=DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (Full Version)

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Peachii -> =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/6/2020 21:04:26)

quote:

[image]http://www.dragonfable.com/images/mini/Verlyrus.png[/image]
Verlyrus:
Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium

Hey there, heroes!

It's DragonFable's anniversary month, and to kick it off, we have a very special Arena at the Edge of Time challenge: Inevitable Equilibrium!

[image]https://cms.dragonfable.com/df/images/EQUILIBRIUMdn.png[/image]

Do you have what it takes to face these two mysterious dragons? Who are they and where did they come from?

If you are able to defeat them, you'll earn the materials needed to merge and upgrade the Ancient and Replica DragonLord Helms- The Ancient DragonLord Helm is Dragon Amulet only, while the Replica DragonLord Helm is usable by all players, with a minor stat difference between them.

If you manage to defeat both of them at the same time, you'll also unlock a new cosmetic option for the DragonLord class!

We have many more cosmetic options planned for the future as well, not just for DragonLord! We hope you'll look forward to them.

To take on this month's Arena challenge, head over to the Inn at the Edge of Time by clicking on the portal above Falconreach.



Now returning and available for the month of June, the DragonFable Anniversary scythes have returned! Make sure to pick up your favorite element selecting scythe before they leave for another year!

[image]https://cms.dragonfable.com/df/images/we_pro.png[/image]



Having trouble with any fights? Have feedback about recent releases? Have any crazy theories or ideas? Want to discuss all things DragonFable?

Join the discussion on the official forums!

Want to play DragonFable without using an internet browser?

Check out the Artix Games Launcher!

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Tags: Verlyrus




mds2006 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 0:26:42)

They need to be nerfed. Hard. Especially as a duo.

I don't see how losing at least half my HP in a single hit, if not OHKO'd outright, despite using Epoch's Fade could possibly be fair or something you're intended to be able to win against.




shrike -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 0:48:20)

This release has legitimately blown me away. Truly majestic art and some incredibly cool lore (Aequilibria, anyone?) in this fight, with some meaty mechanics that I still don't think I entirely have down. Managed to take down the duo after several attempts, and I feel like this takes the crown as most difficult inn challenge to date. I feel like I could just go at this fight for hours, between the beautiful art, good music choice, and challenging mechanics, with lore I could dig into for hours.

All in all, an incredible release and amazing way to celebrate DragonFable's anniversary! It was absolutely worth the wait.




Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 1:00:25)

Whats most surprising to me is how uneven the 2 dragons feel. Usually Inn bosses are around the same level of difficulty but Drahr'Hatir (the white, defensive one) feels way easier than Drahr'Dolaas (the black, offensive one). I beat the white one easily but haven't managed to beat the black one yet.




Flabagast -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 1:07:51)

I managed to beat Drahr'Dolaas with Paladin but Drahr'Hatir will have to take quite a lot more work, it's mechanics still elude me. Certainly a challenge worthy of the likely identity of these two, and a worthy reward to boot!

@above: Funny you should say that, I'm having the exact opposite problem! Hatir's healing coupled with it's shields and buffs put me into a hard stalemate, while I beat Dolaas on my second attempt.

@below: Certainly! Between the shields of Paladin and my 200 Protection Dragon (as well as Paladin's blind), it was enough to help me avoid Dolaas' nukes completely before I was able get rid of it's focus. I also had Rotten Hardtack and Seaweed, which provided some peace of mind but I don't think they were essential.




Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 1:11:16)

@Flabagast
Drahr'Hatir all resist shield will go down after enough hits. I used corrupted sevens to take it down in one turn. Use multi hit classes.

Haven't been able to bat Drahr'Dolaas though.




Kyros123 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 1:19:47)

Considering that the Inn Challenges are based around "What if" scenarios which pit us against foes we will likely never canonically face, and considering the themes of protection/defense/healing for Drahr'Hatir (the white dragon) and destruction for Drahr'Dolaas (the black dragon) and the overall thematic tone of equilibrium/balance of this challenge, does any one else think that Drahr'Hatir and Drahr'Dolaas are meant to be representations of Fluffy's (The World Saviour) and The Hero's dragon (The World Destroyer) parents or other members of their race?

Either way it's nice to see that the staff are putting the "Dragon" back into DragonFable.




quickgold123 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 2:11:39)

Seems like the most difficult fight so far, even considering Pandora Ex, which is something. Solos aren't all that bad, but the duo looks really challenging, with the good dragon requiring many hits and the evil dragon punishing a many-hit play style, along with their many effects. Still a very enjoyable challenge though, with great atmosphere and artwork.

Only real issue I've found with the fight would be the rather high direct hit chance due to the high LUK that both dragons have. It's rather frustrating to be hit multiple times even when shielded, and the nukes do so much damage that even one hit is devastating. Admittedly there do exist ways to prevent the nukes from occurring in the first place, but it's still annoying when I lose just due to some rather bad luck.

Overall, I find it really neat how well both dragons complement each other. It does make the fight very difficult, but the mechanics are well-designed and enjoyable to counter.




Vaalirus -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 3:45:20)

quote:

does anyone else think that you think that Drahr'Hatir and Drahr'Dolaas are meant to be representations of Fluffy's (The World Saviour) and The Hero's dragon (The World Destroyer) parents or other members of their race?


The thought did cross my mind upon seeing them considering that both fluffy and our dragon's destiny were practically the antithesis of each other and these dragons aren't defined by a single element but rather essences of good and evil or perhaps more accurately in this case order and chaos.

That being said it seems clearer that they have some sort of connection to whatever was going on with the internals and celestials because of their design as both dragons have the wings of Mahanaem, the creepy eyes on their bodies from Ezrajal and the Warden, although in the latter comparison its more eyes instead of mouthes, and of course the color aesthetic and jewelry strapped all over their bodies.

Their challenge title of being an "Inevitable Equilibrium" and their pop up power descriptions makes me wonder what their responsibilities are supposed to be. Obviously to keep some sort of balance, but the interpretation of balance varies from series to series and if it seems right that Dolaas is on the infernal side of things...well let's just hope Lore never has to worry about tending to its gardens.

Either way, it'd be nice to know if their names have any sort of meaning that could provide more insight into these two.

As for the actual inn fight:

spoiler:



Ya'll pulled a sneaky with that dragonslayer resonating mechanic, was not expecting that.




Marthe -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 3:51:22)

Inn week is always cool, and this week is something really interesting. First off, I just want to say that I'm blown away by the visual designs of these dragons. They're incredibly beautiful and complex, and I think I want a wallpaper with them. It was worth the wait for just the visuals alone.

This is definitely the hardest fight so far in the Inn, which makes sense, considering what these dragons are supposed to be lorewise. However, I must admit to some worries. As of me typing this post, it's only a handful of the best players using the two relevant variants of Epoch that have actually beaten this challenge. While I'm happy about any fight that requires a lot of skill and preparation to beat, I can't help but worry about the fact that it's a calendar class seems to have the only viable shot at it. Maybe I'm overreacting and people will find ways for more accessible classes to complete the challenge in the near future. The entire Inn up to this point is able to be completed with a Dragon Amulet and nothing else, though, and while I can't speak to any sort of design philosophy, I think that's a good thing. Of course, it does make sense for these bosses to be nigh-unbeatable for the average person (not that I know much about lore, but Aequilibria-related information has leaked into me through osmosis). In the end, as always, it's up to the devs, and I trust their decisions.

(I still haven't beaten the duo personally. I've been busy and also I can't actually play Epoch very well. Excuse me while I go cry about the Archivist Ash bug in the corner aaaaa setting bonus aaa stacking to 300 dragon scout aaa)




TFS -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 4:44:02)

Loved this release! These two together constitute the hardest fight in the game atm, which I think is very fitting lore-wise (if they're Fluffy and Draco's parents like people have speculated they are) as well as by the fact that they've gotten their own board. As I've always said, monsters like this that have super complex/conditional attack patterns always make for the most fun and satisfying boss fights, and these two certainly don't disappoint. Having Draco's parents be super strong and have their own board like a 'final boss' of the Inn is might be the coolest idea for an anniversary release yet.

The crux of the fight is knowing when their rotations change; Drahr’Hatir will lose its All resistance after being struck 15 times, while Drahr’Dolaas will lose its +Boost and stop spamming its nuke each time it loses 15% of its HP. These monsters are very strong, so in order to take on the duo you'll have to be prepared to gear swap; bring both offensive and defensive item sets and know when to use each. Although these two will become enraged if you try to use Dragonslayer against them, weapons like the DragonKnight Blade or the DragonBlaser still work and will give you a massive damage boost; be sure to use them to your advantage.

And for those wondering what the cosmetic change to DragonLord looks like, I've got an image here.

Here's to 14 great years of DF and many more to come!




Dratomos -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 6:56:05)

Amazing release. This anniversary board is great, the dragons look great and are very complex and interesting bosses. And no wonder they are so hard, they give us new BiS -helm that is no longer DC -locked.

Haven't fought the Duo yet, but they were hard to fight alone too. But Epoch the Boss-killer still manages to defeat them.

Well it took a long time, Rodden Hardtack and Seaweed, some luck and Epoch but I managed to defeat the duo. And the helm is worth that time. And those shoulder pads look very nice.




Oni Link -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 7:31:53)

quote:

Although these two will become enraged if you try to use Dragonslayer against them, weapons like the DragonKnight Blade or the DragonBlaser still work and will give you a massive damage boost; be sure to use them to your advantage.


Thank you so much. Honestly, I feel like an idiot. I've been beating my head against these two all day trying to figure out how exactly I'm supposed to be able to kill them. Their mechanics I ended up sussing out after long enough, though my numbers were a bit off. But I couldn't figure out how to get enough damage for the life of me. I haven't had a quest I couldn't just brute force via element combos in so long I completely forgot about weapon passives... Truth be told half of the reason is aside from Doom/Destiny I forget most weapons that do have a passive at all because the majority of them only trigger from autoattacks. Only reason I remember Doom/Destiny half the time I do is because they can trigger off any attack. And even then I find myself going "Oh riiight! They have a buff." after tossing them on for Fashionfable.

Best I'd been able to do before was VS Dolaas using Ev. Dragonlord with the defensive Relic Trinket and keeping a maticolus rotation praying to survive and even then I'd only get him down to roughly 1/3rd before I just couldn't keep up the mana costs and got yeet'd into the forever box. Dragonslayer did a good amount more damage, but the soft EXTREME mode just murdered me before I got nearly that close. But by embracing the clown suit and juggling items like my life depended on it (Which for the duo good moglin fairy gods did it ever) I was able to beat the board wearing the 3 piece DragonKnight & using the Dragonslayer class. While the damage buff from the soft EXTREME mode made me wanna cry, the combined damage bonus more than made up for it.

Now my question is how do I get my shiny new shoulder pads to show...

Post edited to remove profanity. ~Gingkage




arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 9:49:12)

@Oni Link These challenges are literally impossible with Dragonslayer. Hatir will get 500 All and Dolaas will just one shot you. How are you doing it with DS?

Also show us your character page.




BluuHorseOfficial -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 12:09:12)

@Oni Link, I'm confused. You claim to have been completely unable to beat the challenges with Dragonslayer until you came to know of the Dragon Knight Relics, but Dragonslayer doesn't even need them because it's poison takes away 10% of a Dragon type enemy's health every turn and this is independent of the damage boost from the Dragon Knight Relics. Why were the Relics such a game breaker for you? Furthermore, the post you quoted clearly states that the challenges are not possible with Dragonslayer as they become enraged, the exact effects of which are explained in the post below yours, so... how exactly did you beat them?
Lastly, the relic toggle is right there on the board itself after you beat the duo challenge... how are you unable to see it?




Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 15:32:23)

Drahr'Dolaas seems to require a class that can do a lot of damage quickly, use few hits (after 3 or 4 applies +300 defenses), and had a good shield with quick cool downs. I am trying technomancer but the equipment shifting is messing up drive boost. Maybe cryptic?




LigerBeard -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 15:45:22)

Wait, doesn't chaosweaver do a lot of damage quickly? Couldn't that work alongside the dragonblaser?

I might have to test that theory later!




Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 16:38:08)

I think chaosweaver's issue is that all its moves are multi hit (after 4 hits a +300 defense shield is applied for the rest of the turn). And its lack of defenses though this could maybe be worked around.




TFS -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 18:37:11)

^Gambit + Dragon Scout gives you enough Bonus to hit through the shield. Chaosweaver shreds the solo fights but can't keep up with the duo nearly as easily.




anime_rpg -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 18:45:00)

Doubt I'll beat them as I don't have lots of equipment to swap around, but I have lots of the calendar classes including the 3 Epochs, as well as I think all non-DC classes. Any walkthroughs would be great.

Knowing Verly there should be at least one non-DC, non-calendar class that can win. Verly doesn't want to rule people out.




arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 19:36:06)

Techno with 5 pots and food has been confirmed to win, so it's something everyone can try. It's important to use EUD or C7 on turn 3 with dragon scout on Hatir, so he won't use his nuke as much.




DemonicDarkwraith -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/7/2020 19:41:18)

Really enjoyed this release as this is what the Dragon Challenges should have been in the first place as in retrospect, this set of challenges was full of wasted potential as instead of revisiting old dragons like Akriloth and Gorgok as well as revisiting and fleshing out old threads like the Great Dragons, it contained old dragons from other games and new ones that is based on AQW's assets as well as Thorns and The Nest's main villains, at that time, their questlines were on their first set of quests, feels out of place considering the theme/flavor of the board. (Which to be fair, Dragon Challenges was the first board in the Inn, so there are bound to be mistakes before fixing them in the next set of challenges).

The two dragons were really cool aesthetically and that there are really menacing as they have some complex mechanics that you need to watch out for in the duo, which takes the cake of one of the hardest fights in the game, as one thing could change the outcome of the fight forever. As TFS said, you need to gear swap a lot as Drahr’Hatir will lose its All resistance after being struck 15 times, while Drahr’Dolaas will lose its +Boost and stop spamming its nuke each time it loses 15% of its HP. Also, I really love the fact that those dragons have their own board as their otherworldly appearance suggested that they are a powerful force and they, along the arena, have some story releated to them (Exalted/Aequilibria lore, anyone?).

Also, happy 14th Anniversary DragonFable! Hope that we see 14 more years of it!




Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/8/2020 1:26:25)

Finally beat Drahr'Dolaas using Riftwalker (the high damage, short shield cooldown, plus the dragonknight relics worked well). Tough fight but did not need any additional potions or food.

Now to try the duo. I suppose the plan is to kill Drahr'Dolaas first and then Drahr'Hatir.

I stand by my previous statement that the two dragons feel wildly unbalanced (which is ironic given the challenge is called the balance). Drahr'Hatir is way easier.

Is the only difference of the new cosmetic for dragonlord a new shoulder pauldron?




1997p3 -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/8/2020 4:59:41)

Whew, nice




Marthe -> RE: =DF= June 6th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Inevitable Equilibrium (6/8/2020 7:59:44)

It's almost 5 AM and I've spent hours bashing my face at the duo with Arch. Huge huge pain, but eventually I managed it. Don't try it for yourself though, please. Just use an Epoch.

I've solidified some of my opinions since my last post now that it's been another day or so. I'm glad my fears that it was necessary to have a calendar class to beat it were unfounded. Technomancer puts up a strong performance, as it tends to do. I think the dragons in their current state are difficult but interesting to fight, and don't deserve direct nerfs. It reminds me a bit of Pandora EX, but harder, due to the fact that you have to react to the RNG rotations, while Pandora has zero RNG. The one thing I think deserves looking at isn't specific to the fight, exactly - it's direct hit.

Direct hit as a mechanic usually doesn't matter, and hasn't mattered in the past. However, these dragons both have a high amount of LUK, as well as attacks that are extremely punishing if even one hit leaks through. For example, Drahr'Dolaas has a Null damage nuke that you need to shield, because even one single hit will oneshot you. It's perfectly possible to do so, as long as you stack your MPM high enough and/or blind it - but even if you're completely protected from natural hits, a direct hit will still kill you, and there's nothing you can do about it. With 8 hits and high LUK, there's around a 1/3 chance that at least one hit will leak through - so every time it uses it, you roll a three-sided die and hope you don't auto lose. Either you get lucky or you toss the run, and that's only the most egregious example of direct hit in this fight. I think that while the mechanic does technically add to the difficulty of the fight, direct hit is like Nintendo Difficulty - artificially inflated and not pleasant to play against. (This was an issue with Reaver, too.) I believe this detracts from a fight that is largely fair and that has a good deal of player interaction ability.

That said, I must praise the fight and its mechanics as a whole. The dragons are still beautiful, of course, which makes staring at them for long periods of time trying to figure out a strategy much more pleasant. Their mechanics and interaction are remarkably complex and involved, but make sense once you know how they work. It's amazing work from Verlyrus, and I appreciate his efforts to give us Inn fights like these.

As a side note about the helm - while the level 90 version of the helm is a very slight upgrade to FDL, it amuses me that anyone who can beat this challenge has no reasonable use for it. It's the hardest challenge out there, so what are you going to use the helm for, other than as a trophy? However, the level 70 helm is a slight downgrade from FDL, and is eminently reasonable to acquire. The solo versions of the dragons are difficult, yes, but I believe that for the average player they're possible to defeat. FDL being DC and far and away the best helm for so long has been problematic, and it's great that there's an Inn alternative now. (The NDA helm makes me scratch my head, though. If a NDA somehow beats the duo then I'll eat TFS's shoe.)




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