case of AQ3D, I believe all the weapons use the same animations. It's the skills that change animation-wise. You still throw spells the same way even when using a dagger. So I guess in this game that would't be a problem, because right now, it's not. :)

quote:

I understand perfectly well how item fusion is intended to work, and I really do feel it adds something special to the game. You can still multi-class if you want to, you just have to specifically designate certain items to each class, that's all.

As per your own point, it is not just a cosmetic thing. You actually sacrifice one item to alter the other one's stats. Hence, if you do this with two items you can't get back anymore, or if they were incredibly difficult / time consuming to obtain, then you will have to think extra hard about whether or not to do it at all. This is a realistic portrayal of how you cannot always have everything you want in real life either, so you often have to choose what you want the most, while possibly sacrificing something in the process.

Since this game is geared towards an older audience, having to deal with choices like this, would be very appropriate. Will you sacrifice the item you spent a month obtaining, just to enhance your favorite item? If so, will you do the quest for it again, or simply accept that it is gone? With these choices, we can be the architects of our own suffering and happiness, depending on how well we make our choices.

So it's not like you won't get the choice on how to look. It's simply that you will have to consider whether or not looking like that is worth it, and live with the consequences of your actions. Most items you can always just get a second copy of, so it's really just items that drop from non-repeatable quests that you won't be able to regain.



I'm looking forward to Item Fusion, as I feel it will add a whole new layer to how the game is played, and how people will approach it. From a lore perspective, the idea that our characters can combine items it also extremely useful and powerful. Depending on whether or not item trading or auctions become a thing in AQ3D, it could also be very interesting to see people swapping items with different stat combinations, potentially making every single item in the game unique to their original owners, as sort of a signature.

Okay I see your point more clearly now.
I'm totally about adding decision making and depth to a game. I am always careful with the choices I make, where I spend my currency. I feel its a good thing to have.
But not here.
These types of decisions should aim to make the game MORE interesting, MORE layered, on things where it really matters. It should only serve to make the gameplay experience even better. Things like upgrades, crafting, character growth, skills, etc.

Applying that to a cosmetic feature ruins the fun of it. Limits the player choice immensely, and adds NO DEPTH to gameplay itself. Only a hassle of walls, waste of time, frustration, unnecessary LOSS, and choices you shouldn't have to take.
Its just not good game design! :(
A feature should strive to be the BEST for its players for what it is intended. The point here is:
-Players want to look cool in their favorite gear.
-Players want to be able to experiment around to find new stylish combinations.
-Players want to HAVE FUN while doing it. Give them that.

But this would suck the fun out of it. It would add unnecessary trouble and not at all optimal decisions you could regret later on as new items are released.
Imagine finding a super cool epic helmet. It looks awesome, and has the stats you want. You still want to keep it for looks, but you have a favorite helmet you would rather have for show. Now, do you farm the item two times so that both helmets have the stats you want? What happens when you get a newer item with even best stats? Do you farm 6 of those new helmets for each of your 6 cool looking helmets? DO you want to do that for the rest of your gear too? Repeat everytime a new upgrade is released? Or do you leave your beautiful looking sets to ROT with their petty stats?
What about items you can only get 1 of? Where is the fun in that?

That is not "mature". Its an unnecessary waste of LIFE-TIME for something which SOLE PURPOSE is to look cool/stylish/beautiful. This game is meant to play on short bursts, on the go, etc. Most adults don't even have time to farm in a game that is already three times more grindy than it should be. It doesn't add depth to the game itself.
DEPTH is about having more possibilities, not LESS. Consequences should matter on the gameplay itself, on if your character becomes weaker or stronger, If you chose the best stats for your play-style, and how efficiently you invest time into growing your character.
I know I would make the good choices, But I also know many players WONT. And there will be outcries for regretting lost items, accidental mistakes, and boring repeated grinding. And players will complain, instead of finding it exciting, diverse and intuitive.
People change their mind all the time about what they want. Do not lock them from choices.

General rule: Don't add frustrating elements if possible. If you can make it better, more intuitive, fun for the player experience, that's where you win.
I know I'm repeating myself, but its a point I think its not getting across enough.

Lets add those layers and depth somewhere else where it really matters, okay? :)

If you want players to work for it, Just make it so you must pay a small fee to use the feature. With this, players can grind money while doing OTHER things, instead of repeating the same dungeon 74 times.
It would make players stay because the game is interesting (and not boring/punishing), and collecting armor that is PERMANENT (and can be mixed freely) sounds a lot more exciting.

quote:

As per your own point, it is not just a cosmetic thing. You actually sacrifice one item to alter the other one's stats.

Its still just a cosmetic thing. You are giving a new look to your existing armor. You are not changing your gameplay or adding power.

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Regarding trading, if item fusion creates an entirely new piece of armor, It would ONLY add to confusion between players. Do not forget it would also add thousands of different new items to the game, and that could be heavy.



Ninjaty -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 16:20:06)

@Vypie: I guess we just have too different views on this, because I feel this adds to the fun, adds to the experience, and adds to the player's choices. I don't feel it will be frustrating or subtract from the fun at all. There is nothing that is universally fun; everyone has their own idea about what is and isn't funny for them. Some find homework fun while others hate it, some love farming while others hate it. Just because you do not think it is fun, doesn't mean others will agree.

Over the last few years, I have gone from hating farming to loving it. I have come to find it relaxing killing the same monster over and over, trying to get a specific drop.

Some people will find Item Fusion fun. Some people will even find it rewarding. You make it sound as if none will enjoy it.

All the friends I have talked into playing are looking forward to the feature, and so are some of the people I have asked in-game. We all look for different things in the games we play, and this is one of the unique twists (at least in terms of AE games) that I am very much looking forward to. It will be something new and interesting we haven't seen before, yet similar in function to what DF and AQW have done in their own ways.

It's also important to remember that you do not need to boost all your items with the most powerful items in the game. You could settle for something slightly less powerful (and thus easier to obtain) for some of your items, while reserving the most powerful for your favorites. That way you only need to re-quest for items if you really want to.



As for this point: "Its still just a cosmetic thing. You are giving a new look to your existing armor. You are not changing your gameplay or adding power.", it is only a solely cosmetic feature if you deliberately remove the whole fusion part. As long as you need to give an item up, it becomes something more, where you need to think ahead of your decision, and decide how best to spend your resources. The cost is part of the feature, and part of what it has to offer. Just like in real life, more important decisions becomes part of your life as you grow up. Since this will be the "grown-up" AE game, being able to make choices with good and bad outcomes really does feel like a natural extension of the gameplay.



Evangel -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 16:56:23)

There are multiple ways to help stop people from accidentally fusing items they don't want to fuse. For example, 1) Multiple confirmation prompts. (Make the player second-guess their fusing decision) and 2) a "Lock" toggle on items you don't want to fuse, making them impossible to fuse unless you "unlock" them. (Destiny does it and it works fine.)

Plus there's drop rates. Seeing Artix's idea to make Gold more scarce but more valuable, drop rates of items and the rate you'd earn loot and craft items would cut back the grind.

Make it a little easier to earn the items you want, so you have more items with the stats you want to fuse into the items you find more visually appealing.

I'll agree that a visual U.I. for what equipment you have equipped is a good idea, but seeing as the game is primarily geared towards mobile, I doubt it'll happen. But adding a "visual" panel seems unnecessarily complicated and basically doubles the amount of content is taking up your inventory.



ShadowMoon -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/27/2016 21:37:10)

wouldn't it be better to have like a defusion mechanic? the way i see it, it supposed to work kind of like fusion cards in yugioh only with some stat manipulation aspects
quote:

Its PURELY a cosmetic thing. It doesn't affect or change gameplay, it doesn't mix stats, and the resulting item isn't more powerful than the stats you chose to keep.


quote:

Yergen, Zhoom and I have also been working on early concepts for AQ3D's crafting system. AQ3D will be HEAVILY crafting oriented (this will be how you get most of your items and classes) and it's great to finally start seeing that come together past the planning stages.

-Dungeons & Intros Cysero
item fusion is pretty much the crafting system
look at whats needed for the craft shop items, it's the materials needed for the item
the Tegmina Cloak which looks like a bugs back requires

Silver Pendant x1
Pristine Carapace x1
Chitinous Shell x10
Cotton Thread x5
Glue x2
5,000 Gold
Pristine Carapace is the top part of the cape
5 Chitinous Shells go into each wing
the Silver Pendant keeps it on
the Cotton Threads & Glue patch it all together
and the 5000G is the cost of service.



orc orc orc -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/28/2016 4:30:43)

Right now item fusion feels like a glorified 'show' button from DF. It's not a bad thing though so long as it's simple. There are items in the game that look cool but have bad stats so item fusion gives us an opportunity to look what we want while keeping the best build.



Vypie -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/28/2016 4:44:17)

@Ninjaty
Its true, some people will find it fun like that. I don't disagree. But when making a game, we should try to make a feature that is fun to most, not un-fun to some. And those two are different.

Why not make something that works for everyone? If you have to sacrifice combat stats for something which purpose is simply cosmetic, then many players wont bother about it, specially if they will will have to, at least, double their efforts and grinding (and inventory space).
Why not make those important decisions where is matters for your gameplay instead? What you seem to want is a certain player behavior that can be accomplished with other parts of the game.
I don't think its a good idea to make this feature a niche used fully by only some people.

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@Evangel
If you are managing your inventory you don't really need to see your character. There's plenty of available space, and it doesn't even have to be large. By clicking on a button, the window appears to the left, and you still see your inventory.
I will try doing an example with a screenshot soon, you will see its not even complex-looking. :)

_________________
@ShadowMoon
Crafting is not Item fusion at all, but I could imagine them using the same mechanics. Item A and B make Item C.

MAYBE,
A solution to all of this, still using the same mechanics, could be to not even lose the items in the process. The resulting item would sell for no money and is not tradable.
(but this doesn't solve any inventory space problems)



ShadowMoon -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/28/2016 7:04:31)

thats why i said defusion & made the comparison to yugioh
with yugioh you send two or more monster to the graveyard to make a fusion monster with polymerization
the spell card de-fusion puts the fusion monster back into the extra/fusion deck & brings back the monsters used as materials.
by applying something like this to the system it makes it so you can fuse as you like, defuse, mix & match and experiment. also with the art merging thing there should be an option to keep the spare parts of the artwork in something like how badges are stored in nintendo badge arcade.
also, being able to mix & match artwork would allow the creative to spread their edited works around to be used &/or personalized by other.
obviously permanent rare items should not be allowed to fuse



Ninjaty -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/28/2016 9:01:55)

@ShadowMoon: Why should permanent rares not be allowed to fuse? If people want to enhance their rare, or use their rare to enhance something else, why should they be denied that option?

quote:

What you seem to want is a certain player behavior that can be accomplished with other parts of the game.

Not really, what I would like is simply a very neat feature that the staff themselves announced. And again, people will not have to put more effort into using this feature than they want.
quote:

Its true, some people will find it fun like that. I don't disagree. But when making a game, we should try to make a feature that is fun to most, not un-fun to some. And those two are different.

There will always be things that not everyone finds fun, and there will always be things that some people dislike.

Not everyone will enjoy elements being a thing, not everyone will enjoy having to play with other people, not everyone will enjoy most of the game items being craftable or quest rewards. These things all appeal to certain people, which is why the staff wants to add them. According to you though, none of these things should be added, since not absolutely everyone will enjoy them.

Everyone will disagree with something, everyone will find something to dislike.

Regardless of how making items ever useful is going to be implemented, it will never please everyone. Now that Item Fusion has been suggested, there will be people who will dislike the alternative, simply because they'd prefer what the staff originally announced.



Vypie -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/28/2016 15:19:07)

quote:

According to you though, none of these things should be added, since not absolutely everyone will enjoy them.

Not at all, its just that the alternative brings everything to everyone, and doesn't make it a thing for almost only dedicated players.

quote:

And again, people will not have to put more effort into using this feature than they want.

Hey, that's not true! :<
Players will want to be able to fully use the feature, but many CAN'T either because they don't have the time, or would rather quit because the game requires you to tediously farm the same item if you just want to vary your looks from time to time.

It doesn't make sense to exclude the players that don't want to invest so much time/effort, when the alternative extends it to EVERYONE, even players just trying out the game.
If you can appeal to a larger number of players, do it! Seriously, its core of game design. :)

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Okay, you may say that the alternative solution will be un-fun for some players, and I have to ask, why?
This alternative brings the joy of collecting, experimenting, trying out new looks if bored (with no downsides!), and explores the feature at its possible MAXIMUM, there's no enforced limits that could just not be there.

And with an equipment window that shows the true, original items, you can show off what you got, inspect other players to learn which item is which. For example, if you are interested in that cool looking cape, you can see its original name/level/etc.
On the other hand, with the classic "item fusion", you won't be able to know what is what.

_______________________________

If they want players to grind and feel compelled, immersed, enjoyed by the depth and complexity of the game, make it on stuff that matter on the gameplay side. Stats, upgrades, Abilities, Classes, gold, etc. These types of stuff.



ShadowMoon -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/28/2016 19:00:12)

quote:

@ShadowMoon: Why should permanent rares not be allowed to fuse? If people want to enhance their rare, or use their rare to enhance something else, why should they be denied that option?

depends upon if we will be allowed to trade permanent rares or not.



David the Wanderer -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/29/2016 7:08:10)

@ShadowMoon: Why shouldn't we be allowed to trade permarares?



ShadowMoon -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/29/2016 13:40:25)

depends on which type of permarare it is.
do you want people able to trade their shadow wolf paws or alpha knight armours? ones a kick starter item the other can essentially be generated an unlimited number of times.
i might want a shadow wolf paw & to be able to spread the alpha knight armour around, but i'm not sure everyone else will want that, not to mention the whole exclusiveness thing.
on the other hand if it's a normal type of rare that isn't bound to special offer, then it should be tradeable.



Ninjaty -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/30/2016 7:52:31)

Well, of course those bound to a shop like that should be excluded to avoid infinite replication. I just understood what you said as all perma rares, even those not bound to a shop like that.

quote:

Okay, you may say that the alternative solution will be un-fun for some players, and I have to ask, why?
This alternative brings the joy of collecting, experimenting, trying out new looks if bored (with no downsides!), and explores the feature at its possible MAXIMUM, there's no enforced limits that could just not be there.

And with an equipment window that shows the true, original items, you can show off what you got, inspect other players to learn which item is which. For example, if you are interested in that cool looking cape, you can see its original name/level/etc.
On the other hand, with the classic "item fusion", you won't be able to know what is what.

Different people have different tastes and preferences. I can't tell you why other people might like Item Fusion, but I can give you a few of my reasons:

1. By having to pay something for it, namely an item to spent on enhancing another, you actually earn it, which will then feel rewarding when you upgrade. This adds more value to the feature than if it was simply handed to you, as your brain is hardwired to appreciate things you work for.

2. It adds to the incentive to play the game, as you will likely want your favorite items to be strong, meaning you're more likely to dedicate time to play more, than you would if you didn't have this goal.

3. It makes you think more about which items are worth going for, and makes the choice to show your favorite equipment mean more. The more you have to lose or gain, the more important the decision becomes, and thus, the more engaged you are likely to become in it.

4. And again, I feel it adds depth to the experience of having more choices that influence how you spend your time playing, which is fitting for the more mature players. As we grow up, our choices starts to have more consequences. Taking more decisions that used to be harmless and putting proper consideration on them is, in my opinion, a nice way to reflect that. For instance, when you were a kid, you could easily decide to play most of the time with no consequences. If you do the same as an adult, you may well not have time to do all the other important things you need to do. All of the sudden, playtime has consequences.

These are some of my reasons for preferring this option. Don't get me wrong, I could go for the cosmetic slots if that's how it ended up being. But I just feel it would be a severe downgrade now that the idea of Item Fusion has been tossed around. I also feel it would be somewhat cheap to not use Item Fusion, given that Artix himself used it as a selling point on their Kickstarter.



Vypie -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (6/30/2016 16:50:00)

quote:

These are some of my reasons for preferring this option. Don't get me wrong, I could go for the cosmetic slots if that's how it ended up being. But I just feel it would be a severe downgrade now that the idea of Item Fusion has been tossed around. I also feel it would be somewhat cheap to not use Item Fusion, given that Artix himself used it as a selling point on their Kickstarter.

Yeah, it's very likely that it will make it into the game, in one way or another! :)

Regardless how it will be, they always talked about it very loosely, almost like a rough concept of the idea.
"Fusing the looks with stats" is the core idea, but the actual way of how it is going to work... who knows, maybe they will surprise us. I will enjoy IMMENSELY having such a RARE feature in games, even nowadays! :D

_________________

I like those experiences you mentioned. Choosing where to spend your play-time more efficiently where you desire, dedicating yourself to make your character the way you want, and hard-earned rewards for your effort, etc.
I feel (in my opinion), maybe we could take that effort into the collecting part of it? Make items harder to obtain, but once you have ONE, its yours forever. It makes the item itself more valuable, and you feel more rewarded because it mattered more.

I'm thinking you could also have these experiences on other parts of the game, such as crafting! (where to best spend your hard-earned materials, what kind of materials to farm). They did say crafting was going to be BIG in this game.
If you want to craft items for cosmetic purposes, you are dedicating extra time for something which gives no power advantage, and uses up materials you could use for combat purposes. A choice between focusing on LOOKS vs STATS there too.


My basic concern about the whole thing, is simply the part of losing items forever. In my case, I like rewards to be permanent, to feel valuable once you finally get them.
If items are able to be mixed indefinitely with anything and never getting destroyed, it will also make cosmetic bought items (paid with real currency) waaaay more valuable, otherwise many will think its not a good investment.

_____

Could there be a way to create that sense of GAIN/LOSS that doesn't compromise it?
Do you have any idea? Maybe along the way of getting the items, and not on the final products?

Maybe we could try to find a solution that appeals to both views. :)
And if they read this thread, maybe it could end up helping in some way, too.

(But we have to think this is a game designed for mobile, intended to be played in short bursts, on the go, and should try to appeal to people who may not have so much time as the hardcore player. Consequences should not be too high, or consume too much playtime if you change your mind, and we can't forget the purpose of the feature is, first of all, to have fun with playing with your looks).




ShadowMoon -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (7/1/2016 6:21:52)

i'd say we go for stat overlapping
lets say someone fuses a Deathly Zed Sword & an Exoblade into duel wield.
Zed has stats of
Health +72
Mana +36
Attack +79
Defense +8
Crit +5%
Crit Power +5%
Hit +5%

Exo has stats of
Health +58
Mana +50
Attack +72
Defense +22
Dodge +5%
Hit +5%
and here is an overlap of stats
Health +72
Mana +50
Attack +79
Defense +22
Dodge +5%
Hit +5%
Crit +5%
Crit Power +5%
by doing this, the only way for items to get more powerful is by overlapping something with better stats. all of the appearances on the other hand could be mixed around.
so for example you where to go & fuse zed with the shovel blade
Health +24
Attack +24
Crit +5%
you will be able to use what parts of the shovel blades artwork you want, but would not gain any stats.
l



HeroKae -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (7/1/2016 6:33:06)

@ShadowMoon

I think this will be bad for the game balance, as we would be able to make some really overpowered gear (like alpha knight helm II + brutal helm). But i would like if we be able to increase characters stats without gear like in AQ and DF.



David the Wanderer -> RE: RETHINK Item Fusion (7/1/2016 7:00:11)

I think it'll be a bit more straightforward: the stats of one item+the art of another. So, a Zed Sword which looks like an Exoblade, but has the same stats.



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