RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (Full Version)

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Vanilla Icecream -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/29/2016 23:14:13)

^ Maybe it's the Lore version of finches with different beaks according to region.
At any rate, the adaptation would have happened gazillion years ago, so with the combination of magic, it wouldn't sound too strange.
There is that theory that T-rex evolved into the current-day chickens.



Jovan -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/29/2016 23:40:43)

Assuming that life on Lore evolved, and was not created. How would magic even work with natural selection, anyway? The biology of magical beasts doesn't seem to follow any sort of rhyme or reason.



Shiny_Underpants -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/30/2016 0:35:47)

Well, a mutation enabling a creature to use magic in a useful way would propagate fairly quickly. Magic itself causes strange mutations- enabling some very strange evolutionary pathways to occur in a very short space of time. First rule of writing evolution; anything goes, so long as it works.

quote:

~original: Epic Durian
Not only that, Sek-Duat specifically calls Zhoom a half-elf in the quest Face of Death.

I vaguely remembered Zhoom being half-elf, but I couldn't remember if it was confirmed.
Thus, either the elves and humans are interrelated, or the fact that they can interbreed is explained away just like all the other bugs and plot holes in the game.
And now I know why Zhoom is as stubborn as a mule



David the Wanderer -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/30/2016 4:35:04)

... I can't believe I forgot about Wind Elves. D:

@Shiny_Underpants: Eh, Human/Whatever is a common thing in most Fantasy stories, and are, sadly, rarely explained from a biological standpoint (even Tolkien gave only a "philosophical" explanation).
That said, we can presume the difference between Humans, Elves, Orcs and Dwarves (and any other humanoid race) are more like those between different breeds of dogs (or even between a dog and a wolf), rather than those between an horse and a donkey. This also implies a common ancestor, which for some reason I find really interesting.

As for human/dragon hybrids (Nythera) we know dragons can shapeshift into human forms.



xelessarx -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/30/2016 5:18:38)

I doubt that DF's lore works the way real life does.

If it does...

I am sorry that Zhoom and Nythera will never have their own children ;_;

(It also kills the crossbreed theory)



LyRein -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/30/2016 11:33:52)

I doubt DF follows the Theory of Evolution.

It's just a world inconsistency I guess (how the hell do a Dragon and Human make a kid though)

For real though, I don't think Elves would adapt for literally every single environment. I mean look at Humans, we make the environment adaptable to us instead of the other way around, I think Elves being a magical species can just... exist?



Sr. dragao -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/30/2016 13:16:58)

@Jovan I don't think that there is any considerable evidence that the humans have no contact with the Elvish Race generally. We also have to consider which elf subspecie, as there are many as it was previously mentioned. In the dialogues at Energy Orb Saga we've seen evidences that the dwarves want not to live together with the humans. But, about the elves, we cannot say that subspecies such as Dark Elves, Water Elves represent all the Elvish population generally.

@LyRein You see the Ice Giants. I think they're a great example of environmental adaptation, thing that probably also happens to the elves. Though, we may also see Nythera as an example that DF does not follow Evolution fully. As we can see that her parents did gave birth of her, being so different anatomically and genetically.

Double post merged. Please, do not double post, as it is considered spam. If you have to add something to your last post, simply use the "Edit" button.
David the Wanderer.



Jovan -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/30/2016 19:50:49)

@Lyrain: As elves are naturally magic, might they not work in the opposite direction of humans? Elves are known for being environmental preservationists anyway, so it makes sense that they adapt to the environment, while humans adapt the environment itself.

@dragao: We do have proof that humans have little contact with elves. Firstly, ice elves and the humans of Dragesvard were enemies; secondly, the wood elves are so reclusive that we have only ever met one; thirdly, the wind elves were so secretive, that it took a threat to all of magic in order for them to reveal their whereabouts to humans, and fourthly, Eviddia openly admitted to dark elves being reserved.



LurkBlackSmith -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 5:35:14)

As for the elves adaptation to the environment....I'm thinking dumbest way the wind elves adapted to get wings, was because they "were" close to an area that prime for relocation full of magic somewhere and maybe on a magic nexus lay line...except with bad timing and luck. This location suddenly became a windy troublesome area from time to time...these daring elves with daggers, some few rations got faceplanted into stuff that they didn't expect mostly by jumping or going into the wind,gets smacked into trees with not a lot of branches. The breeze betrayed their wet finger,etc.

I wonder what's their best delicacies to try out....wind elves using the wind to cook up fresh air sliced salads,and radishes.(from that episode of kamen rider kabuto) Wood Elves with their exclusive wines,Ice Elves with something ice related to eat(since we got ice giants now to figure out their food),water elves with quick made bites from sea plants,dark elves with...uh...idk, extinct sand elves with sun dried sunspike jerky and beetle, earworm roasting.



Mordred -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 10:18:05)

@David: While it was more about AQ, Falerin of the AQ staff explained that humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, drakel and (maybe even) dragons were able to intermingle to produce offspring because they are all different genera of the same species. I'd pull up the post(s) now, but they may have been purged and not archived. I'll have to go look for them. And yes, it was more in relation to AQ, but the logic is sound and would carry over for DF easily.

quote:

ORIGINAL : Elryn

Date unknown. Suspected a few years from current date (August 22nd 2011). Falerin on the species of lore



quote:

ORIGINAL : Falerin

They do.... Drakel are genetically close enough to Dwarves, Humans, Moglin, Elves, Orcs and Dwarves to interbreed and produce fertile offspring. The Moglin are the only more distant race. They ARE HUMAN. In a way this parallels the idea of metahumanity from games like shadowrun, or the concept of the humanoid races of Star Trek.

One might think of it something like this:

Homo sapiens spp.
Homo sapiens var. ulgathi
Homo sapiens var. elani
Homo sapiens var. draconi


Credits to Lkeas




LyRein -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 13:52:16)

@Mordred

How would one get from this, to this?



David the Wanderer -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 14:01:07)

@LyRein: Well, you see, it's a complicated process spanning thousands of years, perhaps even millions, which involves complex and sometimes hard-to-define situations...

Just kidding. The answer is, as always, MAGIC! And I'm not joking: I'm pretty sure magic could alter living beings to the point they stop even barely resembling their original form. Remember that when Nythera was a kid, she managed to turn a bunch of kids into Sneevils.



Jovan -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 14:46:55)

Fantasy genetics are insane. Behold as I demonstrate using my 3.5 Monster Manual. A lycanthropic fiendish half-red dragon half-elf vampire. 25% human, 25% elf, 50% dragon, from Hades, bitten by a werewolf, and then turned into a vampire. This is all legal by the rules. Thinking about it makes it worse, just accept it.



RusticMetal -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 15:04:17)

How much does your DM hate you, Jovan?

That's pretty nuts, Mordred. I would hate to be a systematist in Lore. Also lol "Dwarves, Humans, Moglin, Elves, Orcs and Dwarves" someone likes dwarves a lot.



dragon_monster -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 17:17:18)

This makes me curious on what would happen if a ice elf and a wind elf had a child will he be one of the races or a mix of both.
Actually I do not know what in D&d will happen if 2 different races of elves had a child also.



Shiny_Underpants -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 22:03:57)

^The child would still be an ice elf, but with air bubbles.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 23:12:38)

^ Ehhhhh thats assuming ice elf is a dominant gene which i doubt the more likely answer is the magic would intertwine making a new kind of elf.



Shiny_Underpants -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (10/31/2016 23:27:36)

^It's not actually. If Dark and Light become Dusk elves, then naturally a cross between ice and air elves would be ice with air bubbles. How big the air bubbles would be would depend on what proportion of each type of elf the elf has in their genes.
Yep. That's how genetics works.
in fantasy


Actually, sort of reminds me of that weird alchemy game that was popular a few years ago...



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (11/1/2016 2:29:13)

^ wouldn't air and water make bubble elves while air and ice make snow elves?



Jovan -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (11/1/2016 13:33:40)

@Mordred: I just took a close look at that post, and now I'm imagining a drakel-moglin crossbreed. Ugh.[:'(]
@RusticMetal: Fortunately I have never been in a game where such a misbegotten creature has appeared, though in one game the party had a good-aligned skeletal dragon-man as a cohort. He was pretty cool. I was just using an industry standard as an example.
@Shiny: Should a Wind/Ice Elf be called a Blizzard Elf or a Snow Elf?



Shiny_Underpants -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (11/1/2016 21:14:37)

^&^^
Do you guys really think I thought that far ahead?



Vanilla Icecream -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (11/2/2016 4:10:53)

Then a Fire + Water elf would be a Steam elf.... Interesting, but I don't really want to imagine it.



Shiny_Underpants -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (11/2/2016 5:00:45)

I got a *Click *Click *Tsssskk, Steam Heat

quote:

~General discussion forum rules
Do not post in a thread unless you have something to add to the discussion at hand (put some effort into your replies to a topic rather than posting short 1 or 2 word response, it is a general discussion forum).
Do not post off-topic chatter

Um, let me rephrase that. I meant

This is the problem; as I stated earlier (and I don't believe I am mistaken), even if each combination has only one type of elf, (and as we've shown above, it doesn't necessarily), that still makes 44 different types. And we know that there are others; wood elves, sand elves, bacon elves.
Where would a steam elf live? Also, how do fire elves (who, if they exist, presumably do so in very hot climates, i.e. volcanoes) even come into contact with water elves (who presumably can't survive such ridiculous temperatures as the fire elves require)?
I somehow feel as though a steam elf would be an impossibility, even if that issue were overcome, due to vast genetic differences (being made up of fire+being made up of water=unstable chemical reaction with low chance of emergence).

So then we have to incorporate which elves can't possibly exist. While it makes less possibilities, it actually makes things more complicated. More
quote:

unexplained etiquette and LORE, which could confuse the player

Alas.



dragon_monster -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (11/2/2016 6:09:58)

Well ice elves can live in warmer climates its not impossible for fire elves to go to the beach even if not touching the water. And water elves can live on on also I hope so problem solved. Their not that dependent on their element to survive.



Lord Run -> RE: How many kinds of elves are there? (11/2/2016 21:43:43)

the same as humans we have black humans white humans asians and arabians and jews they are many kind of humans so what so supriseing with many kinds of elfs?



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