No Priest/Healer? (Full Version)

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RainyKnight -> No Priest/Healer? (12/8/2016 4:00:26)

Very disheartening to see there isn't any support options in AQ3D is there a reason why the Healer isn't in the starting pool of classes?

I'm just wondering because Priest was the first class I ever picked in an Artix game.




overdead -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (12/8/2016 17:55:20)

I can find the link anymore but just trust me on this. Cysero said back in alpha (I think.. A long long time ago) that healer was really not put in game because it would be "too easy" to kill mobs. Or something like that. The game would be too easy.

So yeah. Healers aren't getting in-game anytime soon.




HeroKae -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (12/9/2016 4:37:05)

Artix said we will get a Healer class, and it will be before Paladin. Paladin would be the third class after Guardian, with Alpha Pirate and Dragonslayer coming first, but this was mentioned during closed beta, they probably changed plans.




Vypie -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (12/9/2016 8:16:05)

Another reason is that having pure healer class would make the game very unbalanced.

It would make every boss battle stupidly easy.
With one or two healers(depending on the fight), you could basically guarantee victory, even if it means sacrificing on damage dealt.
Bosses would never pose a threat anymore, until mana ran out, that is. But you can just add a third healer to help ease your mana consumption, and mana regen may sustain all healers indefinitely.

To counter this, you can always make the bosses hit VERY hard. Then, the healers have to work harder, and will run out of mana at some point.
But then it makes any other class setup underpowered. This would make healers/tanks mandatory.

And its not fun to have a super easy battle while you have mana, to then suddenly have your tank die in 3 hits, followed by each team member dying in two or less, because you ran out of healing.
This happens in 'Word of warcraft' - The tank dies, and then there's no fight back: Everyone else is basically one-shotted in seconds.
Its not a fun thing, to lose your mana.

But lets say healers have mana regen to sustain themselves indefinitely. (Like World of Warcraft nowadays) Now you can just keep the tank and the group alive as long as you want. This creates a problem where the boss becomes easier the more healers you throw in.
They solved this problem by making the bosses go into "Enrage" mode after 5-10 minutes. This causes the boss to go nuts and massacre everyone instantly. In this way you still need to have enough damage dealers to not reach that timer.
This is not an optimal or fun mechanic, as it doesn't solve the original problem.


Here's some better solutions:

-Make healing an occasional thing. A spell with a cooldown, Small health regen as a buff, etc. This way, combining mage's shield and attack reduction from other classes, you can still make your tank survive better, without having to make bosses OVERPOWERED.
Make it so that these healing spells cannot be constantly spammable. While not healing, you would be also attacking the boss, as the healing would be just another tool in your arsenal.
This fits the idea that any group can technically achieve victory, without the classic need of a tank+healer(s).

-Make boss mechanics be more than just a simple combat of 'stats' vs 'stats':
Imagine a boss that summons a plague-filled Undead. You have to quickly kill it before it explodes. If you exceeded on healers, you wouldn't have enough damage dealers, and the plague explosion would kill someone instantly.
Mechanics like this can make battles a fair fight that you can't bypass with multiple healers, without having a timer in your battles.
Other mechanic can be of a boss that grows in power the longer the battle goes on. A gradual increase that incentives players to kill it as quickly as possible, but with enough healing to handle the early, easy part.




RainyKnight -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (12/9/2016 16:28:24)

I don't think healers would make the game unbalanced, literally all MMO RPGs have a support/healer class. I think healers could be balanced if they had 1 heal skill, 2 buff skills, and 1 damage skill. No mana regen.




PhoenixN7 -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (12/9/2016 17:26:05)

quote:

with Alpha Pirate


A kickstarter reward that hasn't even been mentioned since. Have they forgotten about it? It would feel like they've scammed the backers if if has been scrapped since a class was promised within the tier system.




orc orc orc -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (12/9/2016 22:08:51)

@above Neither have the Early Access Dragonslayer, Ninja nor Paladin have arrived for the respective backers. I have a feeling Dragonslayer is next to the list with the Ashfall release which will come later this month. With a sizable list of classes on the way it's best to wait. That being said, Alpha Pirate is likely going to be a reskin of the eventual Pirate class, like in AQW, to make sure there are no P2W classes with the exception of Guardian.

If there is going to be a healer class, I just hope its heals aren't overpowered and spammable like in AQW. I personally prefer a support class with useful buffs/debuffs and a heal suited for emergency situations. It could be a very small HoT that gets stronger the lower your/your friendly target's HP. However, it should still be less than that of a potion's, which should remain the go-to source for healing.




Ignatious -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (12/10/2016 15:04:01)

I agree with 2 buff, 1 heal, 1 damage skill setup. I think a pure healer might ruin the feel of this game.

This game is different, arcade-ish even. It would be an incredible achievement if they keep ed it that way.




Roaros -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (1/3/2017 7:04:39)

Guardian is definitely NOT a pay to win class as far I can see. Ive played it a bit and i find it rather lackluster at the moment. The heal isnt all that. The aggro grab is useless without a way to hold it....I think the warrior's whirlwind should be in the guardian's toolkit. Did I miss something with the Guardian?




orc orc orc -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (1/4/2017 0:44:50)

I would say 'pay-only' would have been a clearer term instead of 'P2W' in my previous post.

Anyway, Guardian is the closest thing to soloing Gathmor (with potions). Its aggro skill also comes with useful debuffs. Its heal can be useful in clutch situations as it usually allows me to take 3-4 more hits from a boss at least. That's big considering it's the only class that can do so. In addition, it has decent DPS and burst with its first two skills. Guardian also runs out of mana slower than other classes from my experience. I find it to be arguably the best bossing class in the game. Don't get me wrong, Mage has the shield, Warrior has the buff, and Rogue has the DPS, but Guardian has the survivability over the rest while retaining decent DPS. It's also the only tank class in the game so far, though that will likely change.

That being said, Guardian lacks in other areas which the other three classes excel in, such as farming (warrior) and bursting (mage), but does have roles it really excels at. This is probably something I like about AQ3D, every class is good in a way. While we may not have a healer class, I hope to see more classes that fulfill a tanking role in the future.




Roaros -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (1/4/2017 7:12:28)

What is the strat for guardian tanking? I havent been able to tank anything in the traditional sense. Still takes too much damage with a multiple mob pull and cant hold threat with burst classes.




Aidok -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (1/30/2017 18:54:21)

I personally think having a healer in games is an important dynamic, it adds a layer to both pvp and pve in terms of strategy and gameplay. Many people also love playing healers, I do for one. Adding it could attract more player interest to the game.

Hope this is added eventually. And if they decide to offer cross class abilities, I could think of many classes Id love to mix around with a healers skill tree.




Roaros -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (1/31/2017 5:03:10)

I *really* dont want aq3d to be World of Warcraft. *HOWEVER*......aq3d should absolutely take the lessons learned from the 10 or 15 years of WoW when it comes to classes, class balance, healing, and especially threat.




King of Zards -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (2/4/2017 10:44:24)

This kinda reminds me how Guild Wars 2 has no specific healer class. But anyway, people shouldn't worry about this too much. Healer classes are just not AE Games' modus operandi, have never really been. My guess is that we're gonna get some class (maybe Paladin) with healing as a side gimmick. Or potions could probably entirely mitigate the need of a healer class.




Roaros -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (2/6/2017 5:25:23)

problem here is if you have no healers, then defense gear will ALWAYS be best for every class. any other gear will be strictly for looks, exactly like it is right now. Any healing gimmick is a wasted slot if its not a quality heal. If there is no proper healing class why have a "tanking" class? they are just going to die and get no loot. that sucks. big time. If there isnt a way to effectively tank, why is there threat at all?

See how this all snowballs into problem after problem?




King of Zards -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (2/7/2017 12:28:12)

Hmmh... Yes. But all we can do for now is make assumptions. We've seen pretty much just the starting classes so far. I'm sure there will be a bunch of different unlockable classes in the future. Knowing this is Artix Entertainments, a genre savvy guess for upcoming classes would include at least Dragonslayer, Paladin, Necromancer, Pirate and Ninja. They just wanted to make all the starting classes equal in terms of solo and thus no healing/support -based class yet. I'd say the worry is not yet relevant. I say we wait. I'm sure they know what they're doing.




Roaros -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (2/7/2017 18:40:19)

To be fair, I would be beyond shocked if they havent already thought about this and talked about it at such great length that it feels like kicking a dead horse. lol. Im hopeful they have a plan.




King of Zards -> RE: No Priest/Healer? (2/9/2017 7:44:56)

I'm sure they have. I think it would be cool if they solved this in some personal and unconventional way. A classic healer class would be fine too, but I kinda hope that they won't copy other games too much. AEGames has come up with some pretty creative solutions in the past and I really hope they dare to be innovative with this game too. It's their first 3D MMORPG and I know it would be so easy to try to replicate other similar games. But like I said, time will tell.




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