Focus builds (too strong?) (Full Version)

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santonik -> Focus builds (too strong?) (12/22/2016 14:14:52)

I reallly think those 5 focus players is too good benefit.

5 focus players are tank whit heavy attack. or heal looping. They have pretty much everything. I really think 5 focus players need something (REAL) weakness too.

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Perhaps bot need nerf ??? (170 damage to 150 damage)



Dont forgot 5 focus players dont effect diminishing effect. (very little or nothing)



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/22/2016 16:17:14)

It would be a better solution if focus was based off of stat spread percentage instead of fixed numbers from when the level cap was 32/33.

Focus builds started out as quality builds where you gave up the ability to focus on any stat so you could have some of every stat with the robot making up the damage loss. This is no longer true as focus builds can still dump an incredible amount of points into a single stat and get max robot damage.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/22/2016 16:45:56)

If robots had 0 scaling with focus and they scaled entirely off of a base damage value (that would be higher to compensate) and technology, how would focus builds and robots fare?

I'm actually really curious because if this were the case, each stat would empower a single type of equipment based entirely off of a base value + stat (strength for primary, dex for sidearm, tech for robot, support for auxiliary). It might actually be a better change to tone down focus builds while bringing up more bot relevance for other builds and maybe making new build archetypes as well.



Alphaeus -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/22/2016 17:14:07)

The problem with having robots scale directly with tech alone means that Super Tech builds would suddenly become insanely OP, and the F5 builds would become useless.

I use a focus build, so I know there are weaknesses. What I usually see is that Focus builds typically have less HP and/or Mana than other builds because we cannot spare the stats to put into those much. Any build than can repeatedly do high hits will then out-strip us sooner or later.

Also, it is easy to take against F5 builds because if you use a shield or buff that counters the damage type of our robot, you have just nerfed our core ability.

Focus works well, overall.

_________________________________________

If anything, I think that focus scaling should be extended more levels. This would encourage better spread...

Instead of F5 being the top tier, have it be more like F7 with 55 being the top balance point (technically I think you could go to F8 even).

This would require a higher top-end damage bonus (say, +200 for F7 and +220 or so for F8), but you could make each incremental increase less overall.

I, personally, would love to see something like this, because it allows you to nerf the INDIVIDUAL Focus tiers, while still offering an overall increase that promotes the true nature of Focus.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/22/2016 22:17:13)

we need a str buff



nowras -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/23/2016 2:04:35)

The key to nerfing focus builds isn't nerfing them. It's buffing Strength builds as Lord Ginger said. The reason why focus builds became this popular was the nerf to strength builds. Strength is literally, the most useless stat. It only increases the primary damage and doesn't give any other advantages at all. Like for example, Dex does 3 things, tech does 3 things and support does 5 things while STR does only 1 thing. Maybe strength should be able to ignore a % of the target's defenses. More skills are also needed to scale with strength. Let's say, for example, instead of nerfing BH that way, you could have just simply made the Static Grenade scale with strength.



Satafou -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/23/2016 6:55:06)

Yes i agree with what is written above. Whoever does the balancing for the game, no matter how many years have past seems to only focus on short term fixes for a class throughout the entire 7 years I've been on this game. These short term fixes usually being ineffective nerfs. Although lately there has been more buffs which is the correct outlook the balancers should be looking for. The wrong skills to be buffed were buffed and it hasn't actually made balance or build diversity any better off.

Strength is due a buff, you can either buff the str stat scaling or the skills % damage such as massacre and berzerker for example.



NDB -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/23/2016 12:40:16)

Focus build is basically an all purpose build which may be why they seem so powerful. It actually performs only decently against most builds, but not that great. Certainly, with focus vs focus there should be a 50% chance of winning unless one player has a clear advantage somehow. So in the end their win rates are nothing exceptional. The only thing I would consider changing is the robot because focus has rendered pure technology builds useless. An idea that might work would be to make robot scale only with technology, possible in a similar way as aux or gun, and then make focus increase the damage of all attacks by a small amount like it used to back in gamma.



Stonehawk -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/24/2016 12:56:32)

I have to agree that robots would scale with technology. Check:
Strength -> Primary
Dexterity -> Sidearm
Support -> Auxiliary
Technology -> Robot

Why not?
quote:


The only thing I would consider changing is the robot because focus has rendered pure technology builds useless.
Why is technology the only stat that works that way?

quote:

The problem with having robots scale directly with tech alone means that Super Tech builds would suddenly become insanely OP, and the F5 builds would become useless.

Just like super support builds became OP because of auxilliary?

Focus is only made to prevent stats abusing, but it only worked for preventing tech abusing, all the others can be abused. (Strength is not considered because it's the worthless stat that only gives primary damage).

I've been thinking of a new way to focus, but I don't think if people will agree with it, I'm still thinking of the numbers and I'll post later.



Mother1 -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/24/2016 14:23:20)

@ Stonehawk

That is because they have focus where all you need is to have all the stats at 45 Min and then you can spam any other stat you wish and still get the bonus. Had they made focus where the stats needed to be balanced together to recieve the bonus that wouldn't be.

For example

45
45
80
45

Would award 0 focus

where as

55
55
55
55

would award focus 5

meaning the closer these 4 stats are in balance the more focus you get.



santonik -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/24/2016 22:18:00)

This is rigth idea. Stats is rising. dont forgot 5 focus is desing original 31/35lvl players. Now lvl limits is 40 (plus ranks).


It need to test 50 or 55 (all stats) game makers need fix this somehow.





shadow.bane -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/25/2016 5:36:50)

focus is fine as it is don't forget they pay penalty of a low health. fin.



crownthedeadman -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/25/2016 6:35:44)

Focus build are pretty weak right now not OP. No class uses focus in 1vs1 (from what i have seen) and have a good win rate + obviously no one uses it in 2vs2. The only exception is jugg, as atleast I use focus in that.



shadow.bane -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/25/2016 8:12:49)

focus builds got weak ever since people started using nuke builds and it's not a used build nowadays cause 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 all they have is nukes and it works in juggernaut i mean i use it but it's so slow by the time i get 5 wins another dex spam or tech spam gets 10 + so that's about it.



Squrwogrona -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/26/2016 14:44:02)

Yep. I actually did 23 hours of juggernaut yesterday and what I noticed is that for 1 win I needed roughly 4 mins (sometimes less when you get mechachilid or another weak npc) Problem is, at least for BM, there is no good stat to spam, so F4 or F5 it is.




NDB -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/26/2016 14:50:23)

^Tech build with max plasma and super charge is surprisingly effective.



santonik -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/26/2016 15:26:52)

What i noticed 4~5 focus builds



DEX/TECH SKILLTREE SKILLs is pretty powerfull 4~5 focus builds. (not so much behind stat abusers)


Same thing focus builds can be playing very very tanky. (heal loop)


What i noticed some. players whining this. focus players is small hp and small energy pools. That is not focus builds weakness. Because Focus builds can get very high sum energy and hp if they wanted. (defence playing) Even natural ANTI BUILDS dont want to work against
defencive focus players.


Focus players can doing HEAVY damage if they wanted. Most of time few heavy hit. skill tree skills and very strong BOT.
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STR:
DEX:game balance favor this (best defence and very strong skilltree skills)
TECH:game balance favor this (best defence and very strong skilltree skills)
SUP:


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NERF that armor defence core (eternal protection) That is game best core. That give better benefit tank players than suicide attackers. This give more attack power those builds what REALLY need that burst attack power.



dfo99 -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/26/2016 17:28:52)

damn it, thanks this dude now the characters are generally overnerfed to the point where the matches consist of 2 players hitting 30 on each other and npcs is becaming harder to defeat. mana nerfed, hp nerfed, skills nerfed, str... now focus nerf?



Squrwogrona -> RE: Focus builds (too strong?) (12/26/2016 18:35:15)

@Ndb Might try that once I hit rank 50 and get a staff from the legendary shop, sold all my staffs :/

@Santonik If you nerf focus what else will remain? Only stat abuse. So, instead of two somehow viable builds we will have one. No.



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