RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (Full Version)

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.Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (4/28/2019 11:44:48)

The only thing keeping this class alive is malfunction. There should be some other skill buffs.




.Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (5/23/2019 14:35:54)

Malfunction and Defense matrix are way too strong. Especially at level 1 for support builds




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/28/2019 19:12:47)

Hate to say it but this update just about killed Dex Tech mage. Even with Plasma rain working with dex again, the fact of the matter is now once again all dex moves require energy to use, and even with the assimilation buff just about all classes (if not all of them) can destroy a TM's energy making this build worthless. At least with the sidearms it could somewhat function seeing as sidearms didn't cost energy.




Foulman -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/28/2019 20:52:33)

Now that guns scale with strength again and Dex mages are even worse off, Assimilation needs to scale with Dex to counter the energy control problem.




.Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/28/2019 22:11:59)

I like how they have a malfunction working for them, Maybe an assimilate change could be beneficial, would really hurt the strength builds so could be a decent counter, but maybe a bit too strong, I guess it wouldn't have to scale that much, just enough for it to work.




Foulman -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/28/2019 22:35:44)

Str TM has everything. Bludgeon, Deadly Aim, Assimilation and low enough defenses to make full use of Reroute, while Dex no longer has a way to fight back without any energy.

Edit: Malf is only Support for CH




.Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/28/2019 22:36:53)

Malf is dex, currently.

Dex mage does work quite well in 2v2, not going to lie about that one, has malf, overload, and rain.


Yes, you are correct, dex mage has nothing when it has 0 energy, maybe they can use an energy skill or something like a energy boost on armor, but I do think strength guns were a wise choice, strength is alive and I do like that.

Dex is not much more dead than it was before, and I've actually seen more dex than I ever have in these recent updates, to be honest. I've seen a dex TM and dex BH, I never see dex BH anymore.

Maybe dex does need to give something, I know machaon gave a suggestion about what to do with dex.

quote:

Weird idea, but maybe if gun goes to strength, some of the extra effects of support (like crit and rage) could go to dex to help buff it, and then support could give a universal damage increase since that seems fitting for support as a stat. Not sure if people would be up to it though since it might be really weird at first.


Could always be something





Armagedon2018 -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/28/2019 23:39:02)

There are dex builds in 2vs2 ( Tech mage) . Someones using high energy , so they can use both skills. So its not bad after all. Now, i dont know if is good for 1vs1, but for 2vs2 its is, and if we buff only by 1vs1, it will break in 2vs2. We can not force that.




Katakuri -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (5/25/2020 8:07:45)

Issue solved.




.Lord Ginger. -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (5/26/2020 6:58:17)

[Deemed not necessary anymore]




racing.lo.mas -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/15/2020 9:42:51)

I will suggest now some changes to buff TM, the skills that must be fixed are Malf and Reroute.

Malfuction:
First of all, malf, it must go back to support. Right now malf is only worth it for dex builds: If you have any other build, you must spend points in dex to increase malf without getting other benefit than some defense and increasing overload and multy (but those are only strong if you spam dex). When malf increase with support, you can spend some extra points on support, and those are totaly worth it because you are also increasing your chance for first turn, auxiliar damage, and matrix defense. For tech, focus and dex builds spending some points in support can be worth it for what I said before, and it would also have more sence to lose some defense and skill damage for a stronger debuff. Also strength + support could be back to game (read reroute changes before saying it will be op)

Reroute:
First I have to explain something, reroute is better for high health builds. 900 hp will give you a total of 288 energy while 1600 hp will give you up to 512 energy (considering you don't heal). Also it's better if you have less defense, the lower it is the more energy you will get in 1 turn. That's the reason why reroute is so good for Strength-Support builds, and so bad for other builds. So the changes to rereoute must help tanks builds and penalize weaker builds (builds without tech or dex). So now that I have explained that, I will continue with the changes.

-It has to scale with tech.
TM has really good tech/dex skills, but they are way expensive, without a good energy control, these skills are practically useless. Generally; Dex, tech and focus have low HP and high defense, getting the worst utility of reroute. However, they also have something else in common: they have a good ammoun of tech. Reroute increasing with tech would give another help for those builds that require a high ammount of energy.

-Dex requirements:
This won't be definitely a problem for dex, tech or focus build. The main reason of this change is to prevent Strength-Support to abuse reroute and almost have 'infinity' energy. Also would prevent people of spamming tech since it would increase plasma, supercharge and reroute.




Armagedon2018 -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/15/2020 17:14:35)

Change a passive skill is harder than change an active skill. I see your point about reroute. I think same like you. Strengh support with malf improving with support, it could be a big problem when reroute benefits them a lot. Strengh dex build is already good, if we aply the change in malf, then it could be a headache.




racing.lo.mas -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/17/2020 8:05:08)

If malf improves with support, it would help a bit focus builds. Also with the dex restriction to reroute, Strength-Support won't be that good. If you recuest 42 dex for max it would be a pain for support/strength builds. Let's say someone finds the way to get a build with 1600 hp, max reroute and a decent ammount of strength-support, this build won't have any tech, having reroute in it's weakest form. If you make reroute have for example 16% of energy convertion at level max, those builds won't be getting a lot of energy.
Then to help more defensive builds like full tech or dex, you make reroute increase for example: 1% every 3,5 tech when you are below 75 tech (40+35, an ammount of tech that a dex build might have) and then increase 1% every 6 tech when you surpass 75 tech. In this way, a dex build with 75 tech would have 37% reroute. Someone with 135 tech for example, would have 16% (base) + 21% (% you gain when you reach 75 tech) + 10% (percent you gain for extra tech after you surpass 75 tech) = total of 47%.
Any way, if you don't like the idea of turning malf into support, it doesn't matter. I see malf working better as support, but that could wait, the main change for TM must be the reroute buff. Even if malf stays as dex, the reroute buff could be enough to help tech, dex and also focus builds.

I understand how hard can be to balance passives, but that's the testers' work. Here I can only give my suggestions and a base where testers could work. Then they will see if those ideas are worth it or not, and which numbers would be the correct.




Armagedon2018 -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (6/17/2020 16:47:35)

I will ask if it is possible reroute improves with tech.




Albus dumbledore -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (3/14/2021 14:27:54)

Tech mage defense is WEAK, we need to bring back tech mage into the battlefield more with more than few known builds "caster, strength, dex"

So, TechMage needs little bit work:

1- Buff Nanotech shield as fast as possible, buff the damage reduction % not the stats boost.

2- nerf the plasma defense ignoring to 10% and turn it to resistance ignore "hello it is an energy attack"

3-Technician improves with support not dexterity, high dex builds can produce a lot of tech in that skill so it needs some balance and make it improve with support.

4-bludgeon should not be only physical but it depends on the version of the weapon you are using, and the defense ignore should be defenses ignore for both defense and resistance.





CactusChan -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (3/14/2021 20:28:31)

In response to the previous post:

1. To be honest, Nanotech Shield just needs to be a replaced with straight-up physical shield. CH had the exact problem TM is currently having before Nanotech was moved to TM and Defense Matrix to CH. Both classes thrive on having tons of resistance, so a physical shield is necessary to balance it out. Having a hybrid shield mitigates overall damage, but the difference between defense and resistance remains the same, resulting in low defense being just as exploitable as before. This is exacerbated even further by TM having an energy shield, which can further widen the canyon between def and res.

2. I'm not opposed to nerfing the resistance ignore slightly, since Bolt is already a strong skill due to its extreme scaling. Also, the description of the skill is a bit confusing -- it should read "ignores % resistance" or "ignores % of defenses".

3. Not supported. Even though 3 strong skills improve with dex, dex TM still has trouble competing. The fact that the energy shield is so strong due to dex improvement gives dex TM a fighting chance. Shifting Technician to support would not only kill dex Tm entirely, but make str/supp TM even stronger.

4. I'm almost on the fence on this one. While you could argue that having Bludgeon deal physical damage works against str TM builds who weaken resistance via Malfunction, you could also argue that it helps str builds diversify their damage output by allowing for an E primary while having a P attack in case of a energy shield on the target, lack of Malfunction on the target, etc. I personally think it should stay as is, if only because it functions fine right now and there isn't a point changing it if there isn't an glaring issue.




Exosen -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (5/10/2021 19:28:39)

Fix Plasma Bolt from 15% defense ignore to 15% resistance ignore and buff Nanotech to activate a shield that negates a % of incoming damage; plus 10% defense, starting damage reduction by 10% plus 2 each level




racing.lo.mas -> RE: =ED= Tech Mage Balance Thread (12/27/2021 17:44:23)

I turned into TM recently with the idea of trying a dex build, but I noticed there was some inconsistencies about TM's skills.
The most notorious thing is overload being the only dex skill in the whole set up. Nothing else than it improves with dex and it doesn't have a massive damage to let you play a full dex build based on one skill. In a focus build (around 45+35 dex) overload has around 650 damage at level max, so in this case it stills useless.
So the TM skill tree comes with 1 less skill since overload is not usefull for any build.

It's cleary that dex needs at least 2 strong skills to be played. Plasma Rain used to be it's second skill, but now it increase with support.
About Plasma Rain, I feel it's ok. It makes a good combo with Malf (even it isn't the strongest Supp combo). Changing Plasma Rain to Dex would help Dex builds but would also destroy Support builds. So this idea doesn't seem to be the best, also it doesn't guaranteed dex being worth it.

Last but not least, Super Charge: the worst Ultimate skill in game. Surgical Strike and Annihilation take rage and both have a better damage scaling. Those are also a bit more flexible, they can be used in full Tech or Focus (Not the case of Super Charge). It is also weaker compared to BM Ultimate which should be similar: Maelstrom has 25% lifesteal (from bloodlust), ignore 30% defense (as Super Charge) and reduce energy by 26%.

So what can we do? I propose to change Super Charge. Instead of increasing with tech, It could increase with the highest stat you have. So, if you play a dex build, it would increase with dex. If you play focus, then it would increase with tech. The same for Str and Support.
For suppport: It won't be broken at all, we already have CH with a Support Ultimate (this one has 30% defense ignored, 30% lifesteal, 26% energy reduced and the same scaling of SuperCharge). CH has a similar set up: Kernel Panix and Neural Scythe are way similar to Malf and Overload. So this both classes can be compared.
For Strength: I would only change the stat requeriment from Dex to Tech. In this way, I dont see Str builds too strong. Super Charge needs a high ammount of energy and with this change from the stat requeriment, there will be many restrictions to play Str: Super charge requires Tech, Bludgeon requires Dex, Nanotech Shield requires Support (in case of adding it to the build).

This change would give an "extra" advantage to Super Charge allowing it to be used in any kind of build. Tech biulds would stay as they are (slightly buff if dex requeriment is changed to Tech). Dex might do a come back since it would have a second skill. Support will be definitely buffed and work similar as CH's support does. Str would be interesting, there are a lot of Str skills in TM's tree, but all of them are limited to different restrictions. So instead of using all the skills, they must use different combinations.




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