RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (Full Version)

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Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/11/2021 15:55:04)

I think instead of buffing the sword, I'll plan for new interactions for DeathKnight. I got a lot of ideas this weekend, so we will see what happens. Lot of options and cool things are possible.



TFS -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/11/2021 17:33:37)

^That sounds really cool! DeathKnight has needed new things for a long time, and the item skill being kept with the revamp in place of Artifacts (or something similar?) has always been weird. Definitely looking forward to that!



The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/11/2021 17:41:35)

I would not like if they turned into artifacts, because being unable to swap away from those even as off-class actively reduces the number of interesting gameplay choices that can be made. Perhaps if more skills had interactions with wearing X number of DK pieces, or there was some way that wearing more pieces gave back some of the damage resistance lost by the 50 All opportunity cost, or something.



Luks -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/11/2021 19:00:09)

I'm unable to do the new challenge because whenever I kill the boss or find a chest the game disconnects me and gives me the error code "486.11". I've only been able to luckily get 2 relics and nothing more because of that.
Has anyone experienced this? This is only happening to me, or am I just unlucky or stupid or perhaps a bad internet connection?

Verly, I'd be happy and thankful if you could clarify this problem for me.



TFS -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/11/2021 21:27:19)

quote:

I would not like if they turned into artifacts, because being unable to swap away from those even as off-class actively reduces the number of interesting gameplay choices that can be made. Perhaps if more skills had interactions with wearing X number of DK pieces, or there was some way that wearing more pieces gave back some of the damage resistance lost by the 50 All opportunity cost, or something.

I mean, the entire point of Artifacts (or the original point, at least) is/was that you're sacrificing stats/flexibility to better your class's skills; presumably it'd be balanced with that in mind. The fact that there are six different DeathKnight items would also allow for a degree of customization in sussing out a balance between stats/skills that works for whatever you're trying to accomplish. In concept, I disagree and think it's a great idea.
But of course this is all 100% theorycraft and we don't actually know the specifics of what's planned lol.

quote:

I'm unable to do the new challenge because whenever I kill the boss or find a chest the game disconnects me and gives me the error code "486.11". I've only been able to luckily get 2 relics and nothing more because of that.
Has anyone experienced this? This is only happening to me, or am I just unlucky or stupid or perhaps a bad internet connection?

This is an issue with your connection; make sure your connection is stable before accepting/completing a quest, buying/selling an item, or changing equips.

quote:

Is there a reason why the Relic death knight belt doesn’t have any bonus?

The Relic DeathKnight Belt and Zeclem's Relic Belt both have +8 Bonus.



Baron Dante -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/12/2021 15:21:48)

I find myself kind of scratching my head on how the Merge shop is set up for the DeathKnight stuff.
You can merge either the Unhallowed or Zeclem's versions into either of the Relic versions.
The Zeclem's versions were originally DC shortcuts with different art.
Now, it's kind of reversed: Zeclem's Relic set is now the non-DA set, while the Relic DeathKnight set is DA-only. In addition to that, I guess if someone got the old Zeclem stuff for the different art, there's an argument to be made about everyone being able to use it for free.
Additionally, this is also kind of annoying for non-DA players. They would have the Shadowed set, meant for, well, non-DA players, and that's not valid for upgrades at all. So if they wanted to get this stuff, they'd also have to farm the Unhallowed set, something they can't even use.

Personally speaking, none of this matters, but I just found it really weird. Other than that, I don't think there's a particular issues with the Zeclem Inn stuff. Makes sense that some of the DK stuff might be lackluster, since they always were, they still held a place for the interaction with the class. Even moreso if DK gets some nice updates to make more of that.

On the other hand, that AARGH update is something else. I think it's fairly known by now that I'm not a huge fan of what boils down to "bragging rights grinding." Games don't really need to incentivize that kind of stuff. If players want to do stuff like that, they'll probably do it regardless. I realize this is largely a me problem here, because now that it's in the game, I feel obligated to deal with it.
(The cosmetic stuff is cool though, I have no issues with those btw)



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/13/2021 0:06:36)

Regarding the weirdness with non-DA DeathKnight gear, I honestly just forgot it existed. It'll be upgradable with this week's release (if i don't forget or run out of time).

Regarding the AARGH mastery grind, this was made for a couple reasons actually. I wanted to restrict how many Timewarped Medals could be held by the player at once- otherwise adding new challenges and rewards to AARGH becomes unsustainable. However, if I were to simply restrict the limit, players who had previously gone past that limit by a significant amount wouldn't have a reward incentive to use their medals on (and also to play more and get more medals). Note that the AARGH Mastery itself is also limited, while being a significant amount. I may have overestimated that limit- I was stuck deciding between 5 levels (500 medals) and 10 levels (1000 medals). Perhaps something more tempered such as 7 would have worked better, but, well, we live and learn.

Anyway, I felt that it was the best way to deal with AARGH rewards going forward. Gives incentive to play when updated while also giving a reason to play it (if it's enjoyable or if you're compelled to) between updates.



AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/13/2021 0:13:30)

I think the AARGH mastery was a great idea, at least for me.

For what it's worth, 1000 medals was very successful, as it made me dump my entire hoard. :) If you only did 700, I wouldn't have any incentive to figure out AARGH, as I had banked up 1000 in anticipation of AARGH 2.0 Rewards.

I do think 100 is too low, as it makes you constantly have to check your medal count as you get to the 90s. Maybe 200 or 150 would be better?



HORRIOR -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/13/2021 4:10:16)

Which one is over all better, the level 90 Zeclem belt or Leorilla belt?



AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/13/2021 12:54:10)

Leorilla is better offensively, and they're pretty much tied overall. However, Ribbon of Compromise or Ogorek's Treasure are generally better than either due to having 5 all.



Cyrenius -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/13/2021 21:57:34)

I could be wrong, but I think the best OVERALL setup for accessories is:

Ancient Dragonlord Helm III
Blessing of Kyanos IX (rare)
Defender's Dragon Necklace XXXV
Defender’s Dragon Belt XXIII
Defender’s Dragon Ring XXXII
Elemental Unity Defender XV
Legion Bracer

For offense, switch out the belt and ring for:
Warrior’s Challenger Belt V
Soul-forged Ring (level 90)

Now, about the dungeon:

Overall, I say a great release! I have already upgraded the necklace, belt, and ring, and intend to upgrade the weapon, helm, and cloak. I do have a question, is the armor cosmetic only or is it actually an upgrade?

The only change I’d recommend?

Currently, there is no reward for the boss except EXP and gold that I know of. I don’t actually know, I haven’t defeated him yet (I did try twice before the healing pads were added at the beginning, with food, but I was out of potions at the time), but it seems all the rewards worth farming for are the treasure chests scattered throughout. There should be at the very minimum a badge for defeating him, preferably something much more such as the BiS cloak or bracer in the game.



AstralCodex -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/13/2021 23:30:56)

quote:

I could be wrong, but I think the best OVERALL setup for accessories is:

Ancient Dragonlord Helm III
Blessing of Kyanos IX (rare)
Defender's Dragon Necklace XXXV
Defender’s Dragon Belt XXIII
Defender’s Dragon Ring XXXII
Elemental Unity Defender XV
Legion Bracer

For offense, switch out the belt and ring for:
Warrior’s Challenger Belt V
Soul-forged Ring (level 90)


You're wrong on the cape. The best four capes are Nick's Toasty Cape/Wings of the Unraveler/Elpis/Wings of the Thousand Flames, everything else is either a strict downgrade or not particularly close overall. I'm not sure why Blessing of Kyanos made the list, it has only 5 all resist and no particularly powerful offensive stats.

Obviously DM belt is best, but I was under the impression that HORRIOR doesn't have DM belt, or he'd obviously use it.

As for offensive gear: though the 'optimal' offensive gear depends a lot on the usage, generally you swap out:
- ADL For either Distorted Doom Visage or Tytanvisage Helm VII
- Unraveler/K Flames/Elpis/Nick's for the +24 Mainstat Soulwoven Cloak of the appropriate mainstat
- DM Belt for Leorilla Mane belt or Warrior/Mage Challenger Belts as appropriate depending on your mainstat
- EUD for Vaal's Ego, Uaanta's Blaster, or DM Cannon, depending on the usage

quote:

#2. Currently, there is no reward for the boss except EXP and gold that I know of. I don’t actually know, I haven’t defeated him yet (I did try twice before the healing pads were added at the beginning, with food, but I was out of potions at the time), but it seems all the rewards worth farming for are the treasure chests scattered throughout. There should be at the very minimum a badge for defeating him, preferably something much more such as the BiS cloak or bracer in the game.


If you haven't beaten him, how do you know he doesn't drop anything?

He drops another relic. Given how relatively easy the boss is, it seems fair. (Though there is precedent in the Inn of relatively easy bosses dropping BiS Cloaks; hello Jack; hello Unraveler.)



TFS -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/13/2021 23:38:19)

quote:

Blessing of Kyanos IX (rare)

This is not even close to being the best cape, you should be using Wings of the Unraveler, Elpis, or Wings of the Thousand Flames/Infernos. You're spot-on for the others, though.

quote:

Don’t reset telepoints once set unless you actually die please.

It's supposed to be a challenge dungeon lol, it would be very silly if there wasn't any penalty for dying. The penalty was already almost-completely alleviated in the first place when the starting point healing pad was added, that's definitely more than enough.

quote:

There should be at the very minimum a badge for defeating him, preferably something much more such as the BiS cloak or bracer in the game.

Inn Badges are typically reserved for more difficult/grindy accomplishments, and defeating Zeclem a single time is neither. If you're really struggling with Zeclem for whatever reason, the easiest way to invalidate him is just cheesing with DoomKnight's Corruption skill anyway since he's Undead.
If you're looking for a better cloak than what you're currently using, I've listed a few better ones above.

As far as AARGH grinding goes, I disagree with the criticism. You don't get any stats or items for getting trophies; there's no tangible incentive besides bragging to your friends. And, as has already been said, the kind of person who'd do that in the first place is already going to be doing unhealthy grinds regardless. Case in point, look at how many players (including me) had hundreds of useless Timewarped Medals already stockpiled before this release lol. Because there aren't any stats or meaningful reward attached to the AARGH trophies, I'd argue that the game isn't encouraging unhealthy gameplay - just giving an outlet to the people who'd be doing it anyway.
When it comes to farming projects, I'd take optional outlets/timesinks over incentivized/mandatory grinds (hello, defender gear) any day of the week.



Cyrenius -> RE: =DF= January 8th Design Notes: Lost Fables: Zeclem and A.A.R.G.H. Update! (1/14/2021 18:04:02)

quote:

you should be using Wings of the Unraveler, Elpis, or Wings of the Thousand Flames/Infernos


I have all three of those! Well, Wings of the Thousand Infernos. After doing the dungeon once I did not want to keep grinding it multiple times for flames, I just bought Infernos. I just thought Blessing of Kyanos for some reason was better, guess I was wrong.



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