Fix Underdog mode. (Full Version)

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nowras -> Fix Underdog mode. (8/11/2018 3:39:07)

Underdog unfairmode has become worse nowadays. All these updates make underdog mode better and better. With the buff of all skills that count on stats and the buff that STR builds received which only benefits those with a rank of [15-50) because they would always go first even against focus builds, playing as a rank 80+ has become so painful.

Here's a quick fix to make things better. Make the rank cap for underdog mode to activate 60. Which means there would be no additional underdog mode after rank 60.

Why is that? Let me explain in details. Energy efficiency at rank 80 gives -10 energy on all cores. Usually, you only have 3 cores that cost energy (it's not wise to use a core that costs energy on your armor). So, a best-case scenario is to use all 3 cores (Just keep in mind that I usually only use 2 cores at max per a match, this is the best case scenario). You get an advantage of 30 energy. Underdog mode gives you 4 stats and a 5% chance to go first. That means you get 50 more energy (if you invest them all in energy just for comparison) and a 5% more chance to go first. That's WAY BIGGER than the worst case scenario of that perk. That's a huge advantage for the "Underdog". The same goes for the field medic perk. You get 20 additional HP per heal and a best case scenario you heal twice so, +40 HP. (usually, I only heal once and sometimes I don't even heal at all.) Underdogs still manage to get +50 HP and +5% chance to go first which's still WAY BIGGER than the advantage a rank 80 gets.

Trust me, buffing the perks would be of no use because of the 10% extra chance of going first for the underdog, capping the rank to 60 is the best way of dealing with this + a fix I'll mention now. The fix is simply give us rank 80+ players the ability to purchase permanent +6 cores at the rank 80 shop even if they cost varium only. This would make rank 80 a goal and not something to be afraid of. It's not technically an advantage as others can still purchase the cores but as limited versions until they reach 80.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/11/2018 8:28:00)

Been talking about removing the underdog go first chance for a while now, you're late to the party... haven't you seen my posts? lol



nowras -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/11/2018 11:20:38)

I suggested the same thing as now about 2-3 years ago but the developers weren’t listening back then. Since they are listening now I’m suggesting it again. I’m not late or anything.



Mother1 -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/11/2018 12:14:39)

underdog for non ranked players going against non ranked players = godsend for lower levels. However it is when ranked players going against other ranked players or non ranked players going against ranked one that is when the real problem happens.

If underdog didn't affect ranked matches, or was actually scaled correctly then it wouldn't be a problem but they for some reason can't get that right.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/11/2018 14:02:42)

Taking away the first turn chance helps a lot! Then they can fix after that. Second turn 100% of the time is garbage.



spore89 -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/11/2018 19:45:46)

I say they need to remove legendary ranks so there wouldn't be "underdog", even if I go first, the person with like 80+ rank will win no matter what anyway.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/11/2018 20:28:10)

I don’t think you know how this works.

Rank 80s are at a disadvantage to a lot of people. Especially with the new tech TM build. As of now a rank 1 should beat a rank 80 just because the first almost every time.

Str vs str
Supp vs supp

First turn should win unless luck or wrong move, or if one support counters the other. And the rank 80 will go second, which is a huge disadvantage



spore89 -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/11/2018 21:09:12)

No dude, rank 80+ with balance build with Kartherax's Darkspawn, you can take down strength build no matter what, they only win if they get lucky.
Support build can be counter easily with the right build.

"Str vs str
Supp vs supp"

Why would a 80+ go supp/str build? With like you said, it's a disadvantage in turns if they were to do those builds, but with legendary ranks, your gonna be doing Balance build, and all those points rack up into it.
So even if they did not go first, that balance build win either way.

If everyone is to be happy, I say remove Legendary ranks, so that you wouldn't give me a hard time for when I put my suggestion.

There wouldn't need to be underdog (Which gives first turn), and then game would be balanced, removing "Epic" out of duel.

It be great for you anyway, since you wouldn't have to complain about people going first if you are so "high ranked" and that hinders your character apparently.



Mother1 -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/12/2018 12:07:54)

A spore89

even if they removed ranks underdog would still happen due to non ranked players fighting other non ranked players. As long as their is any kind of level gap they will be some form of underdog. (note i didn't say rank because a one rank difference won't trigger underdog)



spore89 -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/12/2018 17:53:40)

A Mother1

Ranks = Underdog

There be no underdog, with no ranks. Underdog was made to go against ranks. I am saying to remove ranks so that they could remove underdog as well. Underdog is with ranks. Ranks/underdog system creates more balance problems. The max lvl is 40. That's it period. I shouldn't have to spend 500+ rank 80+ for crying out loud.

How do you expect to bring new players, if old players are unbeatable, using a broken system using Rank/system.

They just need to bring back delta with passives. None of this broken rank system.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/12/2018 18:17:34)

Actually a level 38 gets underdog on a level 39.


Back to the conversation about Underdog mode with ranks

This is what NW said the other week about ranks
quote:

I don't like the idea of ripping ranks out because in addition to it not being a trivial task, it would be PR hell dealing with refunds and. I'm open to ideas for fixing them. Altering first strike seems to be a popular go-to.



With this said, stop talking about removing ranks, they're weird yea, but they won't be removed...

Anyways, anyone who knows anything about HAVING ranks (like 30+) knows how underdog works and the advantage of having the 30 ranks instead of the 80s.

The higher first turn chance and the stats give the lower ranks in this case an advantage, which isn't really that fair. First turn is a big advantage, and just giving this to someone who has basically the same stats as you hurts.

Sure I can see the remove underdog from 60-80, because those ranks aren't that fantastic. But you wouldn't say that rank 50 is better than 60? I think it can be with the go first chance, the rank 50 should win about 10% more of the time because if they go first 55% of the time and the rank 60 goes first 45% of the time, that's an unfair battle with very similar stats.

And the same thing can go down the line with 50-40, 40-30 in my opinion.

I think taking away the first strike chance is the first initial fix.

Yea, the perma +6 at rank 80 would be nice just so we get to save credits, but I mean... that's not fixing the problem at all since anyone can buy the +6 cores.



nowras -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/13/2018 18:08:54)

As you rank up, build diversity should increase. However, this is not the case with ED. It is vice versa. All because of the first turn chance they get and the extra stats. There's no doubt that underdog mode is broken and must be adjusted.

@Spore You losing to rank 80 players isn't because of their actual rank. It's because of their skill (they have played the game a lot) and if you haven't realized it, their skill is also being limited thanks to Underdog, without underdog you will suffer more even if there are no ranks because their skills aren't going to be limited then. However, this day of the underdog being the ones with the advantage must end as it is ridiclous. No logic supports that.



Mother1 -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/13/2018 22:22:03)

@ spore89

Underdog wasn't made just for combating rank issues. It was also added to solve the level range issue that has existed for years withing the game. Removing ranks will not remove the level gap issue it will only remove the cap players issues.



nowras -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/22/2018 5:36:43)

Here’s another suggestion in addition to what I said up there:
Make every E-Level=15 Ranks instead of 10 ranks. Revert back the last underdog mode nerf so that it becomes:
1 E-Level difference: +1 All stats
2 E-Level difference: +1 str/supp +2 Dex/tech
3 E-Level difference: +2 All
4 E-Level difference: +2 str/supp +3 Dex/tech
5 E-Level difference: +3 All
And so on..

What’s the point of this change? It’s to simply reduce the first turn chance the underdog gets without affecting lower level players and to reduce the effectiveness of rank 49 players as well as rank 39 players. Because they usually out-stat a rank 80.



.Lord Ginger. -> RE: Fix Underdog mode. (8/22/2018 16:49:48)

Current ranks aren’t every 10 for underdog mode, check the wiki.

We should just take away the first turn chance and it’s fine.



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