Mr. Popo -> Balancing Rogues and Warriors/Mages (1/12/2019 12:26:34)
I'm sure I'm not the only one, but it definitely feels like I'm the only one that acknowledges this as a problem.
A lot of this can be compared to Primate Murder's thread. But it seems like, with the hype of the whole making mages OP and then trying to catch warriors up, rouges have become a forgotten entity.
This has become so bad as to the point that they have been replaced with the term "ranger" colloquially and thought that being a ranger is one of the 3 archetypes:
Dreiko Shadrack said:
Rogues aren't actually an archetype in AQ, the 3 primary archetypes are Warriors, Rangers and Mages. Given how stats and their bonuses work at the moment, when mentioning warriors we're also mentioning rangers for the most part.
but yeah Rogues aren't really a thing.
This couldn't and shouldn't be further from the truth; especially considering when you first create a character you are given 3 selections: Warrior, Mage, and Rogue. Your no drop armor reflects that as well. There is no selection for a "ranger"
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A ROGUE AND A RANGER
In the real world, a lot; but the issue is that what is being looked at is means of damage rather than play style.
A ranger, is pretty much anyone that uses ranged objects, essentially meaning that it is dependent on the weapon used and therefore can apply to all classes (warrior, mage, rogue). Now it is no mystery why there is a confusion, since rogues primarily train DEX, and ranged weapons benefit the most from that stat.
However, to describe what a rogue is we must compare the other classes. As far as how this game currently plays:
Mages focus on obliterating their opponent asap with high damaging spells that cannot be indefinitely sustained due the limited amount of MP. This requires strategic conservation of MP so they are not left vulnerable while they recharge because they cannot/shouldn't be able to take a beating.
Warriors do a decent steady amount of damage and having good defenses to be able to take a beating to survive.
A rogue is in between both. Rogues should focus on obliterating their opponent asap (though not as fast as mages, but definitely faster and a warrior), and focus on blocking/dodging to survive because they cannot take a beating.
As it stands, rogues don't have the means to do nearly the damage that mages and warriors can do, which is a problem since, with the sacrifice tank-iness, one should do more damage. Therefore rouges should do more than warriors. However, good balance "doesn't have to be"/isn't just make everyone do the same thing (making everyone do more damage), its analyzing the core features of a build/playstyle and enhancing its viability. Mage has bloodmage, warrior has bloodwarrior, what do rouges have?
1. More armors! Part of the problem is that they don't seem to have enough of an identity for people to even take notice to. 1/20 armors (probably worse) released are rouge orientated. There was even a perfect opportunity to release a good rogue armor on the last St. Patrick's day event with leprechaun ninjas, but all we got were weapons. Every time we fought Sham in the past we got his armor or an armor relevant to the theme of the event; but the one time it's rouge orientated, we get nothing. The Frostval Merc set is the only rogue orientated giftbox that I could find that had ever been released!
2. Mr. Uber mentioned this in his suggestion thread:
In the game, if you're a rouge/ninja/assassin or anything in between, your main character stat attribute is DEX, which makes sense and systematically correlates to that sort of fighting style. However, the only weapons that a rouge's stats can benefit off of are bows, guns, and spears/halberds. As an assassin, I own more spears than I do daggers and knives; an assassin systematically plays like a spartan which is counter-intuitive towards our intentions.
My short suggestion on this is to have most daggers/knives (that aren't thrown) have the same effect as the Hunting horn, where as they may attack with melee, however their stat bonus is based off of DEX instead of STR. This will also give daggers/knives some uniqueness and versatility instead of just being statistically weaker but slightly (but still not worth it) more accurate swords.
Also, just as an ascetics pleaser; maybe make some of the katana's stats draw from DEX as well, considering it was mainly the sword play, rather than the strength that made users of the katana so deadly.
It has just donned on me that as this would separate daggers from swords, this just makes them weaker spears, my solution to this issue would that most daggers boost MRM slightly +(3-5). Essentially sacrificing damage for dodge-ability.
Not only would this give rogues more diversity, but also an identity and more of a viable playstyle. These daggers should't have high base damage BUT receive higher damage boosts from stats, making them only viable for players who actually dedicate the stats to utilize them. This, like explained earlier, should be more damaging than what a warrior should be capable of. The reason I suggest re-balancing daggers instead of making rogue armors stronger, is because it would be too easy for a warrior or possibly even a mage to just throw on that armor and get the same benefits without the sacrifices.
3. Separating block from dodge.
The Frostval Merc's Reflexes best explain my point:
Ninjas don't need shields. Ninjas have super reflexes that let them dodge any attack more effectively than any shield ever could.
If your going to tell me that they said ninja and not rouge, remember that training as a rouge is the precursor to being able to train as a ninja in AQ (rightfully so).
Someone else suggested this concept before, but essentially having a shield gives its own boost to MRM and elemental resistance. Having no shield (which would theoretically make you more nimble not having to lug around a big heavy shield), should boost MRM even more (to a decent amount that makes it viable, but only viable to the people who have the proper stats and armor to be able to dodge a lot in the first place). Obviously sacrificing elemental resistance, which balances this playstyle.