=DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (Full Version)

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Stephen Nix -> =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/20/2020 13:14:19)

quote:

[image]http://www.dragonfable.com/images/mini/Verlyrus.png[/image]
Verlyrus:
Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1

Hey there, heroes!

This week in DragonFable, we have the first part of the Swordhaven Rift finale: Sunfall: Part 1. Everything is in place for the final attack. The Golden Hand is ready to close the Proclamation rift, but there's still the matter of the massive tytan lighting up the skies above Swordhaven. The Alliance has come up with a plan, and you're at the center of it... Let's just hope it works.

[image]https://cms.dragonfable.com/df/images/SUNFALLdn.png[/image]

To play this week's release, head over to Book 3 Swordhaven, and then to your Alliance camp.



I'd also like to take some time to address the concerns about releases being delayed. Unfortunately, with the current state of the world, personal emergencies and a variety of stresses and anxieties affect many, many people.

We as developers are not immune to this, and we have been doing our best with these considerations in mind.

With this week, Dove's internet went out on the release day, and did not return until the next. That was something completely out of our control.

We appreciate the kind words and thoughts, but we don't believe that delays will become regular. These past few weeks have just been a perfect storm of things coming together.

We hope you'll understand that in these difficult times, unpredictable things pop up more frequently. We've always been adaptable, and we will continue to do so. If that means delaying when necessary, we will. But we will always attempt to release on time.

As always, we thank you for playing DragonFable, and your support.



Having trouble with any fights? Have feedback about recent releases? Have any crazy theories or ideas? Want to discuss all things DragonFable?

Join the discussion on the official forums!

Want to play DragonFable without using an internet browser?

Check out the Artix Games Launcher!

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Tags: Verlyrus


Hmmm Catapult or Dragon...decisions...




Alm Nullamors -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/20/2020 14:12:13)

June 2020 just hasn't been a great month for DF devs, huh? That's alright, things in the Real World™ are indeed very strange and weird right now. Thank you for continuing to push out fantastic weekly releases despite all the personal hiccups and general craziness going on. I and many others greatly appreciate the slices of joy you bring to our weekends. [:)]




AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/20/2020 14:54:29)

It's really understandable that there have been some delays due to the Real World craziness. Thanks to Verly and Dove for pushing out weekly releases nonetheless!


As for the quest... wow, we're really continuing the "story bosses aren't pushover" theme, aren't we? The boss in this quest reminded me of Siofra from the Nest Finale in terms of difficulty. At least you don't have to fight all the mooks to get to it again if you die.




10speed12 -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/20/2020 15:00:44)

My reaction to the boss:"What the Heck? I thought we already had our inn challenge boss of the month already?"
Edit: Also, hope everyone on the team can keep their IRL health up, and if that means you have to temporarily change release day from Friday to Saturday, then I think I can live with that compromise.




Dratomos -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/20/2020 17:22:03)

I really don't mind delays, I would rather have bugfree and tested release from devs that have rested enough than release that was done with hurry and anxiety. Thanks Dove and Verly!

spoiler:

As for the quest itself, the boss was definitely a challenging one, but story bosses should be, if they are in the end of a questline or saga. I liked it and it seems our Hero isn't as sure anymore doing hero-work, as he/she was in Book 1. An interesting change, but welcome one.


Waaaacccc wwwaaac wwwwaaaaccccc! (Fixed your tag) - Nix




Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 0:41:50)

I could see the boss (with updated mechanics) in the Inn. Like how Archdryad Malydrys appeared on the pale sea and then the Inn.




draugelisx5 -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 4:35:39)

Well this is the end for me, this game is more and more dragon amulet friendly, now even saga quest isnt posible without DA, ( same was with "leaving the nest"). You lost one more player, good luck and bye.




LurkBlackSmith -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 4:44:38)

I'm fine with the delays because of the real world mess and awesome release.




DioHasZero -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 6:12:45)

Just caught up with the main storyline- wow!!! Incredible work!! The animation is absolutely top tier, it's thrilling to see how much it's gotten honed and advanced and all that jazz! (The designs for creatures are really awesome, too!)
Delays are completely fair, you don't owe us any absolutes- especially now!

The boss fight
spoiler:

was tricky but I figured out the pattern in time to beat it on my first go, phew! (It was still close, but that made it exciting!)
I appreciate that even the Hero is being shown to have their doubts, or feel the pressure of everyone's expectations, hopes, and to carry all their fears. It makes the protagonist even more sympathetic, considering they're 'You' and all, so I love it! Just have to get something off my chest: MAN I AM SO WORRIED ABOUT WHAT'S TO COME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The story for Book 3 has been very intense, but I matured along with it so I feel like I can handle it. I only put off keeping up with the story so I can take the intensity in one swoop when possible, instead of spreading out my adrenaline, haha. You've done a lot to make the game more friendly for non-amulet players, and the ones who can't afford to buy DCs on the regular- even if you hadn't, I love this game so much that I hands down tell my friends that it's my #1 favourite. (I keep trying to get them to play, but alas, we're all crazy busy in these times, aren't we?)

I wish you all well, and please know that we players want you to pace yourselves and we understand that real life is priority! Stay safe, stay healthy!
(Oh, and happy Father's Day to any fathers!)




Flabagast -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 6:20:16)

We appreciate you being so dedicated to the release schedule, Verly and Dove, despite these strange times. Health and safety first!

The boss was a.. long fight (especially with Paladin X.x) but very manageable.

spoiler:

Also, I can't help but notice Kara's concern. Her dialogue in the war camp, her hesitation in this quest and the recent story rewrite makes me think she has more history with Jaania than she's let on in the past. Maybe future releases will reveal more information.




arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 6:58:44)

@draugelisx5 I tested out various classes against the boss and one of them was base mage. Admittedly, I have a DA, but as an NDA player, you just have to play more defensively than I did. Maybe even get more light res, plenty of NDA options available. You can also get extra potions through the Exaltia tower choices.




The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 9:37:44)

You can beat the boss as an NDA pirate with terrible gear.
I'm tired of seeing story bosses needed when they have solutions. Cryoballs was the same.




BluuHorseOfficial -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 12:18:54)

Some of y'all's should stop whining because you can't be bothered to put in the bare minimum effort required to beat a boss fight. The boss has extremely straightforward mechanics that aren't even hard to understand and it honestly sucks to see people here complaining about the "difficulty" despite not caring enough to put minimal thought into the game and expecting it to essentially be a visual novel with no depth. Anyway the boss has been nerfed and lost its Immobility Resistance now but gained resistances to certain other elements so it should be easier now.




AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 13:33:29)

I might be in the minority of the more "mechanically focused" Dragonfable players, but I think the 100 immo nerf is fine. I would've preferred an "easy mode" option for this fight, but as is, the nerf didn't touch the core mechanics of the Leech.

Yes, people have beaten it with Pirate Monkey and Base Mage and Base Warrior and even Dragonslayer, but those were endgame players who spend a lot of time and effort on the game. I don't think we should balance such that you can *barely* do it as a player who knows where to get the best gear/pets for the fight.

The Leech also wasn't the final boss of this questline or anything. I think people would be more okay with this difficulty if this was the actual Tytan fight, just like Caitiff/Nest Siofra/Cyrohem/When/etc are more acceptable precisely because they're final bosses for their respective story lines. As is, I don't think having a final boss-tier fight in the middle of the story makes a lot of sense flavor-wise.






LurkBlackSmith -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 14:55:28)

Well for the boss you have to play defensively and for me, I as nda used deathknight as my choice without the extra potions, so the first attempt forgot to switch pet dragon's element from light to water before the nerf and battle the boss, second attempt forgot to use soul slash and final, third attempt won with some health healed above the boss.




Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 17:27:27)

Difficulty in DragonFable is a difficult balance to reach. There is a very wide range of skill and power levels across the playerbase, and making something that is fun and impactful for all of the above is no easy task.
However, that's my job.
Regarding specifics:
First, NDA vs DA vs DC
I've made it known previously that my personal view is that NDA is a very generous demo. I view having a Dragon Amulet is the full game, and DC items as extras and bonuses.
This results in there being a large gap in terms of capabilities between NDA and DA players. The result of this being that something that is viewed as "a light challenge" for DA players could end up being very difficult for NDA players. However, balancing for NDA players makes everything just a faceroll for DA players.
As I've said, I view having a Dragon Amulet as the full game. Therefore, I balance around the full game.
That said, if story stuff does end up being impossible for NDA players, I'm not afraid to go back and make adjustments.

Second, making an "Easy Mode"
This is something I've done in the past, or gone back to do when I've had time in the past. On the one hand, it's a significant amount of work that needs to be done. On the other hand, I do recognize that there are players who are disinterested in more complex mechanics.
I've been considering implementing a "Story Mode" toggle option that would reduce enemy health and damage and possibly other effects (outside of the Arena and pvp, of course). But this comes with its own challenges and concerns. Would such an option just be abusable to farm quests faster? Would such an option just become "NDA mode"? I feel that such a project would bring up more issues than solutions. It would be possible to get those issues sorted out, perhaps, but not without great difficulty and investment of resources (and there are many other projects going on that demand attention, along with weekly releases).

Ultimately, balancing across such a wide series of skill levels, play styles, and expectations is a challenge. There's only one of me, and I can only use my best judgement and what feedback I get from testing to make the best decisions about it that I can. I did not feel that this fight was too difficult mechanically. It was absolutely nowhere close to being an Inn Challenge.
Removing the immobility resist gives one more way to counterplay its mechanic, and I think that is very fair. As always, I'm not so prideful as to imagine that I'll get everything right the first time. I'm more than happy to make reasonable adjustments and additions as needed.

Emphasis on reasonable. I obviously don't think every fight being an Inn Challenge would be fun, just as I don't think every fight being a cakewalk would be fun. Hence, balance.

As always, I appreciate all feedback. Doesn't mean I agree with it all the time, but I do appreciate it.




EdyMaster -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/21/2020 21:27:40)

I played for many years as an NDA and I know how much more difficult and limited everything is. Still, I don't think an "Easy Mode" or anything like that is necessary and I believe that occasional challenges are welcome from time to time. I would prefer to have more options for approaching the NDA than having nerfs in quests/boss. Things like Necro Paragon Cape, Exalted Unity and dragon challenge weapons were a big jump for NDA players and I would like to see more of these items available for these players. I think it doesn't hurt that the game has good options for NDA items (with DC tag for free storage for DA players) from time to time, even if behind a challenge like Inn. Other options like artifacts for base classes or revamp of old classes as in the case of Technomancer they are also of great help to NDA players.




raylas -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/22/2020 0:23:26)

Woof.

That thing gave me a pretty solid fight, almost died, actually. Chaosweaver is decidedly NOT a good choice for fighting this thing, just a heads up.

I wanna field test some other classes against it. Oddly, I feel like Pyromancer might do REALLY well, but I don't have that class to check at the moment.

Fun fight, looking forward to see where next week takes this.





AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/22/2020 0:51:24)

I actually think Chaosweaver is a fine class to use with SF Ice, shown Ice Scythe, and a 600 point Magic/Mischief/Prot dragon (or if you have Verraad and end game offensive gear. [;)] I used it to farm the belt (though it took me a solid 45 minutes to finally get the 90 belt).

Pyromancer seems really rough because 200 Fire Resist. If ChW doesn't work with you, I'd recommend trying Technomancer or another more "balanced" class, with a short cooldown shield, decent damage output, and ideally a heal.




DioHasZero -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/22/2020 12:47:57)

The 100 immobility resist was fair to me, I feel like a lot of minibosses tend to have it- I was actually expecting it! I got lucky on my go through (lvl70 Ascendant, my highest level character by far) and managed to stun the miniboss near the end, so I survived the last few turns with my very very little health. Hooray me! I thought it was exciting!
Even if I'd lost, I was also excited at the idea of coming back and trying to strategize against the worm's attack pattern, because by flailing around at it enough (surviving long enough) I figured out that I had to defend myself while it was defending with its ALL resist, and attack after it released all of its energy.

I've beaten very very few Inn challenges, but from reading the battle strategy forums I feel more confident about learning patterns and trying out different classes. Until I started doing Inn challenges I felt like I never figured out how to properly use other classes, like the formulas/attack patterns you'd want to use, or what their strengths/weaknesses are. Honestly, I thought I was kinda 'bad' at DF, but that never made me want to stop playing, the storyline is too incredible, and the community is so nice!
Quick example of my experience: My first dozen or so tries on the 1st floor of Exaltia Tower were......BAD, but then I looked for help on the forums and did everything I could to be prepared for it on my second wave of attempts. It felt like completing a big side-quest to run around and collect certain gear, and I got to learn how to efficiently use armors/classes I didn't really figure out before! (Still took me like....40 tries? Maybe more? It was so gratifying to finally beat it!)

Back on my point though, I get how the worm could feel like an Inn challenge to some people, especially if they've never gone to the forums and done the work to collect recommended gear (I farmed for Balteal's Aventail in my craze to get through the Tower!) or train up certain armors, or they just don't want any challenge from the storyline. Personally, I loved it, and it felt fitting and even hyped me up- considering the massively high stakes of the main quest right now, I felt seriously invested in just that battle! It didn't feel nearly as difficult as the Inn challenges I've attempted, I knew that a second or third attempt would get me success even if I failed the first time. The nerf is fair too, it'd certainly make the fight go a lot smoother for me if I ever want to come back and get that belt.

TL;DR
I love DragonFable, I'm not a big mechanics person or strategist (I'm still just Winging It all in a big way), but I liked the worm fight, and I wouldn't have minded if the miniboss kept it's immobility resist. Thanks to the awesome DF community, I've learned how to pay better attention to attack patterns and weaknesses than I used to. Thanks for that, everybody!

It can't be easy to balance all the difficulty levels in the storyline, because players running around in Book 3 can range from like, level 30 to level 90, maybe even more! Some of them are more naturally inclined to strategy than others (me included in the latter), but I feel like I'm at a middle-ground of level and strategy-knowingness, and I did like it as it was. Thanks so much for your hard work, Verlyrus!
It's very early AM for me so if this is too rambly, apologies.




Zealwrath -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/22/2020 14:55:23)

Didnt expect a nerf tbh. tho from what i seen around here i guess its just the reduction of immobility resist. well if thats the case its no big deal. gonna try it with dragonWarrior and togslayer. most likely gonna fail.




hpnerdghmk -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/23/2020 6:12:06)

quote:

Second, making an "Easy Mode"

I've been considering implementing a "Story Mode" toggle option that would reduce enemy health and damage and possibly other effects (outside of the Arena and pvp, of course). But this comes with its own challenges and concerns. Would such an option just be abusable to farm quests faster? Would such an option just become "NDA mode"? I feel that such a project would bring up more issues than solutions. It would be possible to get those issues sorted out, perhaps, but not without great difficulty and investment of resources (and there are many other projects going on that demand attention, along with weekly releases).


You can make it having no item drops, and reduce xp/gold gain. Even reduced to zero would be fine XD




Zealwrath -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/23/2020 10:27:57)

Ok so trying this with togslayer was a bad idea, and trying it with dragon warrior was a horrendous idea. beaten it with my mostly renegade dragonlord.




tiff15 -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/25/2020 16:15:48)

I've tried this as a Ninja, Necromancer, and Death knight. Died died and died. those 1500 point blasts are brutal.

At this point, I'm wondering how I fumbled my way to level 62 in the first place?




AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= June 19th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 1 (6/26/2020 1:28:17)

Save your shield/shroud for the nuke?




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