Are stats not transparent enough? And different leans (Full Version)

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GearzHeadz -> Are stats not transparent enough? And different leans (2/29/2020 1:09:33)

So it would appear to me, a very inconsistent player since 2007, that stats only give a very vague, approximate, but still not super reliable expectation of a battle. Dexterity and luck seem to have DRAMATIC effects on battles, almost invalidating even spec-ing into other stats at times. Stats act differently with monsters as well, probably the easiest way to view in combat with dragons. Dragons of the same level have the same stats, but play dramatically different from each other. This isn't very player friendly and can confuse the mess out of new players, almost to the point I'd say it can be even discouraging from retaining any new players because of how inaccurate of a system it is because of the non-transparency involved in the system.

What are your opinions on this? Am I the only one who feels this way? Do I have a tin foil hat on? Please discuss!



xDeathlordx -> RE: Are stats not transparent enough? And different leans (2/29/2020 13:24:01)

Stats have very exact values which are known to us and there is a lot of info available on the forum such as the master game formula. They are not the end all /be all of damage or dodging. Monsters have inherent BtH and damage which is unknown to us, just like we get bonuses from our gear. Standard dragons, while statted equally have different "leans" if you will. Some hit harder but have lower HP while others have longer lifelines but don't hit as hard.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Are stats not transparent enough? And different leans (3/1/2020 12:15:19)

What you just described isn't transparent at all. Having to search and use a formula to understand the relationship of stats mixing with different lean types that have no in-depth in-game explanation is not user-friendly for new players. It's easy for older players to say 'yeah that's the way it is' because of being accustomed to the system because they were present during its evolution. I'm only bringing this up for the sake of saying maybe something that appears to be a little more precise could potentially help retain more players. If there are leans that skew the perceptions of what stats an enemy actually has then that can be immensely frustrating for a new player. Perhaps just an in-game guide giving a rough description of the potential lean-types that an enemy can have, and then maybe just placement on their in battle sheet could do wonders for assisting in newer players understanding of the game. Because to be honest, most new players will not come to the forums.



Sabre the First -> RE: Are stats not transparent enough? And different leans (3/1/2020 12:26:46)

Very, very little about the game mechanics is explained in-game. You need to rely entirely on out-of-game resources if you want to play with any level of competency / synergy / intelligence. It's a way more systematic problem than just monsters - the large majority of user-facing information would need to be redesigned if the staff wanted to fix it. The in-game information is sufficient to let you play at a child's level - which was what the game was originally intended for, so. :/



J9408 -> RE: Are stats not transparent enough? And different leans (3/1/2020 12:30:42)

I see your point here. I too have been playing this game since 2007. I personally am already familiar with the rules. But even now I still discover new things about the game.

For example two years ago, I found out amours have elemental compensation for SP attacks. Not all SP attacks are the same.

How does a new player figure that out if they never visit the forums?

I agree about having a in-game guide.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Are stats not transparent enough? And different leans (3/1/2020 12:32:16)

My concern is the fact that since this game's development and style, many more user friendly games, especially mobile, have come into existence. This game is dying and the ability to hold onto whatever new players it can will be vital.



J9408 -> RE: Are stats not transparent enough? And different leans (3/1/2020 13:11:43)

I'm not sure about the game dying. Cray a new member and writer, join the staff in 2018, I think? This would not happen if the game was not doing well.

Most importantly we are getting a Devourer Saga remake which will take quite a long time.

I think the lack of transparent stats and in-game guide is more because of different priorities at the moment.



lolerster -> RE: Are stats not transparent enough? And different leans (3/1/2020 13:37:05)

I'm not sure why you think stats have arbitrary benefits. The exact mechanics of stats, accuracy, misses damage dealt and damage taken can be found here. Standard weapons have a base of 19% BTH and Spells have 38 BTH. A level 150 armor deals 559% Base, 559% Rand, and 1109.8% Stats. Damage dealt by magic weapons is multiplied by 3/4. Some weapons give up damage for BTH for accuracy and vice-versa. Armor leans multiplies the weapon damage you deal and the total damage you take by the listed lean, excluding weapon specials. Spells/skills deal twice the damage that a normal melee attack would. Armor skills have an additional multiplier called elecomp depending on the element of the skill and the armor. Monsters work similarly, though because they can have any based damage and base BTH that the staff assigns it, its stats is not necessarily a good indicator of the damage they deal.

Only a fraction of this information is found in-game. However, this is the case for games in general. Very very few games will provide in-depth calculation information in-game for the player. This information is typically found through player testing, data-mining or, in the case the staff provides it (as is the case here), as an external resource.

There isn't really any room for "opinions". The stats work the way that they are coded, and no other way.



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