=DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2

=DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (Full Version)

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Gingkage -> =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 17:08:59)
quote: [image]http://www.dragonfable.com/images/mini/Verlyrus.png[/image] Verlyrus: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 Hey there, heroes! The Swordhaven Rift finale is here! The Greenguard Alliance's efforts are pinned on you and your dragon. As the massive Tytan over Swordhaven threatens to break through Jaania's barrier, you've been sent on a mission that only you, the hero can accomplish. Now, you've made it on top of the Tytan with only one goal: to either force it back through the rift, or stop its onslaught. [img]https://cms.dragonfable.com/df/images/SUNFALL2dn.png[/img] Completing this week's quest will allow you to use the resources earned during this quest arc to create a faction specific helm that is upgraded with Proclamation Medals. Will you and your dragon be able to save Swordhaven and beyond? Or will The Greenguard Alliance fall in its first attempt to face the might of the Magesterium Proclamation? Head over to Queen Victoria in Book 3 Swordhaven, then your Swordhaven faction camp to play this week's release: Sunfall: Part 2! Next week, we have a Reimagined release, but Dove is going to be taking the week off for a very well earned break! But don't worry, we have a full Reimagined release planned. Dracelix will be helping out, and we hope you'll look forward to it! Have theories about the story? Feedback about recent releases? Having trouble with any fights? Want to discuss all things DragonFable? Join the discussion on the official forums! Want to play DragonFable without using an internet browser? Check out the Artix Games Launcher! Follow us on Twitter for sneak peeks and updates (and feel free to tweet us your fan art and feedback too!) Verlyrus Twitter Tomix Twitter Tags: Verlyrus

ChronoEye -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 17:44:23)
A boss that you cannot even harm, and you'll then die to it. Well executed. Can't play.

neora5 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 17:49:12)
It loses its "shield" after a few turns. It will eventually reapply it. You just have to hang in there.

Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 17:52:49)
I beat the boss with dragon scout plus shape darkness having 500 bonus to hit. But not everyone has DmK V2. quote: It loses its "shield" after a few turns. It will eventually reapply it. You just have to hang in there. How long until the shield is down? I waited until turn 84 so I am guess after 20 turns? It would be nice to have some indication of the shield status (like with Uthuluc chitin breaking) Do all the faction helms have the same stats?

neora5 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 17:59:58)
I just kept attacking it with DeathKnight. I would miss, but my DoT would hurt it. It kept giving a popup saying that my darkness was weakening the light. (I was using a Darkness weapon.) Within maybe 10 turns, it lost the shield and stunned itself for one turn. Then, it kept the shield down for several turns. I stunned it and really started burning down its health. A bit after it did a huge attack (not its standard), it put the shield back up. I repeated my attacks and killed it.

The Betrayer123 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 18:06:46)
Great release, story is developing brilliantly at the moment I love the direction we are heading in. Sad to see people complaining about having to use a bit of time to work out the solution to the boss mechanics. It is obvious that as there are such high defences for such a long duration there must be a solution. It's hardly an inn challenge. I think Verlyrus is doing an absolutely brilliant job at bringing some more complexity to the game without raising the difficulty. Dragonfable is no longer the sort of game where you just use the same rotation in every fight til you beat everything in front of you. Enjoy your break Dove, thoroughly deserved!

Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 18:14:24)
quote: I think Verlyrus is doing an absolutely brilliant job at bringing some more complexity to the game without raising the difficulty. The difficulty has gone up though. It may be a good or bad thing depending, but it is inarguable that these bosses have been tougher than previous storyline bosses. Especially since this isn't the final boss of the book or even this questline (since we can't change factions yet).

The Betrayer123 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 18:31:22)
Is this difficulty though? Or is it just trying to work out the solution to a puzzle though clicking on the boss' stats? No one is actually expecting anyone to fight a boss with such high defences. Without giving away any solution it's a simple trial and error task. First fight I died trying different tactics, second fight I stumbled across the solution. It's just a matter of not trying to brute force and trying to think of what to do before you fight. Perhaps this means losing the first time, but there's no penalty here. You just try again until you solve it. It's using the game to it's full potential and encouraging players to try different approaches for different enemies using all the items Dragonfable has to offer. Personally if every fight was as simple as "mash buttons until HP = 0" I think that would be a waste of the huge variety of items and classes we have at our disposal.

Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 18:40:45)
I didn't say anything about it being good or bad. I'm just saying that difficulty has increased. quote: Is this difficulty though? Or is it just trying to work out the solution to a puzzle though clicking on the boss' stats? Every fight is a matter or puzzling through mechanics. By this definition no boss in the game is difficult. Pandora EX is also about working out solutions. So are Ancient Duo and Inevitable Equilibrium. Difficulty just means harder than to beat than before.

RobynJoanne -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 18:41:17)
Darkness was not working for me, but water did the trick. It seems that it depends on one's fight since the second time I went in, water did not work. Regardless, the fight isn't so hard if one can get the stun off and finish it within the first time the shield is down. Like Kurtz said, it's not as if the difficulty has not gone up. It most certainly has, but that is a welcome change in my opinion. Personally, I consider these fights a good bridge to the Dragon Challenges, making the Inn Challenges less daunting. That said, I certainly understand the frustration since a fight can be challenging without being blatantly impossible without proper equipment. It does take a while to get to the boss fight with so much dialogue and mobs in-between.

Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 18:44:06)
I do think I need to work on mechanics clarity and helping the player figure things out for this sort of thing. Not everyone goes into these fights with the mindset of "Let's keep trying different things until they work". So in this case, I've now added a line that pops up if you use an incorrect element to attack it, recommending that you try something else. quote: Personally if every fight was as simple as "mash buttons until HP = 0" I think that would be a waste of the huge variety of items and classes we have at our disposal. I agree with this, which is why I am trying to introduce more complexity into the battles. However, it's still a learning process. For this sort of thing in particular, clarity of mechanics should be much better to prevent the frustration of feeling unable to do anything.

mds2006 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 18:45:57)
My main gripe isn't that there are puzzley elements in bosses, but that the game in general is never clear that there are puzzle elements in those boss battles. That includes the applicable Inn bosses as well. So i see that it has absurd evasion and a weakness to Darkness and Water and I was just like "oh well my attack missed with a Darkness weapon and luckily DmK has a move that can still hit it. guess i'll just only use that and heal when i need to!" So I just brute-forced it. At that point I expected it to be some kinda thing where you're forced to lose at first but then there's a cutscene that has something weaken it then you fight a beatable version of it afterward, but nope ...But yes. this boss now tells you if you're not doing the right thing. that's good

Kurtz96 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 18:46:59)
I want to point out that Inn bosses (who are suppose to be harder than this boss) usually have clues to how their mechanics work as pop ups. Uthuluc, Roktoru, Illumina all have pop ups so you know something is up. People are also more likely expecting mechanics to figure out in explicitly laid out challenge areas. quote: I agree with this, which is why I am trying to introduce more complexity into the battles. However, it's still a learning process. For this sort of thing in particular, clarity of mechanics should be much better to prevent the frustration of feeling unable to do anything. I think to new pop up is the right way to go. The pop ups don't even have to to be very clear and spell out the mechanics, just let people know the something else is going on.

Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 18:49:00)
quote: My main gripe isn't that there are puzzley elements in bosses, but that the game in general is never clear that there are puzzle elements in those boss battles. That includes the applicable Inn bosses as well. Yep, I totally understand this. It's definitely something I need to work on. I think for challenges, it's fine if they aren't particularly clear, since there are a number of players that do enjoy testing and learning how mechanics work, but for story and such bosses, I need to make things more clear and provide better positive feedback to the player when they do something incorrect.

FMan -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 19:44:01)
Really enjoyable release. My first run was after verly placed the hint, really helpful.

BludClaw -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 19:51:58)
I'd like to set boss mechanics discussion aside for a moment to say I really liked how spoiler: the boss projectile-vomited itself backwards into the rift. Can't say I expected that one.

Divine Nexus -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 21:21:22)
spoiler: That flying eye, he belongs to Warlic right? Jim the Eye? I don't remember the last time we saw him. I can't even begin to speculate what that will lead to. I really liked the Tytan's speech bubbles, I don't think we've seen anything quite like it before, at least as far as I can remember. I'm fairly certain it resembles creatures from the Exaltia Tower beings, but I'm not very familiar with the lore surrounding them. If I recall correctly, they were pretty ancient, so perhaps the unique speech bubble is there to convey how ancient this being of Light truly is. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. You probably don't want your leaders in the middle of a battlefield where than can die and make the situation worse. Even if they're good in a fight. I hope for Victoria's sake she won't have to wear the crown for too long. Jaania looks like she's either lost it or is about as close as you can be before you snap completely. It might be time to stop looking in that mirror. I'm very much starting to believe it's a cursed object that is designed only to drive people to madness.

RageSoul -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 21:34:16)
Boss mechanic could be potential Inn challenge material. spoiler: It seems DF is joining in the Doomwood party both AQW and AQ3D are into it seems. Also that flying eyeball doesn't scream good. Can't wait for wait Kara and Jaania are up to. EDIT : I can finally use my maxed-stack SH medals! EDIT 2: spoiler: 40 SH Medals and Helm Template spent for a snazzy looking helm. The helm's visor is see through as well EDIT 3 : Fixed link

AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/25/2020 22:15:26)
The cutscenes and sound effects were epic, and the boss fight was cool (albeit relatively short with a high hit-count class)! Truly a fitting end to the arc. I lucked out and had exactly 40 proc medals, so now I have two free bank slots - yay!

Flabagast -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/26/2020 0:57:09)
The hint on the boss was very helpful. I'm just glad I had summoned my dragon beforehand. Serves me right for thinking I could go through this entire questline without using a darkness weapon, I suppose. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ spoiler: Where do I begin? The Tytan! I recognised that rune within the orb, it's the same rune Ezrajal holds in the Exaltia Tower. I suppose this means the Exalted also enslaved elemental beasts to fight on their side, possibly forcing them to destroy others of their own kind. Yikes! And yes, that certainly was Jimmy the Eye, last seen being used to spy on Akanthus. I... can't even begin to imagine what must be going through poor Warlic's head! But hey only ...three more to go! I suppose that the Deadlands Rift is more remote and of less concern than the other two. Willowshire is properly abandoned now, and Battleon's had it's fair share of war. Still, I do still hope we get to check in on Yulgar. It would be a shame to lose another Guardian Tower too. Not gonna lie, I was expecting an Alteon reveal, but I suppose this quest already has enough going for it. Guess we still have that to look forward too! Another superb release. Enjoy your well-earned break, Dove!

Primate Murder -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/26/2020 1:02:25)
spoiler: That scene with Kara and Jaania, though. The Frozen parallels really made me lol.

DemonicDarkwraith -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/26/2020 1:22:20)
Once again, this release was worth the wait! I really enjoyed the cutscenes as well as the mechanics of the boss fight. Also, the reward is super great for players who want to try to give a shot in the Inn. As for the story side of things, there is much more to talk about many story pieces are moving. spoiler: I really love the fact that the Sunwhale Tytan, despite being one dimensional, has its own personality through our dragon's dialogue with it (assuming that you have a DA) and its sun themed speech bubbles and that it has links to the Exalted through the color scheme of the sun orb. Sounds like Warlic, through Jimmy the Eye, is finally knowing that Sepulchure and Amadeus are one and the same! Speaking of which, Akanthus lies once again as he wounded Sepulchure, causing him to escape. The discussion with the other rifts makes me really excited as we are going to Doomwood next and that we are facing Earth themed monsters in the future once we try to close the Northlands rift. Also, poor Jaania. I wonder how she will react since her mind is broken through the mirror at this point.

Divine Nexus -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/26/2020 1:24:20)
spoiler: Come to think of it, why could our dragon understand the Tytan, when we could not? It's obviously not speaking Draconic, as players with Dragon Amulets can understand that. I wonder if there is some significance there.

Kyros123 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/26/2020 3:12:54)
@Divine Nexus spoiler: My personal theory is that it's because the Hero's Dragon is one of the only "Exalted" dragons left in existence. My theory is based on the Inevitable Equilibrium Inn Challenges as well as some MechQuest lore. Some have speculated that Drahr'Hatir and Drahr'Dolass (the two ancient dragons we battle in the Inevitable Equilibrium challenge) are the same species as Fluffy and the Hero's dragon (or possibly even their parents). Also the imagery and iconography of the Inevitable Equilibrium challenge seems to suggest a connection to the Exaltia Tower/Realm of the Exalted, the same realm the Magesterium Proclamation rifts have been speculated to lead to. One of the Exalted Warbeasts encountered in the Exaltia Tower also bear a resemblance to the Sandsea Tytan. Given this connection it's possible that the Hero's dragon can understand the Tytan because the come from the same place of origin. Also it's stated in MechQuest lore that the original dragons (from which the 2 eggs of the White and Black Dragon Boxes came from) were this super-advanced race with a super-advanced civilization which spanned the stars, similar to another ancient, super-advanced race; the Exalted (which seems to be a catch all term for both Celestials and Infernals).

The Betrayer123 -> RE: =DF= July 25th Design Notes: Book 3: The End of Magic: Sunfall: Part 2 (7/26/2020 3:38:24)
quote: I want to point out that Inn bosses (who are suppose to be harder than this boss) usually have clues to how their mechanics work as pop ups. Uthuluc, Roktoru, Illumina all have pop ups so you know something is up. People are also more likely expecting mechanics to figure out in explicitly laid out challenge area Fair enough really. I guess until it becomes the "norm" for dragonfable to have fights like this in the story some prompting will be needed while we as a player base adjust. I'm sorry if my tone was a bit off. I just got a bit frustrated after seeing the reaction to a release that obviously had had a lot of work put into it, story and mechanics wise, instantly getting so much hate on twitter/forums etc. Was a little bit of a rant quote: I agree with this, which is why I am trying to introduce more complexity into the battles. However, it's still a learning process. For this sort of thing in particular, clarity of mechanics should be much better to prevent the frustration of feeling unable to do anything. Once again I agree. I've been playing this game for 13 years and I believe more has changed over last 2-3 years than in the rest of the game's entire run, for the better in my personal opinion. It must be difficult to do that at a pace that keeps everyone happy. Anyway, I'm so hyped for the next story release. I literally am so excited about what every single character will do next and the catching up to the first weaver story line. Interested to see what all the various rewards look like!

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