RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (Full Version)

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Weeum -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 5:15:45)

A lot of you are grossly overstating the nerf and being more than a little kneejerky. There are so many ways to stack damage or otherwise break AQ in 2020 that CiT getting nerfed essentially means you're going to go from overkilling things in one hit by 1500 damage to overkilling things in one hit by 500 damage. Chill out.



kamahl92 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 5:55:59)

I definitely agree that nerfing things in an online browser single player game seems really dumb. If I'm being honest his will probably be the last straw that'll cause me to stop playing the game altogether.



s_venom -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 6:00:50)

But that's the thing, overkilling is fun.
I don't know how many people are like me, but I really like seeing big numbers pop up on screen.
I also don't really always want to start stacking stuff, but just to press attack.

Also, what do you mean by overstating?
I genuinely liked this item and have been using it for years.
Was it the only item I used? of course not, I add and move items quite a bit. However, this item has been a staple for a long time.

This nerf gutted the shield for all intent and purpose and it quite likely will go the same way the eye of naab did, which is into storage or being sold.



kamahl92 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 6:40:39)

Completely agree with s_venom, I had a blast overkilling stuff and dominating almost every single fight but I still used other items.



lolerster -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 7:20:04)

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES. I LIVE AND BREATHED FOR THIS DAY TO COME.

TBH, I still think boosters are too strong, but hey, it's a lot better this way at least.

Now for that purple rain nerf and EO outleveling modifiers...but this is a good day. I can wait another year or 2.



gavers -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 7:41:18)

@s_venom
quote:

But that's the thing, overkilling is fun.
I don't know how many people are like me, but I really like seeing big numbers pop up on screen.

Many do, which is why they go through less optimal, and slower setups to make their numbers go boom.
quote:

This nerf gutted the shield for all intent and purpose and it quite likely will go the same way the eye of naab did, which is into storage or being sold.

Having a toggle like Celtic Wheel, which is widely used by mages, for Warriors will guarantee high usage, even if not by you. You say it gutted it, which shield would you be using over it?
quote:

This also slows fights quite a bit... which honestly puts a damper on the game.

You should think for a second on what you find fun.
Having OP equipment in a game lets you run through it, but it also makes a lot of the experience meaningless. Give theory-crafting a shot, see how you can do stupid stuff in the game.
At first it might sound boring, but you grow to like it really fast.



CH4OT1C! -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 8:52:25)

What a glorious day.
Thank you so much, Kam. Not only have you managed to get rid of one of the most game-breaking items, but you did it in a way that also adds one of the most requested mechanics for years. Not only that, but it comes alongside a further (much deserved) nerf to Poe and friends. I can't stress how important this is going to be to build diversity.

Of course, this isn't going to address all of our problems. For one, weapon-based skills are still superior to their spell-type equivalent, primarily due to a lack of diversity in spell boosters (for example, we don't have anything like Alchemical Unity for spells) and the inability to "imbue". Spells also, notoriously, receive half the boost of a traditional skill on most boost effects. However, for the moment, we've just managed to remove one of the biggest obstacles to change, and that's something I think is worth celebrating!



ruleandrew -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 9:05:05)

Having Booster affect mp gain when player use one player turn to gain mp (via tomes) would be a good idea.



Kalle29 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 9:06:34)

Warriors were already considerably underpowered compared to mages and this nerf removes 1/3 of the damage output from warriors. It's hard to overstate how giant this nerf is. Especially when you consider how nuking is often the best way of defeating bosses. This update really just exacerbates the already highly uneven power of the builds and I can't say I like it one bit.



lolerster -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 9:07:43)

quote:

I definitely agree that nerfing things in an online browser single player game seems really dumb.

Buffs and nerfs have been and likely always will be part of this game. Are you suggesting that item balance doesn't matter in this game? All items in this game are designed on a balance standard, and CIT was designed during a time when we had a different balance standard. As a result, it has become grossly overpowered.


quote:

But that's the thing, overkilling is fun.

You can still hit damage cap (2^15 - 1 per hit) even without CIT.


quote:

Warriors were already considerably underpowered compared to mages and this nerf removes 1/3 of the damage output from warriors.

Please help me understand why you think warriors are underpowered compared to mages so I can help you correct this notion.



thedestructivemoglin -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 9:15:12)

Not a fan of this update. Yes the shield was 'broken' due to its ability to multiply one's damage but that was the beauty of it. With updates like this, I feel that these types of nerfs should have been done a long while ago before people grew accustomed to them, and I think that exceptions should be made when it comes to something being OP or 'broken'. All this update did was make another celtic shield and throw in a strength adder and made the shield more available to buy. This is essentially another Eye of Naab story.

This doesn't mean don't fix broken items (there's still plenty of items in the game that are broken), but my point is that this was something that should have been done long ago before many people relied heavily on them and enjoyed them. You weren't invincible when you used this shield, as I've been killed many times using this, as my character is a Tank Warrior. The shield had TERRIBLE defenses and slightly reduced your accuracy, but increased your damage. To me at least, it seems stronger than normal but otherwise an acceptable shield. I don't work for this game and probably don't have a good insight to what's balanced or OP, but that's just my perspective.

I bought the level 150 version of this and it's still nowhere near as powerful as it used to be. Happy for those that are satisfied but I am not. Quite the opposite really.



lolerster -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 9:29:05)

quote:

I think that exceptions should be made when it comes to something being OP or 'broken'.

But why?


quote:

This is essentially another Eye of Naab story.


Why would you compare a shield that's useless to a Celtic Wheel effect, easily one of if not the best mage shield. CIT, even after these changes, will be used in nearly every warrior and ranger build.


quote:

This doesn't mean don't fix broken items


Then what's your solution? Leave a broken item alone just because it's been this way forever? Isn't that the exact sort of logical fallacy that you have been taught to avoid growing up?


quote:

You weren't invincible when you used this shield, as I've been killed many times using this, as my character is a Tank Warrior.


You were effectively invincible because of items like SFP/Love Potion, and I sure hope you had better defensive options available to you than CIT on a defensive build. Even the most broken item is garbage if you want to blindfold yourself while you use it,


quote:

To me at least, it seems stronger than normal but otherwise an acceptable shield.


Maybe to you, but Kamui stated in the design notes that based on the current standard, the effect is over 3 times as strong as it should be. I don't know what you would consider to be acceptable, but to me it is not, at least from a balance perspective.


quote:

I bought the level 150 version of this and it's still nowhere near as powerful as it used to be.

Because it shouldn't be, but it's still staple on warriors/rangers and even hybrids.



RobynJoanne -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 10:27:20)

@lolerster
I don't believe that warriors were underpowered compared to mages before this update since both builds used the same items and did the same thing for the most part. Armor skills were just better than spells, so mages just used ostensibly warrior armors. Nevertheless, it is true that the CIT nerf hurts warriors more than mages because mages can fall back on wizard robes and Bloodmage. Warriors can use SPells to take advantage of the spell boosters, but there are no burst SPells, and spell-boosting weapons are primarily magic weapons.

That's not to say CIT didn't need the nerf. Kamui actually undersold just how overpowered it was. According to modern standards, -10 bth should be equal to a *85/75 damage boost or *1.133. The *1.5 damage boost was actually closer to four times that than three times.

I want to ask: how has everyone changed his or her build? I've moved some points in Dex to Cha. I've been thinking about doing that for quite a while since I've always liked the Cha aspect of vampire subrace, and this has finally given me the push to try it out. So far, the CIT nerf really hurt armor skills, but it's not as if normal mobs can survive more than three turns. It's pretty fun to play around with other skills, though.

Edit*
@below
I stand corrected. However, they are the exception. Warriors only have burst SPells for two elements.



joac1144 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 10:49:03)

quote:

but there are no burst SPells

There's the Warmaster's Burst or whatever. It has an SP version for warriors/rangers.



Caecus -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 11:35:19)

Fascinating...2020 really has kept the surprises coming.

This is almost certainly the most impactful set of changes for players I can imagine. I'm sure responses will be mixed but personally I love the changes. Ironthorn has been the most polarizing item in the game to date and essentially mandatory on any optimized build. Heck, I value roleplaying and diversity above pretty much everything else yet all but two of my characters were still using it as essentially their only relevant shield! Further CHA requirements for the boosters is a bonus that breathes more life into the use of other pets and guests.

I think these updates will have the biggest effect by shifting what armors can be considered worthwhile. Spell based skills are no longer a "death sentence" to an armors viability which means the vast array of viable armors (or at least those that merit real consideration) has likely skyrocketed. This community has always found ways to do incredible things with the items we have available. I'm sure we'll see some interesting things come from this.

Also, I'm pleasantly surprised at the civility of the discussion :) A massive overhaul to a beloved item is always tricky.



s_venom -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 11:40:21)

@gavers:

quote:

Many do, which is why they go through less optimal, and slower setups to make their numbers go boom.


True, but as I mentioned before you don't have to always do it.
With CIT you could get relatively high numbers compared to the actions needed.
Unbalanced? sure. Fun? very much so.

quote:

Having a toggle like Celtic Wheel, which is widely used by mages, for Warriors will guarantee high usage, even if not by you. You say it gutted it, which shield would you be using over it?


I don't know which shield I will be using.
Also note that unlike mages, warriors have harder time with nuking overall.
A mage can equip the Celtic Wheel, use the buff and destroy the monster in about 2 turns.
A warrior will need more turns, and this puts them in a massive disadvantage against any monster that isn't attacking with earth element. The damage you are taking against 150 level monsters with 40% is insane. (without any prior setup).

quote:

You should think for a second on what you find fun.
Having OP equipment in a game lets you run through it, but it also makes a lot of the experience meaningless. Give theory-crafting a shot, see how you can do stupid stuff in the game.
At first it might sound boring, but you grow to like it really fast.


I have no problem with theory-crafting, it's just that I was using CIT for almost a decade and what can I say I loved it.
As stupid as it sounds this change actually put a damper on my desire to play this game.

@lolerster:

quote:

Buffs and nerfs have been and likely always will be part of this game. Are you suggesting that item balance doesn't matter in this game? All items in this game are designed on a balance standard, and CIT was designed during a time when we had a different balance standard. As a result, it has become grossly overpowered.


That's true, however this shield has been this way for a decade. There was no harm in letting it stay the way it was as players have the choice not to use it.
not using it is less optimal usually, but there many players who are chose to play builds of that nature.

quote:

You can still hit damage cap (2^15 - 1 per hit) even without CIT.


But it requires a lot more set-up to do so, which it takes longer to actually kill the monster in question.
Again not everyone want to fight every battle with constant setups.


quote:

Warriors were already considerably underpowered compared to mages and this nerf removes 1/3 of the damage output from warriors.


Warriors were in okay place with CIT as it allowed them to try and compete with mages nuking power.
Now however CIT is dead and warriors are going to have a harder time to mages in the nuking department.

quote:

I think that exceptions should be made when it comes to something being OP or 'broken'.
But why?


Because it's been going for a long time and players enjoy the power it gives them.
Game balance in necessary, but surely it is also important to take into account what the players want.
There was a choice in using or not using CIT, which is now gone.

quote:

Why would you compare a shield that's useless to a Celtic Wheel effect, easily one of if not the best mage shield. CIT, even after these changes, will be used in nearly every warrior and ranger build.


As said before, Celtic Wheel is far better for mages due to the build nature and it's ability to quickly dispatch monsters.
The same effect is far weaker in that hands of warriors which requires it to take more turns against monsters, which means more damage taken.

quote:

Then what's your solution? Leave a broken item alone just because it's been this way forever? Isn't that the exact sort of logical fallacy that you have been taught to avoid growing up? .


What is exactly the logical fallacy here?
The is item was unbalanced, nobody is arguing against that.
However, it was this way for a very long time and many players have come to enjoy the CIT works.
It should be also stressed that players had a choice if they wished to use it or not. This thread alone shows that people also choose not to use it.
It doesn't effect anyone else bar the player using it so there is no adverse effect from.
And taking about build diversity is amusing as hell considering not all people want to start messing with other items.

quote:

You were effectively invincible because of items like SFP/Love Potion, and I sure hope you had better defensive options available to you than CIT on a defensive build. Even the most broken item is garbage if you want to blindfold yourself while you use it


And? As mentioned in other posts, you can still reach the damage cap with proper setup right? you are still usually invincible in those set-ups as well.

quote:

Maybe to you, but Kamui stated in the design notes that based on the current standard, the effect is over 3 times as strong as it should be. I don't know what you would consider to be acceptable, but to me it is not, at least from a balance perspective.


Balance is important, but other things should also be taken into account. The sheer amount of time CIT was this way is probably the biggest reason there are people who are angry with this change,
We had so many items come out with broken power, but they were changed so quickly that people didn't say anything as it was expected.

CIT is a different story.

quote:

Because it shouldn't be, but it's still staple on warriors/rangers and even hybrids.


You know, it funny how people are taking about build diversity and item diversity, but in effect CIT will remain in players inventories because nothing else is better.



J9408 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 11:49:39)

Perhaps an alternative shield can be introduced?

A blood shield? In exchange for very high attack power, the player must sacrifice their defenses and HP.

I imagine a shield that drastically lowers MRM, drains hp by 200 per turn and increases elemental resistance by a high amount.

I know this sounds similar to berzerker status, but it is just a suggestion.



RobynJoanne -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 12:09:57)

The issue is that such a shield would be largely the same as old CIT. CIT had awful defenses (MRM and elemental) and reduced bth, so you'd die in one hit if monsters got a single turn. Your suggestion would do the same thing even if it did follow modern standards, and we'd be back where we started. The main difference would be that it would be an additive boost, which would be a pretty big nerf compared to the previous multiplicative boost. Still, those downsides really don't matter, which was one of the biggest problems with CIT.



sunblaze -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 12:31:09)

Wow, now that was a surprise update. Finally I can war without getting annoyed that I did not retrain my 200 CHA each time. [:)]
Thats some good stuff. Thanks sooo much for that.



Lv 1000 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 12:31:29)

Here's some FACTS.

An additive +50% damage CIT would cost ~174 HP or ~196 SP PER TURN.

The only way a multiplicative boost could work would be a BtH-lean, in which case.

A multiplicative *1.5 damage CIT would cost 85-(85/1.5) = ~28 BtH <--- This is A LOT. You'd need SEVERAL (and yes, likely premium items) to mitigate this.
--> Keep in mind that BtH leans affect spells so Bloodmage/Wizard robe would still probably come out on top.



Just for fun, the -10 BtH that CIT used to have is really only worth ~*1.1334 damage.



gavers -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 12:32:28)

@s_venom
quote:

With CIT you could get relatively high numbers compared to the actions needed.

Which is why it was slapped. It's an non-interactive form of gameplay.
quote:

Unbalanced? sure. Fun? very much so.

I invite you to compare your experience 3 months from now to your experience from before the CiT nerf.
I think you'll find out that while it feels really bad initially to lose out a third of your damage, the gameplay depth it enables will improve your experience by a lot.
quote:

I don't know which shield I will be using.

The point of the question was to point out how it's still probably the best Earth shield for Warriors. In a game with elemental resistances as a core part of your gameplay, having just one shield all the time possible is a bad design choice.
quote:

Also note that unlike mages, warriors have harder time with nuking overall.

This is by design (even though Bloodzerkers really enable you to be more than on-par with Mages).
Thematically you want Warriors to be efficient, and mages to nuke.
I realize that this is not the situation right now, but we're moving toward a situation where that's the reality.
First blood-cost items were modified, and Bloodmage costs more than twice as much. It has an actual drawback now.
Now CiT, which was heavily abused by Mages using old-lean skills, is nerfed as well.
Killing some of the old-lean armors, as well as properly balancing Wizard Robes (I assume this could potentially come after Necro), and reducing Purple Rain power will make the intended gameplay a reality again.
One of these steps not fixing the entire issue should not be to the detriment of the change, and I assume you agree they shouldn't be done all at once.

Edit: Also as a note regarding this:
quote:

You know, it funny how people are taking about build diversity and item diversity, but in effect CIT will remain in players inventories because nothing else is better.

The issue wasn't how CiT was the best Earth shield. It was how it was the best shield, period. You didn't need any other shield for 99.9% of the content.



Lv 1000 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 12:35:10)

quote:

reducing Purple Rain power will make the intended gameplay a reality again

Needless to say, any changes to PR will likely make it completely useless. The nerfs that NEED* to happen to it would very likely require significant game engine updates and one item really isn't worth that time spent.


*My opinion on nerfs that NEED to happen to PR would be status rollback but that's extreme



Weeum -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 12:36:51)

@lv 1000 people would still gladly pay the -28bth toll so long as the perception of having access to an OP tool remained untouched



Lv 1000 -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 12:38:09)

quote:

people would still gladly pay the -28bth toll so long as the perception of having access to an OP tool remained untouched

And multiple packages/token items, also the BtH lean would make mages even more OP which kind of defeats the purpose of having a warrior only shield.



lolerster -> RE: =AQ= Poelala-Like Boosters & IronThorn Shield Update (6/25/2020 13:14:13)

Before the changes, I would actually argue that FO warriors were slightly stronger than FO mages - I am talking specifically about the FO skillcaster meta build, where mages and warriors had the same inventory. The mage and warrior variants of that build had almost identical inventories with the same damage output using purely SP/EO as their resource. However, mages' skils cost 25% more SP and their weapons dealt 25% less damage. I know the resource bars and the attack button are more decorative features than actual functions for these builds, but technically the warrior build was slightly stronger. Now I'm not saying warriors are overall better than mages, as mages had a lot more options available to them with their MP bar, I'm just talking about that particular build.

After the changes, mages can indeed fall back on Wizard Robes and Bloodmage for damage. See this page (the Poelala boosts are a bit off, but the overall ranking should still be accurate). Let's first talk about Wizard Robes + Cutlass. Wizard Robe imbue is indeed at the top, however, the wizard robe on this page are the elemental variants combined with burst spells (Creation Burst/Destruction Burst/Arctic Tornado/Cysero's Explosive Teleport Booth/Warmaster's Burst). In order to reach the 9.242x melee damage (or the 7.16075 unimbued damage), you must dedicate 8 armor slots and 4 spell slots to achieve this (it's actually impossible as you only have 7 armor slots) - In other words, you need to dedicate 11 slots of inventory rather than the usual 8 or 9 just to have the strongest burst damage of each element. Furthermore, I must remind you that the Wizard robes are completely useless outside of spellcasting. The Lore imbue also changes the mana cost to 180% (if using celerity, 180% cost on the first cast, and 90% cost on subsequent cast for that turn of celerity). If you like big numbers, go for it, but it is very unpractical and also locks out one of your misc. slots to Pixel Ether/Mind Gauntlet (if you have them), though the ladder isn't really an issue.

Of course, you can use Generalist Robes. However, that means your unimbued spells are now 5.75x melee (ranking below all Bloodzerker + active effect and old standard armors) for 95% mana or 7.83x melee with lore imbue for 190% cost (about the same as Hydromancer + Tsunami Pen; again, Celerity will cast your second spell at regular cost). While the lore imbued effect does about 10-12% more damage than Bloodzerker + Gauntlet of Xano, you again must ask yourself - am I OK with going OoM after 2 casts for about 10-12% more damage? Despite of this though, I believe this is a very powerful setup (Generalist + burst spells), as it outputs competitive damage and takes up only 5 slots (4 spell slots, 3 of which are premium, and 1 armor slot). This is especially true for those with Pixel Ether or Mind Gauntlet. I know for many of us who focus only on meta builds consider the SP/MP/HP bar to be little more decorative features, but the cost here is high enough to actually matter. We are looking at a cost of 491 SP and 99 HP for Gauntlet of Xano + Bloodzerker vs. 1240 MP (930 mp average per cast, if we consider the cost reduction from celerity), 151 HP and 135 SP for Lore Imbued + Burst Spell.

Next, we can talk about Bloodmage vs. Bloodzerker. Depending on the setup, we are looking at about a 5-12% increase in damage for Bloodmage. This does put Bloodmage firmly above Bloodzerker, but consider that the HP cost here is 342 vs. 99, almost 3.5x higher.


Now that we got the broader stuff out of the way, we need to go into more detail - specifically, the assumptions on the skill ranking page. The page assumes you are using the best spell boosters possible when using bloodmage/wizard robes - in other words, Cutlass, Arctic Athame, etc...While these are incredibly powerful spell boosters, they are very much subpar as actual weapons. While I know many of you think of the attack button as just another pretty picture on the user interface, the fact is that it exists as an actual gameplay element; and whacking a monster with a Cutlass/Athame is a huge difference from whacking a monster with a Bloodzerker Blade. Basically, you are giving up very strong weapons for subpar weapons in order to give a big boost to your spell damage. So what if instead of using Athame/Cutlass, you used something like Bloodblade (+10% spell damage in wizard robes, 12.5% in Bloodmage, +15% in matching bloodmage.) or the more recent general booster Adventurer Figure (+9.375% spell damage)? This is what it looks like: 

Elemental Wizard + Lore + Bloodblade: 8.43714
Elemental Wizard + Lore + Figure: 8.40938625
Bloodmage + Matching Bloodblade: 7.214103
Generalist + Lore + Bloodblade: 7.1516
Generalist + Lore + Figure: 7.128075
Bloodmage + non-match Bloodblade: 7.1216145
Bloodmage + Figure: 7.006003875
Bloodzerker + Gauntlet of Xano: 6.75
Elemental Wizard + Bloodblade: 6.53714
Elemental Wizard + Figure: 6.51563625
Generalist + Bloodblade: 5.2516
Generalist + Figure: 5.234325


With the exception of Elemental Wizard Robe + Lore + Burst Spell , everything here is comparable to Bloodzerker + Gauntlet of Xano's 6.75x melee. We are looking at a <7% difference.


But wait there's more. The list doesn't actually factor in miscs. Have everyone forgotten that all spells get *1/2 from boost effects like Blood Contract? Whereas weapon-based skills get a x1.2 boost, all spells get a x1.1 boost. Or incredibly powerful Minotaur's Pride (35 Strength, *95/85 melee damage, along with a -10 mrm and -10% earth resist) exclusive to warriors that's comparable to Blood Contract? So what if we factor in Blood Contract into the numbers? 


Elemental Wizard + Lore + Bloodblade	9.280854
Elemental Wizard + Lore + Figure	9.250324875
Bloodzerker + Gauntlet of Xano           8.1
Bloodmage + Matching Bloodblade	7.9355133
Generalist + Lore + Bloodblade	        7.86676
Generalist + Lore + Figure	                7.8408825
Bloodmage + non-match Bloodblade	7.83377595
Bloodmage + Figure	                        7.706604263
Elemental Wizard + Bloodblade	        7.190854
Elemental Wizard + Figure	                7.167199875
Generalist + Bloodblade	                5.77676
Generalist + Figure	                        5.7577575


Bloodzerker + Gauntlet of Xano beats everything EXCEPT for Elemental Wizard Robe + Lore, which, as I stated above, is not viable to have in every element (I would say at most 4 elements, taking up 4 armor and 2 spell slots). But hey, by all means, prove me wrong. You are free to play how you want, even if how you play is to carry around 7 wizard robes and 4 burst spells and restricting your actions to only spellcasting.

In fact, with Blood Contract factored in, Gauntlet of Xano + Bloodzerker beats out Cryomancer Bloodmage (using the weapon that gives 18.75% spell damage against a 0 INT mob. I don't know what that weapon is) on the original ranking list.

And after all that, I would like to remind you that Bloodmage and Wizard/Generalist + burst spell have a significantly higher cost than Bloodzerker/Gauntlet and all magic weapons deal 25% less damage when clicking the attack button.


Some of you are way overblowing the difference between mages and warriors.


Anyways, I'm out. I'm at work and I spent way too long typing this out.



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