RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (Full Version)

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Xendran -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/25/2016 8:41:06)

Suggestion 35 by Xendran

1. When adjusting "Overpowered" builds, consider Toolset changes first, before stat or mechanical changes like reinstating Agility

This applies to all builds, but HP is a good guinea pig to use here.

HP isn't numerically overpowered, however the way it functions has too few counters.
The problem isn't the power that you get from HP, but that there is no way to punish your opponent for over-investing in it, whereas you can punish them for over-investing in any other stat.

Determine the role you want HP builds to have, and whether they are meant to be their own build or an extension of other builds.
Determine whether or not the toolsets that HP builds currently use effectively reinforce this role. If they don't, this is your first point of investigation.
Find out why they use the tools they use. See if these tools need to be adjusted in order to correctly fit their role instead of the HP Stack role.

Once you have a solidly defined role and an intended use of available toolsets:
Determine what playstyles HP is meant to be good/bad against.
Give builds that are meant to be good against HP stacking access to tools that effectively punish HP stacking.



LordAbdi18 -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/25/2016 8:46:37)

Lord Giner
"The mini passives are only equippable to an aux so people can't stack them."



Even if passives were back people could still stack them. There are builds like support that increases multi damage for TLM/Merce, support massacre for BH and lastly support tech mage that improves stun. Let's just accept the fact passives won't be back.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/25/2016 16:28:03)

^
Would be cores to put in a wep, like aim assist, so you couldn't stack like reroute or blood lust. You misunderstood me. There is no implementing passives into the tree, just different cores for weapons.



LordAbdi18 -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/25/2016 20:11:55)

^
That doesn't help.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/25/2016 21:13:17)

Suggestion # 36 by Lord Ginger

If were going to balance the game we need to make energy not as important, or make it harder to regen hp. We could also use the stats to
Increase the scaling damages on Primary sidearm etc... Making gun scale with str is better or we should make str builds viable again so we dont need to sacrifice damage on guns and aux. with current str we have to abandon dexterity and gun damage which shouldnt happen.



Cyb3R ShAd0w -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/26/2016 14:54:51)

Suggestion #37 By Cyb3R ShAd0w

A Major thing with ED is Support, honestly that is so broken for example:

18 support can ethier get a stun on a focus with 45-47 support and a non suppot build can even stun a full support build, really needs to be fixed and make 18 support never start against someone WITH support.

That's pretty much the only thing that can be fixed for me to make it actually enjoyable, I love other ideas from other people.

Another thing is (this isn't a balance but heres an idea) Please please make a BuyBack Shop, it might not happen but please consider adding it because I bet everyone would want it, if AQW can have It, why cant ED?
Anything we have sold during any phase of when the ur account was created, that item e.g a sword or armour or robot etc they can buy it back and have it
I reckon everyone would want this because they can buy stuff they accidently sold in the past.

Edit: Also please make factions win LEGIT. Its so boring & predictable that every faction in 1v1 needs the use of botters/alts. They CANT win dailys without them, its pathetic.
So how can you stop that? Simple. Its pretty obvious and so bait when their is a botter/alt in a certain faction, they obviously aren't playing themselves so every 2-3 battles, use a system where you need to enter a code or something in order to use the Pvp system.
Nothing gets done about it so something like this needs to be done.



Elrite -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/26/2016 17:57:56)

Suggestion #38 by Elrite

1 - Remove ranks and lower level cap to around 35 so that people could find an opponent within their level range faster. Instead of ranks, have some rewards for each max leveled character after a specific amount of exp is reached (for example each for every "xx" exp , players at level cap get an amount of credits or achievements or something similar). That way no current legend would mind the lower lvl cap and removed ranks.

2 - Stop making vehicles other than bikes, as other players said, they do not fit in the ED universe.

3 - Only have experienced artists with good sketches and concepts add items to the game, like Nightwraith and Charfade and some skilled guest artists, as many players complain about the quality of added items that are more focused on quantity than quality and which , again , don't fit into the ED universe.

4 - Major overhaul of some class skills, which can be done as follows :
* Replace the skill Fire Scythe with an active version of the old TM deadly aim skill that fires gun with increased damage (the max lvl energy to use it would be around 22).
* Replace tech mage skill Plasma Bolt with another new skill of developers' choice OR buff its DMG/Effect .
* The def/res decrease by 5% by BM Fireball is completely underwhelming and should scale to around 30%
* Add DoT to Blood Mage skill Fireball that lasts 2 turns and nerf the impact damage OR buff its damage and make it scale with STR so that STR builds are viable again.
* Replace Blood Mage's bludgeon with berserker. (STR builds for BM are currently unusable and this would make that change)
* Replace BM Reflex OR Energy Shield with the active deadly aim skill (mentioned earlier).
* Massively reduce energy cost of BH and CH skill Massacre and Shadow Arts ( OR replace Shadow Arts with a brand new skill ) and buff both skills' effects (they're not efficient
currently and rarely are they even looked at).
* Replace Cheap Shot with a brand new skill because nobody ever uses it.
* Mercenary class should be looked at again because right now it is completely underpowered and overwhelmed on almost every level in every aspect. Adrenaline rush is
completely and utterly useless. Replace with brand new skill that can make mercenary class viable.
* Buff double strike or reduce energy cost. Replace Maul with brand new skill. Buff ALL kinds of DEF/RES increasing skills. Increase bunker buster's damage significantly.
* Tactical Mercenary has very little build options, and most stick with just the poison build. Stun grenade doesn't make any sense to have on it. Replace Stun Grenade with
Smoke Screen so this class becomes viable again. Buff Frenzy's HP/Energy effects.

That is all for now. I hope you take the time to read my suggestions.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/26/2016 18:44:09)

#39

This is more of a preset for bigger changes in the future that can be built off of this initial change.

-Remove battery backup, static smash, static grenade, and energy parasite from all class' skill trees. Retune these skills into reusable sidearm cores that have a much weaker effect on the turn they are used but cost no energy.
Why: Sets up for a proper "removal of passives" change where new skills introduced in place of these old, removed skills aren't mandatory skills anymore. Also contests the sidearm active core spot for azrael's will. Taking away/recharging energy should be a choice that seems very weak and requires lots of tactical thinking to decide if it is worth it or not. Hence, these cores are reusable but fairly low-impact so that you must think about whether or not spending a whole turn draining a small amount of energy and gaining some is actually worth it.

-Move energy shot from an active sidearm core to an aux core. No cost, not reusable.
Why: If you want to make a build based off of draining energy (particularly for 2v2 where it can be even more strategic) then this maximizes the tools you can use for such a build. Also will probably not see any play if it stays as a sidearm core since it will be contested by reworked versions of the drain skills.

-Assimilation, static charge, atom smasher, and emp greande stay on the trees. This is because they are thematic to the class and aren't mandatory skills (except for static charge). These skills are kept to maintain the unique attributes of the classes they are on without deteriorating the meta like the other energy flow moves did.



Cyber Dream -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/26/2016 20:55:43)

Suggestion #40 by the Infamous Cyber Dream:)
Juggernaut
Juggernaut is literally unplayable at this moment and it's long past due for an update. I've suggested a couple ideas in the past which may improve this game mode and I will re-suggest them for this post.

Passives
This alone may make jugg playable again. Bring back Passives for juggernauts only. This way, we could save some skill/stat points that would normally be invested towards actives and put it towards some other skill that may help us in battle.

Boosters
Bring back boosters for juggs only. It's no secret that juggs are underpowerd. Boosters could be used as a small boost/advantage.

  • Always give Juggs the first turn in a match.

    Remove the underdog/ranks system all together
     Why? Because it's literally (excuse my language) stupid. Why add in an underdog feature to rival higher players? Because lower players are having a hard time competing? Well, start with the source of the problem before adding in handicaps. IMO, a combat rating will work just fine in epic duel. Keep the max level at 40, remove ranks, lower the skill points and stat points and lower the amount of xp it takes to hit 40. Matter of fact, add in a solid story and by the time you've completed the story, you'll be max level. Use this system I am about to suggest.
    -Your combat rating will be determined by the level of gear you have and by the amount of stat points you have within your gear, it will also be based on level a little. So lets say the max CR is 100. You can be level 1 CR100 all the way up to level 40 CR100. So basically, your cr is based on your gear at your current level. To avoid players purposely lowering their CR to get matched with someone with a lower CR. A system should be added in to detect if a player has gear or recently had gear which gave him a higher cr prior to battle. If this happens then the system will give the player's next opponent a boost similar to underdog mode which should be scaled to the difference in the CR.

    Class specific roles/items

    Basically, give each class it's own strengths and weaknesses and make class specific items with modified stats which contribute to both. So tanks will have tanking gear, dps will having dps gear and healers will have healing gear. Also, giving each class a base dps role seems to work out well in games. So basically, make each class unique.


    Better PVE/NPC events/experiences

    I have a couple ideas which could bring the ED community closer and add in more competition besides pvping.
  • Add in a world boss where all the players will be competing to see who inflicts the most damage.
    -Add in scaled PVE weapons which should be f2p and have no kind of p2w aspect added to it. So the more you play, the better you get.
    -Add in shops for these scaled pve items.
    -Add in PVE leaderboards/rewards for such events.
    -Add in new achievements related to this.
    -Add in a storyline with more of a battle map style where you fight npcs based on their strength. So basically the first storyline boss will be the weakest and the last will be the strongest.
  • Npc hour? This could be similar to power hour but instead, players will be fighting npcs to level their pve items.

  • Add in some type of farming system
    -The farming system we have now which is npcing is to plain and boring. Add in something a little more interesting. Something like blueprints, basically we can build any weapon and class in the game but to do so, we need to collect parts. As to where we could get these parts? Npcs? Why not? Im pretty sure you guys know what farming is. Add in something to make us work for while keeping it fun. Make us WANT to farm.


    Variations and Arcade


    Ok, this is the best idea to me. Add in variations of items. I wanna give an example but I can't think of a game that has this right now so i'll try to explain.

    -Lets say I have the Delta Armor. A variation would be an alternate version of the delta armor with a different color scheme, name, or even a slightly new look.
    -To get variations, you can farm npc for certain styles or use arcade tokens for the arcade.
  • I would suggest adding in two types of arcade tokens. One type being cheaper in credit and varium cost which gives you a lower chance at rarer items while the other type of token will be higher in varium and credit cost with a higher chance at a rarer item. This could be a good way to get players to buy and spend varium.


    I know I suggested alot of things but in a way, all of these are connected. If you feel as if any of these suggestions may go well with your suggestion then feel free to us it. Also could anyone with knowledge of flags/tokens make a suggestion on it? I would but im short on time right now.




    • Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/26/2016 22:28:46)

    I can only wish Mecha good luck going through all this XD



    Exploding Penguin -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/26/2016 22:45:39)

    Hey everyone, please remember the rules for suggesting according to the quidelines stated by the OP. I'm mainly referring to the thing where you should split up each individual suggestion into a separate post. No single suggestion should be longer than approximately 200 words. Avoid congregating all your suggestions into a single post. It makes it a lot easier for others to quickly address by simply referring to the number of each individual suggestion rather than the # of the post.

    As another note this is a balance suggestion thread. Stuff related to factions and other things that don't have an impact on battle mechanics or anything of the like shouldn't be posted here. Another thing worth mentioning is if you provide a solid rationale/reasoning for why you think your suggestion would be good to implement, it goes a LONG way in helping the staff decide whether or not your suggestion is viable. Just stating what you want to happen and giving a weak or no rationale at all makes it very hard to consider many suggestions thoroughly.

    I am enjoying reading all of these suggestions! Please keep them coming!






    Front45 -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/27/2016 2:37:39)

    I have one simple question. Battle Elf said that ED never go to past, i mean passives will not be back. that means, that Ranks will not deleted? if true what matter change anything in balance? first of all balance is destroyed by become Ranks.
    People give up, because in 1 vs 1 battle someone is 10 and 100 times stronger than you are
    100 Rank player always will beat 1 rank player, no matter class and build and balance



    Teufel Hunden -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/27/2016 3:42:19)

    Is there a suggestion you have in mind? ^^^

    This post is meant for suggestions to help the game progress forward and prosper. If you have a suggestion that could fix the issue you find to be so detrimental, please post it and maybe there will be a resolution to the problem down the road! Good luck in future fight and future endeavors.

    ~Teufel Hunden
    ~Da Bomb Expert



    comicalbike -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/27/2016 8:30:06)

    lets get rid of the ranks and ranks rise by 5 levels a year



    Zitalius -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/27/2016 12:59:24)

    Suggestions by Zitalius


    1) Get rid of ranks, simply by removing those, the game balance would already improve.

    2) Buff "un-used abilites" Plasma bolt - Cheap shot and so on. Make their scaling better.

    3) Buff Chairman's fury core. Or simply make Cores removable, Because right now if you don't have 2 free core slots open, you're in a HUGE disadvantage, And since Chairman's fury's damage is so low at 85% it makes 0 sense to use, and would much rather use a different core instead, or get it buffed to at least 100% or maybe even 125% as some other cores.
    -Same goes with Delta knight armor, with it's curse aura, it's simply not good enough and no one uses the armor because of this.

    4) Do something with the infinity "loops" of rotations using energy-backup and so on, and then healing, as Xendran suggested.

    5) Buff robots that aren't used/Are too weak. There is a ton of robot's that aren't getting used, because they are out scaled by others.

    6) Raise the level cap to 45.

    7) Fix Juggernaut Make the players you go against lower levels, it's super hard to win Juggernaut currently due to their level and their builds, pretty much stat abuse. That brings me to -8.

    8) Do something to the Support/Dex/Tech abuse builds, it's simply wrong I feel and shouldn't be like that, stacking 100+ defense and using 2 abilites. That's boring and repetitive gameplay.

    These were my suggestions, and what I feel like needs to be changed, you might have other opinions, everyone does.

    Thanks for reading.





    Cyber Dream -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/27/2016 16:24:48)

    @comical

    By increasing levels every year, that would lead to more balance problems. How? well, weren't players complaining not to long ago about matches not lasting long enough? Ever wondered why that came to be? To many stat/skill points. Why not consider this instead?
    quote:


    Remove the underdog/ranks system all together
    Why? Because it's literally (excuse my language) stupid. Why add in an underdog feature to rival higher players? Because lower players are having a hard time competing? Well, start with the source of the problem before adding in handicaps. IMO, a combat rating will work just fine in epic duel. Keep the max level at 40, remove ranks, lower the skill points and stat points and lower the amount of xp it takes to hit 40. Matter of fact, add in a solid story and by the time you've completed the story, you'll be max level. Use this system I am about to suggest.
    -Your combat rating will be determined by the level of gear you have and by the amount of stat points you have within your gear, it will also be based on level a little. So lets say the max CR is 100. You can be level 1 CR100 all the way up to level 40 CR100. So basically, your cr is based on your gear at your current level. To avoid players purposely lowering their CR to get matched with someone with a lower CR. A system should be added in to detect if a player has gear or recently had gear which gave him a higher cr prior to battle. If this happens then the system will give the player's next opponent a boost similar to underdog mode which should be scaled to the difference in the CR.


    I think that along side with this

    quote:

    Class specific roles/items

    Basically, give each class it's own strengths and weaknesses and make class specific items with modified stats which contribute to both. So tanks will have tanking gear, dps will having dps gear and healers will have healing gear. Also, giving each class a base dps role seems to work out well in games. So basically, make each class unique.


    would be a great idea. This would allow us to have unique classes/skills and builds taking us out the current energy meta if fully thought through.



    One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/27/2016 16:46:54)

    Increasing the level cap further without a player pool to support the increased number of match making ranges would just further serve to increase match making times and increase the need to NPC due to a lack of players in your range.



    Xendran -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/27/2016 18:35:10)

    OWA is completely correct here.
    I was actually considering suggesting they reduce the level cap back down to 30 because of this problem, but I seriously doubt they'd even consisder it.



    .Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/27/2016 18:35:35)

    Suggestion # 40(Zitalius being 39 I assume) by Lord Ginger

    Buff Cores that are in weapons such as Meteor Shower, Exile Strike, Legion Strike, Energy Stormm Concussion Shot, Energy shot, Icy Overkill, Jack-O-Fire, Pacify, Salvage, Yeti Fury, The blood hawk special etc... in order for people to use weapons that they like, and the core of it. Like post 39, Anything with a slot that is locked is basically awful(Azrael's Bane, Frost Slayer being the exception).

    So buff cores that we already have since Frost Shards is basically the end all be all core for primaries, and Azrael's will is by far the most used sidearm core.



    EpIc12121 -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/27/2016 19:07:41)


    Suggestions:


    When you get a block instead of (30) make it "No Damage Taken" like before, as it was much more effective.
    Buff Rage when the opponent blocks you make it increase much higher.

    Suggestions others may have said which I will state here too:

    Make factions get influence per-battle every win counts as 5 influence (Not keep waiting for the wars every 200 hours).
    Juggernauts face a much lowered level.
    Delete Ranks and lower cap to 35. (Go a few levels per year)
    Agility coming back along with the removal of 10x Balance of HP/MP
    Bring back skills I.E Double Strike on Sword.
    Bring back HP Boosters / MP Boosters.
    Bring back some old equipment such like Gamma Bot's and Platinum's Pride Bikes and such...
    Add back Passive skills OR make them available to put in Armor Slot / Gun (Make extra slots for the original passives and keep the slots for the passives we have now) If you know what I mean... I think making this change with Agility/Old-school Passives, I.E Reroute / Blood Lust in equipment along with the cores we have today plus the cap going to 35 (Along with all the rest of my suggestions) Would in fact improve the game :)

    PS: I love you guys.









    comicalbike -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/28/2016 4:20:01)

    lower level gap sounds great as well as get rid of ranks, if we had a max level cap of say 35 and they revamped the game around that would that help, and would it stop the abuse of stats, we have to remember that the game was for all ages first then came to artix, but i dont care what they do as long as they try and fix it, as the game is broken at the moment



    Satafou -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/28/2016 5:20:25)

    Although i didn't initially agree with the lowering level cap (as i saw it as less stats thus more limitations on builds) after taking other factors into consideration, it perhaps would be better for overall balance things would be much easier to control and as we have a VERY low player base at the moment, it could bring 2vs2 to life again with the lower max level requirement. So even lvl 30 although i wouldn't go any lower could be a very positive change for those previously mentioned aspects.



    Xendran -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/28/2016 6:03:57)

    One thing to remember with build limitations is that it all really comes down to the number of skills we have.
    If classes got new skills every so often, even if there was less stats for you to go around, you'd be able to have different skills to make different types of builds even within the same stat.

    I agree with not going lower than 30, I think 30 is the sweet spot, but 35 could work.



    Xendran -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/28/2016 6:22:05)

    So i'm going to correct the order a bit here:
    Suggestion #39 by Exploding Penguin
    Suggestion #40 by Cyber Dream
    Suggestion #41 by Zitalius
    Suggestion #42 by .Lord Ginger.

    Suggestion 43 by Xendran

    This is a combo suggestion that has a few parts that work together to achieve a desirable result:

    Reduce stats gained per level from 4 to 2, but add these points back at specific levels.
    Change the matchmaking brackets to static ranges.
    Adjust weapons to have their damage upgrade by 5 levels at a time instead of 1. This must land on the multiples of 5, so the first upgrade will be 4 levels of damage instead of 5.


    The reason for this is that it will reduce the power disparity between +/-5 matchups.
    Players within their level range will be similar in power, then upon reaching your next bracket you get a large jump in stat points and damage.

    In addition, it provides an extra feeling of reward to the player for reaching these milestones.
    More fair battles in combination with a more fun progression will keep players coming back to the game.

    We currently get 156 Stat points from levelling at level 40.
    If we cut this in half to 78, we can then give players the other half at specific levels, allowing us to match it with a static matchmaking range:

    Level 1 - 9 Starting battle range
    +8 at Level 10 (Level 10 - 14 Battle Range)
    +10 at Level 15 (Level 15 - 19)
    +10 at Level 20 (Level 20 - 24)
    +10 at Level 25 (Level 25 - 29)
    +10 at Level 30 (Level 30 - 34)
    +10 at Level 35 (Level 34 - 39)
    +20 at Level 40 (Level 40 Only)

    For 78 bonus points total, bringing the total stats at level 40 to the same 156 that we have.

    This would be adjusted if the level cap is changed.



    comicalbike -> RE: =ED= Winter Balance Suggestions (10/28/2016 7:42:12)

    Xendran will that stop abuse builds or just nerf them a bit, by abuse i am talking about strength and support, if it does great idea



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