Total Balance Revamp including replacements of all Overlapping skills (Full Version)

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nowras -> Total Balance Revamp including replacements of all Overlapping skills (7/18/2016 12:25:27)

This post that's made of 232 lines is now finalized!

Before reading, I apologize for not using the proper grammar rules and punctuation as I wrote a lot.

Note: This suggestion contains replacements for all the overlapping skills and 4 adjustments to non-overlapping useless skills.

As we all know, currently, the best Focus build goes to TLM 5F and it's actually the best build in general. People are suggesting nerfing this class but, as we all know, nerfing reduces variety (diversity) so I'm suggesting buffing the other classes and builds instead.
My suggestion aims to fix the overlapping skills and aims to make these useless skills usable again and aims to buff underrated classes and also, class specific weapons!


Skill: FireBall

Energy Cost: 0

Changes:

1- No longer gives that useless special effect that reduces def/resis.

2- Works like an inverted frenzy; Converts 20% of the damage done to energy and 2x of that energy to health.

3- The scaling remains the same because it requires a Class Specific weapon and strength blood mages aren't good anyways.

4- Stacks with Blood Commander and Mark of Blood.

5- Cool down increased to 3 turns.



Skill: Plasma Bolt

Energy Cost: 0

Changes:

1- Works kind of like Fireball but, weaker; Converts 30% of the damage done to health points and 50% of the amount of the health received to energy.

2- The scaling shall be reduced a little bit.

3- Cool down increased to 3 turns.



Skill: Double Strike (Mercenary's double strike only)

Energy Cost: 0

Changes:

1- The scaling gets reduced a little bit only per a stat.

2- Drains your opponent's energy by 20% of the damage and gives 2x of that amount to your energy.

3- New name.

4- New skill design.

5- The animation remains the same.

6- Cool down 1 turn ---> 3 turns.



Skill: Static Smash

Energy Cost: 0 (The same)

Change:

1- Now, at max level, the skill drains 90% of the primary damage and converts 65% of that amount taken to your energy.

2- As it now improves with primary damage (strength points are excluded; Only the weapon damage is included. For example the sword gives 360 damage at level 40 and that's what's calculated only), the Blood Commander won't buff it.





Skill: Cheap Shot (Cyber Hunter)

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- Now also, converts 40% of the damage done to health points.

2- Can be stacked with Mark of Blood and Blood Commander.



Skill: Cheap Shot (Bounty Hunter)

Energy cost: 230 + 10 per level

Changes:

1- Cool Down 2 turns ----> 3 turns

2- Deals energy damage

3- New Animation

4- New Design

5- Deals massive damage equals to a % of your weapon's damage (Strength is counted like fireball for example) + your weapons damage +225 increasing your opponent's resistance by 50% converting 35% of the damage done to your health.

Level 1 - 1%

Level 2 - 2%

Level 3 - 3%

Level 4 - 4%

Level 5 - 5%

Level 6 - 6%

Level 7 - 7%

Level 8 - 8%

Level 9 - 9%

Level 10 - 10%

6- Can't hit critically or be used in rage.

7- New name.




Skill: Cyber Hunter's Multi Shot

Energy cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New animation

3- New skill design

4- Deals massive damage increasing your opponent's resistance by 50%.
(Instead of skills that ignore defenses, this skill does the opposite because it's damage is so high. It's better against low resistance builds and in juggernaut!)

It's damage = The damage of Multi shot + 225 at all levels.





Skill: Massacre (Bounty Hunter)

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- If not enough energy is available for massacre to be used, it's energy cost automatically gets reduced by 30%.

2- If it's energy cost got reduced by 30%, it's damage gets reduced by 15% damage (for example: If it does 130% more damage at max level, now it only does 115% more damage).

3- Now it deals 10% more damage at all levels.




Skill: Tactical Mercenary's double strike

Energy Cost: 140 165 + 15 per level

Changes:

1- Now unblockable and converts 30% of the damage done to health points.

2- The scaling remains the same Scaling changed to:

Level 1 - 7% more damage
Level 2 - 9% more damage
Level 3 - 11% more damage
Level 4 - 13% more damage
Level 5 - 15% more damage
Level 6 - 17% more damage
Level 7 - 19% more damage
Level 8 - 21% more damage
Level 9 - 23% more damage
Level 10 - 25% more damage




Skill: Atom Smash

Energy Cost: 165 + 15 per level

Changes:

1- Now scales with the total damage of your primary (Strength points are now counted)

2- Drains your opponent's energy over 3 turns and reduces your opponent's highest base stat by a % for also, 3 turns. (Because TLM is the only class the doesn't have a debuff.)

Level 1 - 3% Stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 1

Level 2 - 7% stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 2

Level 3 - 11% stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 3

Level 4 - 15% stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 4

Level 5 - 19% stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 5

Level 6 - 23% stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 6

Level 7 - 27% stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 7

Level 8 - 31% stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 8

Level 9 - 35% stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 9

Level 10 - 39% stat reduction - Same energy drain as now for level 10




Skill: Bounty Hunter's Mark of Blood

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New Animation

3- New Design

4- The first strike doesn't give health anymore but now it lasts for 4 turns instead of 3.



Skill: Bounty Hunter's energy shield

Energy Cost: The same energy as the current energy shield for BMs + 20 at all level.

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Duration 3 turns ---> 4 turns

5- Gives a little bit less resistance



Skill: Reflex Boost for Blood Mages

Energy Cost: Lower by 20 at all levels

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Works the same way as it was before when it used to give energy.

5- Gives a little bit less dex points.



Skill: TLM's Stun Grenade

Energy Cost: 150 + 20 per level

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Deals massive damage equals to 2x your current defense + 30% of the defense that any shield gives you increasing your opponent's defense by a % with a 15% chance to stun.
Max damage is 1000 (before defense calculation).
Level 1 - 95%
Level 2 - 90%
Level 3 - 85%
Level 4 - 80%
Level 5 - 75%
Level 6 - 70%
Level 7 - 65%
Level 8 - 60%
Level 9 - 55%
Level 10 - 50%
Combine this move with Mineral armor and rage for the best results. Counterable easily by defense shields.




Skill: Tech Mage's Defense Matrix

Energy Cost: higher by 10 at all levels

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Now lasts for 4 turns and gives a little bit less defense at all levels.



Skill: Cyber Hunter's Malfunction

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Debuffs your opponent's resistance directly by a %. The % increases by 1 for every 4 support points.
Lasts for 3 turns.
Level 1 - 3%
Level 2 - 5%
Level 3 - 7%
Level 4 - 9%
Level 5 - 11%
Level 6 - 13%
Level 7 - 15%
Level 8 - 17%
Level 9 - 19%
Level 10 - 21%





Skill: Blood Mage's Overload

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Now it does physical damage.



Skill: Plasma Rain

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Deals massive damage increasing your opponent's defense by 50%.
The damage = The current damage of Plasma rain with the same scaling + 225 at all levels.




Skill: Tech Mage's bludgeon

Energy Cost: Increased by 35 at all levels

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Now requires support instead of dex to be used.

5- Deals massive damage increasing your opponent's defense by 50%.
Deals the same % of the damage as the current bludgeon +225 damage.



Skill: Tech Mage's Battery Back Up

Energy Cost: 0

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Lower it's base energy by 133 at all levels.

5- Now it scales with support; 2 energy points for every 1 support.




Skill: Blood Mage's Intimidate

Energy Cost: Higher by 20 at all levels

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Now lasts for 4 turns with a lower amount of strength points reduction





Skill: Tactical Mercenary's Artillery Strike

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Now does energy damage.

Skill: Cyber Hunter's Venom Strike

Energy Cost: Higher by 10 at all levels

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Unblockable and deals 90% damage.





Skill: Cyber Hunter's shadow arts

Energy Cost: Same cost + 50 energy at all levels if you have a partner

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- If you have a partner in 2v2, shadow arts now also, shields him/her by giving him/her 50% of the % of damage reduction you got from the shadow arts.




Skill: Massacre (Cyber Hunter)

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- added 30% lifesteal.

5- 10% more damage at all levels.



Skill: Blood Mage's Super Charge

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Now improves with dexterity

5- Now it's physical




Skill: Surgical Strike for Mercenaries

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name (Something related to lava? I don't know..)

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Now deals Physical damage

5- Now, instead of taking 50% of the opponent's rage, it now deals massive damage increasing the opponent's defense by 45%.

6- The same damage as it was before + 225 at all levels.




Note: Any suggestion with new name, new design and a new animation is a suggestion for a replacement of an overlapping skill but, I didn't think of these things for them.





Rage and criticals for Massive Damage skills: Critical or rage or both ignore the opponent's defense after the opponent's defense/resistance gets buffed by the %
I also, need help from you guys to tweak these Massive Damage moves because they are kind of broken in my suggestion. Please leave your thoughts below.


After this change we will see more Class Specific weapons and more builds such as Blood Mage Strength, Blood Mage Focus with a Staff, Tech Mage Focus and Caster builds, Bounty Hunter and Cyber Hunter Massacre builds, Focus Mercenary, Strength Mercenary and also, Strength Tactical Mercenaries.
Also, you will see new OP builds in juggernaut due to these new massive damage skills. Please leave your thoughts about my suggestion below.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 14:24:37)

quote:

As we all know, currently, the best Focus build goes to TLM 5F and it's actually the best build in general. People are suggesting nerfing this class but, as we all know, nerfing reduces variety so I'm suggesting buffing the other classes instead.

At first you said 5 focus TLM is the best build in general. Well, if you know how to play it, it will be good. I've faced different 5 focus TLMs, and the class itself is not OP, it's how you play it that makes it OP or not.
Back when I was lower level/rank, this build wasn't as popular, 5 focus BH/Strenght BM was dominating. TLM is not an easy class to master, so being OP with it requires some time not just playing moves without further consideration (especially if playing versus BMs or classes with better energy control).

Although it's slower than 5 focus BM, and weaker versus support builds (lack of MoB), the build has a better win ratio if you know how to play it. But planning a "total balance revamp" based on one build as not good, as all the changes you mentioned aim to nerf TLM indirectly by buffing other classes, but what about other builds of TLM?
Support TLM is good/moderate: Weak versus strenght builds, moderate versus dex builds, can be good versus 5 focus builds.
Strenght TLM isn't that good: Beside versus support builds, the build is bad compared to a better strenght build.
High dex TLM doesn't exist.
If with your changes, you are planning to increase variety, well I don't exactly see how that will happen.
My second remark is, all the tweaks are energy-dependent, some are frenzy-look-alikes. I'm not sure where is variety in that, if all classes are going to give back energy/health points just like TLM then that doesn't bring much variety. (Except for mercenary, which would

Was looking for static smash, didn't find it. I'm not sure if this is a total balance revamp, or you are still adding more tweaks.
I think you added it while I was making this post.
I saw double strike's buff but that's still not enough to make mercenary a better class energy wise:
- It's an overlapping: Meaning that double strike for both classes must be changed. (Not my words, devs confirmed this, I think due to engine limitation).
- Static smash is the main energy skill, so I think we should start with buffing that before adding an additional energy skill.

I think there are few things to fix before dealing with skills or general balance:
- Fix overlapping skills. Overlapping skills make a huge problem when it comes to increasing variety and fixing balance.
- Balance class specific weapons: That will increase variety a bunch.
- Make new cores to increase variety.



nowras -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 14:31:46)

You made some replies without taking a look at my suggestion. I added a lot of things in my suggestion. I was editing it then when I finally finished editing it, I posted it on twitter. So, I ask you to take a look at it again.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 14:46:24)

The post was made 2 hours ago, so I thought you were done editing. I did take a general look on the tweaks. The suggestions are far from being explicit enough to make a total balance revamp. They mainly aim to buff classes in general, I don't see much depth.

And I did read your suggestions. You suggested 8 changes for 8 different skills. But 5 out of them are frenzy look alikes, hence I didn't go through details for each one.
1- Fireball: Frenzy look-alike.
2- Plasma bolt: Works like fireball, your new fireball works like frenzy, so it's another frenzy look-alike.
3- Merc's Double strike: Energy frenzy.
4- Static smash: Just added now, it still remains a weaker version of Static Grenade (BH's energy skill), BHs get back 65% energy from total energy drained, and it improves with support. A 5 focus BH/supp BH will drain more. I think the scaling should be different. This skill needs a total revamp.
Blood commander buffs old static smash, so removing that now, isn't really needed.
5- Cheapshot: HP frenzy.
6- Massacre: I'm not sure how this works... I tried to understand it but, are you saying after the 3rd turn, when massacre is usable, the energy gets automatically reduced?
7- TLM's double strike: HP frenzy.
8- Atom smash: Good change but the problem is not in the skill, it's in class specific weapons. I'm sure TLMs won't use this skill, unless CSW are fixed.

So 5 out of 8 skills you suggested are frenzy look-alikes. They either give back HP, energy or both. I'm not saying these are bad changes. They simply don't add in more variety.

Here is the link to suggest changes for overlapping skills by the way: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=22044884&mpage
I think there are few other things to work on before fixing skills and classes. Eliminating overlapping skills will make balance way easier. Balancing class specific weapons will make balance way easier. And I'll give you an example, you suggested a buff for Merc's double strike, this skill needs a maul, and it's shared with TLMs. Why not make a new one, doesn't require class specific weapon, and it will be much better.



nowras -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 15:06:58)

They do work almost the same way as Frenzy but, they don't have the same effect as Frenzy so there's no relation between variety reduction (diversity reduction) and these skills. They might kind of reduce the ''uniqueness'' of Frenzy but they won't reduce variety in general.

I also, edited the post and changed the cheap shot and Multi Shot for CHs as they're overlapping skill so, implementing my suggestion will become a first move in fixing overlapping skills which will increase variety.


quote:

Static smash: Just added now, it still remains a weaker version of Static Grenade (BH's energy skill), BHs get back 65% energy from total energy drained, and it improves with support. A 5 focus BH/supp BH will drain more. I think the scaling should be different. This skill needs a total revamp.

They do drain more but, Mercenaries have another way of getting and draining energy now; Double Strike.


quote:

6- Massacre: I'm not sure how this works... I tried to understand it but, are you saying after the 3rd turn, when massacre is usable, the energy gets automatically reduced?

Let's give you an example:
If you have 580 energy and massacre isn't on cool down or warm up, you will be able to use it but for a 580 energy cost.
If you have 410 energy and massacre isn't on cool down or warm up, you will be also able to use it but for only 410 energy as it's energy cost is reduced by 30% because you don't have enough energy to use it with it's original energy cost.
Got it now?



Actually, my suggestion will increase variety (diversity) for the reasons I stated here regardless of if the skills are Frenzy look-alikes because they reduce the uniqueness of Frenzy not the variety.
quote:

After this change we will see more Class Specific weapons and more builds such as Blood Mage Strength, Blood Mage Focus with a Staff, Tech Mage Focus and Caster builds, Bounty Hunter and Cyber Hunter Massacre builds, Focus Mercenary, Strength Mercenary and also, Strength Tactical Mercenaries.


quote:

Why not make a new one, doesn't require class specific weapon, and it will be much better.


In my suggestion, it's actually a new skill, not Double Strike. I just don't have an idea for the name that's why I called it ''Mercenary's double strike.''




Exploding Penguin -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 15:44:03)

If I were to do a huge balance rework thing, I would steer away from making fights cyclical and gearing more towards healing/lifestealing being much less impactful, and making energy much easier to exhaust entirely in general. Energy management is an important concept and it's entirely devalued by how people just don't run out of energy anymore unless they are a specific class playing against another specific class.

Therefore, not supporting any of these.



nowras -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 15:59:08)

@EP If the devs would think like you, the game wouldn't get fixed at all and you would never get rid of Overlapping Skills and you will never see these useless skills useable again.
If you want to not support this suggestion then you must suggest something else that's better than what I suggested. If everyone of us don't support the balance suggestions of others and don't make a suggestion their selves, then the game will stay the way it's and will never be changed.
P.S: My suggestion is better than the current balance.

Not to mention that not all of these skills I suggested are making new energy controlling moves so, I don't see why you're not supporting ''ANY'' of these.
Also, I'm now editing this post so I suggest you to take a look at it after a few hours because I'm planning a change for all overlapping skills.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 16:59:39)

I am not obliged to suggest an alternate if I'm not supporting a suggestion. What I, or any other user of forum is obliged to do is provide a reasonable rationale as to why they support or do not support something. Adding on to that fact is that if you look back in the archives of forum posts or just happen to remember, over the past 2 years I have made several threads, all with different suggestions for fixing overlapping skills. And simply suggesting something "better" than the norm isn't good enough. Why try and implement something simply "better" than implementing something which could potentially be the "best?"

And I am not supporting any of them exactly because they are energy controlling moves. Energy management means you don't just blindly spend your energy with plans of getting it back later. Most builds don't invest in max energy that much for a reason, and that is because there is no need to anymore. Having too many energy-regaining moves takes out a flavor of build making which is the element of investing in max energy, not to mention an important battle mechanic that was once existent which is proper energy management so that instead of just going "what is the best move to use this turn," we think "what is the best move to use this turn given I will be unable to use another skill for a long time because I don't have the proper means to regain enough energy for it." Thus, I am not going to support most to all suggestions that gear ED towards fights that are based almost entirely off of sustainability. I'd much rather prefer how battles were before passives got changed to actives.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 17:14:08)

quote:

Note: This post isn't finalized and is being edited from time to time. It will be finalized once I remove this note.

You can use the "Preview" feature to check your suggestin before announcing it. And then you can edit in the OP if there are better suggestions from other members.

I'll edit this and reply to you once you are done editing OP.



nowras -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 17:46:21)

Now I have done editing this post, you can check it. I suggested a lot of new cool suggestions to fix the Overlapping skills and juggernaut battle mode.


@EP I don't understand how they all are energy controlling moves as there're only 4 energy controlling moves out of 26 suggestions. 3 of them are new energy controlling moves and one of them is a buff to the Mercenary's energy controlling move that already exists and another one (from the 3 other moves) is also, a buff to Mercenary but, it's a new energy controlling move. So, you're actually, judging this entire OP for only 15% of it.
quote:

I'd much rather prefer how battles were before passives got changed to actives.

Battles before passives were faster but, less strategic which led to low %s where luck played a major role.
Also, spending in max energy disappeared when Omega came not when passives were removed. That's because of the lack of stats that the weapons provided in Omega. Back then in Delta, weapons used to provide many stat points which made people spend in energy and also, high energy builds disappeared because of the nerf to Massacre which will be buffed in my suggestion so, I guess your point of view is completely wrong.

Not to mention that in my suggestion, juggernaut will be playable again which's actually a good move from me. This also, proves your point of view is wrong.
I'm also, waiting for the reason of why everyone of these 26 suggestions are not supported. You just provided a reason for 3-4 of them and I proved you were wrong and just a reminder: 2 of these suggestions that you didn't support aim to buff the Mercenary Class so, I guess you just hate Mercenary or something and you don't want it to be buffed... Now I know why the developers didn't buff this class even though a lot of people suggested buffing it.... I'm also waiting to hear your other reasons for the other suggestions.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/18/2016 22:33:44)

My bad, I was in a rush earlier and misread some stuff. Here is my critique for the rest of the skill suggestions:

-For the resistance increasing mechanic on BH cheap shot and CH multi shot, because of the way defense/resistance works and how they have absolutely no %-based reduction associated with them, it just polarizes the skill to either be amazingly useful or very useless. I understand the point of it is to be weak vs. tanky builds and strong vs. squishier, glass cannon builds, but the degree at which it's too good/useless is way, way too high. The idea is not bad but it has to do with a fundamental problem of ED's defense/resistance system which renders the concept most likely unsuccessful
-I'm more of a fan of the whole "very big damage for very big energy cost" identity that massacre has always had. So I'd rather it just having retuned numbers on damage/energy cost rather than a very weird conditional where you can cast it economically but only if you already don't have enough energy. Not to mention that it will function basically as a "even if you drain my energy you still can't stop me" type of feeling which is pretty reminiscent of the old massacre BH that's just "even if you drain my energy I'll just use boosters." And this is my personal preference but I really didn't like boosters. Basically, it makes it more interesting if the cost is still really high for very high damage values since there's a lot more playing around the energy cost with that type of setting. That being said, I'm not saying that the skill doesn't need a buff because it most certainly does, but I'd like to see it in different areas.
-TLM Double strike with a pretty decent lifesteal ratio, moderate energy cost, and still keeping its current CD at 1 is projected to be pretty darn strong. If anything it could be really obnoxious in 2v2 since it gives you so much consistently high DPS while returning a bit of health to you. Retune the numbers a bit and I could support it
-I'd much prefer TLM of keeping its inability to debuff but having its strengths elsewhere. I'm more of a fan of classes that are very good at certain things with large deficits in other areas, as long as it can still keep up with the other classes and its wins/losses aren't based mostly off of matchup. New atom smasher concept is cool but I'd be much happier if it was used instead to replace another overlapping skill that is also a debuff.
-The BH mark of blood change is IMO unnecessary. It's a fine and handy skill but I don't think it deserves that big of a nerf. The basis of the skill is that you expend a lot of energy and commit yourself to an offensive playstyle for the next few turns to make the energy cost worth it. If this is intended to be a buff for caster builds with low strength, running the skill itself on a caster build isn't going to be too effective either since that energy is probably better spent elsewhere. It might seem minor but not having that instant heal just takes away so much power from the skill. If you want to nerf it I would rather increase the energy cost by a bit at all levels.
-I don't really have much to say about the BH energy shield change since it's a simple change to it, but I was thinking there is a lot more potential in the skill by having it last 3 turns, but if you apply mark of blood while energy shield is up, then energy shield's duration is increased by an additional turn. This type of suggestion is more in an attempt of reshaping BH to be very centric on Mark of blood if it wants to use energy shield, since the builds that run mark of blood are probably the ones that will want to run energy shield as well, and builds that don't use mark of blood most likely don't have a need for energy shield as well.
-For BM reflex boost, it's basically the same thing as BH energy shield. The change itself is fine, but it could have a bit more potential by interacting specially with other skills on BM's skill tree.
-I very much like the base concept of the new TLM stun grenade. My qualms with it lie in the previously mentioned "buff the opponent's defenses" mechanic that, as I explained before, I don't really like since it polarizes its effectiveness versus certain builds and can render a large skill point investment somewhat useless. Also, if the stun chance is going to be that low, it probably just shouldn't be there. Low stun chances like that don't do much except translate to a lot of angry people complaining about how they never get lucky or the opponent got too lucky. The current stun mechanic in ED is honestly really darn broken and IMO all stun skills need to get completely reworked, but I can save that for another post in possibly the near future.
-I like the current TM defense matrix as of now. It has a nice identity for a low energy cost and just shutting down physical attacks almost completely for the next 3 turns. If anything, it doesn't see much success right now because of the way the meta is.
-CH Malfunction: It's cool to add in a new mechanic, but it could have more to it. By that I mean more interesting synergies and special interactions with other skills. I am a firm believer that if most skills in a class interact in unique, special ways with each other, it will make both build making and battling a lot more fun and interesting. Thus, I like where the suggestion for this skill is heading but it could have a bit more to it in terms of its unique properties.
-As stated before, I have a huge thing regarding stun skills and how none of them in their current state are healthy for the game. Thus, can't support this since it's basically just a physical version of overload.
-Plasma Rain and bludgeon have the same problem I have with the other skills hosting the same mechanic
-TM Battery Backup: Scales with support which is always cool. I definitely want support to have more applications than it currently has, and it fits in thematically for it to improve the energy regeneration skill
-BM Intimidate: I like it how it currently is with the 3 turns of slightly stronger strength reduction. What would be cooler with it would be that it's actually applied as caster damage rather than strike damage. So, the damage on cast would be unblockable and scale with something that isn't strike damage.
-TLM Artillery Strike & CH Venom Strike: The only reason they are suggested to be changed is to "fix" the overlapping skill problem. It really doesn't change them much at all in terms of what role they fulfill or their base function. Same can be said for some other skills on the list of suggestions. The point of getting rid of overlapping skills is to completely reshape the skill's identity or just entirely replace it with another concept, not to just mess around with the numbers a tiny bit and call it a new skill.
-CH Shadow Arts: There are other things I would have personally done with reworking this skill but the change you suggested has its own interesting applications so I can't say that I don't support it. If anything it really doesn't change the skill in 1v1 at all and it's still an overlapping skill. Should probably just get replaced entirely by a new skill.
-For the last 3 skills on the list, my critique of them is basically already covered by what I've said about the other skills.

To me, when we say we want to fix the problem of overlapping skills, it means that we want to introduce new functionality for all of the overlapping skills being fixed. Simply changing the numbers/duration slightly or changing the damage type doesn't really do this.

As a side note, I am VERY glad that you are willing to put so much time into suggesting new things for ED. It really means a lot that people still care enough about this game to spend a good chunk of time suggesting stuff that might not even get implemented.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/19/2016 22:21:40)

Went through a few and saw a couple of skills that gave you health and enegry, stopped reading it afterwards. Wouldn't this make the problem we have with balance now worse? We need unique skills and classes.



nowras -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/20/2016 17:18:51)

@CyberDream Then read more because only the first few ones give health and energy.
And nope, they wouldn't make the problems worse as they all will be for Class Specific weapons only which means you would need to sacrifice stats in order to use them and they will just make these useless skills useable again. I'm pretty much sure that there's no way you could make them useable again without applying this balance change.


quote:

To me, when we say we want to fix the problem of overlapping skills, it means that we want to introduce new functionality for all of the overlapping skills being fixed. Simply changing the numbers/duration slightly or changing the damage type doesn't really do this.

@EP your understanding of Overlapping skills and the removal of them is completely wrong. As the creator of this idea (Silver Sky Magician) said:
quote:

It's perfectly alright if the new skill suggested is nearly identical to the one being replaced. The primary aim of eliminating overlapping skills is to facilitate balance adjustments so that future changes to one skill will not inadvertently affect another class.

According to this quote, they can be identical. This proves you're just trying to find excuses to not support my suggestion.. According to your understanding, Toxic Grenade, Fireball, Plasma Cannon, Plasma armor and Mineral armor are all overlapping skills while in fact, they are not!

quote:

-The BH mark of blood change is IMO unnecessary. It's a fine and handy skill but I don't think it deserves that big of a nerf. The basis of the skill is that you expend a lot of energy and commit yourself to an offensive playstyle for the next few turns to make the energy cost worth it. If this is intended to be a buff for caster builds with low strength, running the skill itself on a caster build isn't going to be too effective either since that energy is probably better spent elsewhere. It might seem minor but not having that instant heal just takes away so much power from the skill. If you want to nerf it I would rather increase the energy cost by a bit at all levels.

How's this a nerf ms.EP? With this change BHs can use MoB first turn without worrying about wasting one turn of it and they could also benefit more from the ''MoB + Smoke + Bot + Aux + Gun'' combo as they would use all their moves when both MoB and Smoke screen are active.
quote:

Retune the numbers a bit and I could support it

That's what I also thought. I'll for sure retune them.
Edit: Done! Now please give me your thoughts about these new numbers for the TLM's Double Strike.

Also, the def/resis increasing mechanic needs adjustments. It can become a part of the game but it really needs adjustments first. I'll try my best to make it as perfect as possible but, I also, need help from all of you, so please help me with it.



Lord Machaar -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/20/2016 18:13:08)

quote:

Let's give you an example:
If you have 580 energy and massacre isn't on cool down or warm up, you will be able to use it but for a 580 energy cost.
If you have 410 energy and massacre isn't on cool down or warm up, you will be also able to use it but for only 410 energy as it's energy cost is reduced by 30% because you don't have enough energy to use it with it's original energy cost.
Got it now?

So, at the 5th round, I have 500 energy, I can automatically use Massacre Level 10 for 410 energy?
Then basically, I will never use Massacre with 580 energy. Frost shards (Or any other core basically), and use Massacre for 410 energy, and have 140 energy left if my max energy is 630 (For BHs). It sounds like a useless suggestion, you could've simply said, you can use Massacre for 30% less energy. I'd be more interested in the reason tho.

This suggestion would be viable, if for example, for 15% more energy, you can deal more damage with Massacre, or for 30% more energy, you can steal HP with it... But saying for 15%/30% less energy you can use it, then simply you are automatically making it usable for less energy, no need to mention the higher energy cost because no one will have to use it for that energy.

The suggestion is basically making level 10 massacre used for 410 energy instead of 580. That sounds like a big buff to me without any reason behind it, and without taking in consideration other skills like Supercharge and Surgical Strike.

Maybe if these 3 overlapping skills get eliminated in 3 out of the 6 classes, then they can be balanced perfectly. But as long as Massacre, SS and SC are shared between the 6 classes (1 for each 2), then I doubt any buff/nerf or a balance in general can be effective enough.
quote:

Skill: Massacre (Cyber Hunter)

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- adds 30% lifesteal.




Skill: Blood Mage's Super Charge

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Now improves with dexterity

5- Now it's physical




Skill: Surgical Strike for Mercenaries

Energy Cost: The same

Changes:

1- New name (Something related to lava? I don't know..)

2- New design

3- New animation

4- Now deals Physical damage

5- Now, instead of taking 50% of the opponent's rage, it now deals massive damage increasing the opponent's defense by 45%.

6- The same damage as it was before + 225 at all levels.

The suggestions you gave are not that bad, renovative, but I still think they are inferior to the buff you suggested for BH's Massacre. Like BM's supercharge is untouched, TLM's SS is untouched, TM's supercharge is untouched... so I think all super attacks should be buffed/nerfed at once to keep the game balanced.



nowras -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/20/2016 18:24:27)

Well, I have made a lot of suggestions and couldn't think of one for BHs massacre but, I guess your suggestion of making it do more damage if it's done with higher energy cost is cool. I'll edit the post now.
Thanks for your suggestion.
Massacre is the most useless and weakest skill of them all; that's why it was the only one that was buffed.
Mercenary's SS didn't really get a buff. It's effect was just replaced with a new effect.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Total Balance Revamp (7/21/2016 7:25:20)

I will come back and put in more feedback on all of the changes.

To clarify, Silver Sky Magician was not part of the development team from that aspect. Those were merely the premises for the suggestion thread. Additionally, plans regarding ED development have probably changed a ton since that thread was started up. I'm saying that I can't support it because of the reasons given which are my own opinion. It's the simple logic of, "If something is to be fixed, it might as well be fixed in the best possible way the first time." Simply making something currently energy damage deal physical damage instead really doesn't add nearly as much flavor to the class as would be something else such as completely revamping the skill to assist in aiding in the unique identity of the class. I would not necessarily consider plasma cannon and the other skills you listed as overlapping since that isn't the definition of an overlapping skill, but I definitely want said similar skills to be changed and/or revamped because the base functionality is the same.

The BH mark of blood change is what I would call a nerf since you no longer get the lifesteal effect on the turn of activation. The suggested change does improve the overall potential of the skill but takes away the extremely handy utility of having an instant healing effect, albeit quite minor in most scenarios.

EDIT:
For TLM's double strike, reduce the energy cost, reduce the level 1 bonus damage ratio by a few %, and increase the bonus damage per skill point invested. Right now it's a 1-point wonder type of skill, a skill that is essentially useless to level up but has overtuned numbers at 1 skill point. It would be a lot better if the skill points placed into the skill made more of a difference.




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