RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (Full Version)

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Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 13:41:14)

@Baron (and everyone else):

quote:

I'd like to collaborate with someone that's less bad with spreadsheets than me about possibly implementing an easier way for me to search for things. As I always say, more options never hurt anybody. :P


I'm no spreadsheet pro, but I can probably implement a lot of the features that people might want, just tell me and I'll do my best!



The ErosionSeeker -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 14:00:07)

Items that are level 9 appear in front of items that are level 85 when sorting Z->A, could those be put in as 09, etc?



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 14:06:23)

Oops, seems like sheets was treating the contents as strings and not numbers, I've gone ahead and fixed that



Hopeful Guy -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 17:03:49)

I'm looking forward to the weapons in particular, they will be very useful for this project, which in turn will be very useful for everything. Are you OK if I use this to make modifications and then share those modifications with everyone?



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/7/2017 18:17:34)

@HG: Absolutely, the main reason for making this was so that the community can have a common resource for items that they can use however they see fit. Keep in mind though that there will be mistakes and I will be updating the spreadsheet for the next few weeks at least, so any changes you make might need to be redone later if the spreadsheet changes significantly.

What modifications were you planning on doing? That's certainly something I might be able to incorporate into the code and just have automated.



Cedrei -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/8/2017 4:01:15)

I added a defensive preset in my equipment comparator. Feedback on numbers (on all presets, as well as ideas for new ones) from more experienced equipment strategizers appreciated.



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/8/2017 14:46:35)

Okay, so I've hopefully managed to update my formula in the spreadsheet.
Now, I still need to get it up to date by adding the last few new items and all in there (Hopefully still tonight, tomorrow at latest), but I thought I'd share some interesting things.

Remember, the spreadsheet operates under the same "scoring system" as the old High-Level Accessories guide. Regardless of how actually valid that way of quantifying the items is, here's some interesting stuff due to the defensive changes.

Fierce Dragonlord Helm is back on top after years of losing to the legendary Dark Noble Helm, and the Petrified DragonLion's Noble Head (Which was under previous standards the "best" option due to having massive MPM). Some of the newer good helms like Roly Poly Fishhead, Smashed Potatoes, The Glory of Twilly and others that followed the same stat format are now among the top due to their high BPD alongside other respectable stats.
Basically nothing changed in Capes, as Nick's Toasty Cape will reign supreme, probably for at least the next 2 years still.
In Necklaces, due to the buff of BPD, Unhallowed DeathKnight Amulet/Zeclem's Heirloom increased their dominance, and nothing is even close to them. However, the far away second spot is now inhabited by Linked Bands of Nature's Bounty due to the ridiculous 20 BPD.
With Rings, again Unhallowed/Zeclem stay on top.
At Belts, Voidwoven Belt stays at the top, with Werewolf Fang Belt appearing in second spot, followed by Defender's Dragon Belt.

Looking at these, there definitely were some nice changes there, I guess. While I went through these, I realized I should note that I only adjusted the values for the defensive stats. Crit is arguably weaker now, in which case LUK is nerfed by proxy (But also buffed by being able to increase Crit effectiveness), and WIS increases healing. All these are a lot harder to quantify, so I left them as is.



Shiny_Underpants -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/8/2017 14:54:31)

quote:

Crit is arguably weaker now

^Crit's absolute effectiveness also now varies depending on the statistical probability of an enemy applying a BDP effect.
I'm not sure whether it would count as a buff or nerf if you crunched the numbers on the challenge bosses. But a high crit rate is going to seriously increase your chances against a boss with heavy BDP defence, or a spammy BDP shield, for example.



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/8/2017 15:22:59)

And that's why it's kinda arguable. Crit's strength was nerfed for most classes, but since the PBD thing exists, it's very much debatable how much of a nerf it was in the end. If we go with the the explanation Verly gave in the initial DNs, it's counteracted by that, but it was also nerfed to hinder bursty classes, so I feel like it might end up slightly worse off overall.



Hopeful Guy -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/9/2017 6:55:39)

I've FAQed this topic because it's useful in the long term for everyone. -Hopeful Guy



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/9/2017 7:23:17)

Alright, for what it's worth, here it is: The Spreadsheet
Now, I didn't really make sure that it works properly on Google sheets, it looks like it so hopefully.
However, for the sake of allowing people to make edits, and have access to something I know is functional, there is a link to download the real deal in the "Updates" tab.
I want to stress again that since this is something I made primarily for personal use, there may be oddities in how things are done (Worthwhile note is the "Other" stat for all items, which I primarily use to determine the best resistances, since the thing doesn't really do Resistance+All in any other way). If something is done extremely inefficiently, that's also why. As long as it works it's been fine by me. :P (If there is something flat-out WRONG there, by all means direct complaints and fixed towards me)



Hopeful Guy -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/9/2017 8:35:58)

Pedro: I think your spreadsheet is missing Immobility for some reason.



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/12/2017 9:37:29)

@Baron:

That's fantastic, thanks for sharing it! I'll certainly be able to take some pointers from there for my work.

@Hopeful Guy:

Ah, here's the thing, while most things are automated I had to manually enter what "stats" are stored in the database. I did so at the very start and jotted down everything that I could think of at the time, but I've clearly missed a few. I thought I'd managed to include all the major ones, but Immobility is a big miss. I'll be adding it when I next get a chance to work on it, which may not be for a few days (currently have very sparing internet access).



LouisCyphere -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/12/2017 10:20:14)

@BD:
Can you post the formula you used to assign points for the items?

Google Spreadsheet is pain to navigate though. I'm not sure if we have an alternative.
My only concern would be to separate the weapons to warriors/mages/rogues/scythes.

But, amazing job BD! Thanks for the hard work.



Hopeful Guy -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/12/2017 14:33:34)

Pedro: Yeah, my project which I've been doing in my very limited time this week involves finding the optimal gear to face a specific enemy. For that, I need Immobility so that I can look at the effect of stuns. I probably won't have time till after you update it anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.



exeter4eva -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/12/2017 14:37:46)

I'm reasonably good with spreadsheets/vba - so I'm happy to get involved, if you need any additional help?



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/12/2017 14:47:56)

quote:

Can you post the formula you used to assign points for the items?

Google Spreadsheet is pain to navigate though. I'm not sure if we have an alternative.
My only concern would be to separate the weapons to warriors/mages/rogues/scythes.

But, amazing job BD! Thanks for the hard work.


The only alternative there is, I guess, is using Excel or OOC.
The numbers are in the "Values" tab. Whether they go to offensive of defensive stats are pretty self-explanatory, and LUK, the only stat that is both an offensive and a defensive boost has two separate values. It's just simple math from there. Main reason I have the values like that is that they're easy to change without going to the formula itself.



LouisCyphere -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/12/2017 22:34:59)

I see. so those without formulas just have arbitrary values?



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/13/2017 7:37:56)

Basically, yeah. The basis for the values was always with the Ultimate accessories guide.
I just tried to adjust those values to new standards the best I could. Crit got cut in half? (And also every odd Crit on an item was useless?) Well, it's gone from 100 points to 50 points.
With resistances, it was possible to quantify the effectiveness in a bit more onjective terms (Though how good the stat is to begin with is still subject to debate. MPM was previously 100 points as well, to work in conjuction with Crit. Both were effectively 1% extra damage, or 1% less damage, flawed as that might be, so they were quantified at 100 points. With the defense changes now, MPM would be 66,6 points (And it is, if you have equal coverage of all 3), but is affected by the enemy count. The same applies to resistances. Count all of them but Health and Mana together for full 100 points. This way All is 100 points minus the Health and Mana values (Which were always kinda iffy, since those aren't as quantifiable)



LouisCyphere -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/13/2017 8:07:47)

Is this the thread that you were referring to? I remember when people where using this to quantify accessories before. Man, are we getting old.

I think it would be best if we open up the discussion for scoring stats in items.

I also noticed that Shrink isn't included in the All resistance computation. Despite how rare Shrink is being used.



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/13/2017 12:46:40)

That one, yeah.

Well, it's been discussed before that a scoring system like that is sort of flawed. Some stats, basically all the defensive stats, get more and more useful the more you invest into them.
Because if that, we should probably be moving away from a scoring based system, and work towards creating something that can more objectively quantify something like this.
It would be possible to add a damage calculator sort of deal into this, but that's something I don't have the ability to create, and I'm not even sure if it's something a spreadsheet can make happen
Good call on Shrink not being there. It's meaningless enough that I doubt it'll matter, but if the monster info thing is going to be updated at some point (To include more stuff, like idk, monster resistances, monster types and such, including the shrink and all) that's something that can easily be added.



Pedrofire -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/19/2017 16:59:39)

Hey everyone, it's been a while (and my internet is flaky at best) but I've managed to put together what I think is a pretty comprehensive Weapons Spreadsheet

Amongst the more useful features are fully embedded hyperlinks in all the titles, separate tabs for each class, and a completely independant tab for weapons that have special abilities. I've also made sure to differentiate between Axes, Scythes, Wands, Staves etc. in case that information is useful to anyone.

Thanks for all the pointers, please let me know about any mistakes/ potential improvements!



Baron Dante -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (9/19/2017 21:03:28)

^Nice.
I definitely appreciate the fact that the weapons are separated by type. Sure, it may not be useful info currently, but more info never hurt anyone.
Plus, if/when I add Mage and Rogue weapons to my spreadsheet from this, I don't have to manually find every scythe and remove them, which was always gonna be a bit of a hassle.



exeter4eva -> RE: Complete Accessory List: And more (10/11/2017 14:11:43)

I've had a look at the Accessories Spreadsheet and I've created a form in Excel which allows for:

Search for upto 4 accessories, to allow for an easier comparrison of stats
Search by accessory type
Limit by level (max and min)

I need to make the combolist populating process and form updating more generic, so that new stats/resistances etc can be incorporated without the need to rewrite every time - but as a proof of concept I'm pretty happy so far.
There are also some gaps in the data (several accessories are missing a type, crit and melee defense value - amongst a few other odd bits and pieces), which need to be checked corrected.
If anyone has any suggestions or requests, then I'm happy to try and incorporate them where possible?



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