Skill cost loop hole (Full Version)

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ruleandrew -> Skill cost loop hole (2/19/2021 7:32:07)

I want to eliminate any potential skill cost loop hole for mage players. For example a mage player may equip ranged weapon to access the cheaper sp skill cost (100% melee cost instead of 125% melee cost).

How to apply sp skill cost check
Stat check must be done using raw stats (zero stat modification).
STR < 0.75 * INT case: skill cost is 125% melee express in sp
STR >= 0.75 * INT case: skill cost is 100% melee express in sp



Bao Zi -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (2/19/2021 17:33:53)

The sp cost won't change based on the weapon you use, it is based on your stat. I think you add the -98 sp regeneration to your sp cost.



ruleandrew -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (2/19/2021 18:41:31)

Look at Sunburst Amulet carefully.

A mage player can pay 100% melee cost instead of 125% melee cost on Sunburst Amulet's skill. Sunburst Amulet's skill melee cost is based on player's weapon type. Adventure Quest need to ensure mage player pay 125% melee cost on Sunburst Amulet's skill by ensuring Sunburst Amulet's skill melee cost is based on player's raw stat.





Mortus Est -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (2/20/2021 11:05:00)

You say it's a loophole but there's a penalty of wasting a whole weapon slot just to get the melee discount.

Now they've lost out on having better magic weapon options.



LUPUL LUNATIC -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (2/21/2021 1:42:19)

quote:

You say it's a loophole but there's a penalty of wasting a whole weapon slot just to get the melee discount.


Many weapons nowadays have Melee/Magic toggles so your not wasting any weapon slots just changing its type.

I think instead of focusing on having a STR check we should focus on having an INT check instead because having a STR check affects STR-less builds like FD BeastRanger (250 DEX/CHA/LUK). Its pretty clear, if you have INT your going to do 75% weapon damage and yes hybrids are not assumed anyway.



lolerster -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (2/22/2021 18:14:52)

er...you can still have infinite resources with stuff like infinita staff with what you are suggesting. Skill costs isn't what enables a lot of loops.



ruleandrew -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (12/5/2021 18:13:37)

Pure INT test is the best method to remove the skill cost loop hole.

How to apply skill cost check
Stat check must be done using raw stats (zero stat modification).
If player current INT value is more than (35% of expect INT value for player level + 5 INT) use magic cost for skill.
If player current INT value is less or equal to (35% of expect INT value for player level + 5 INT) use warrior cost for skill.



Legendary Ash -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (12/5/2021 21:07:16)

Your approach does not acknowledge that fact that lacking Int or to your proposed threshold alone means only just that, it doesn't imply a build is a Warrior, in other words it doesn't imply the player has an automatic investment in Str or any other stat.

The standardized stat check for determining skill cost found in modern armor skills is already sufficient albeit a minor addition to include check for Cha in the same manner as Int should result in a Magic skill's cost.



Sapphire -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (12/6/2021 7:29:24)

There's been a few items recently that check what you're wielding, not stats. The new Hollowborns shield's built in skill does this. Checking for stat only isn't sufficient, unless you can prove damage from said skill is = in both cases.

While Ranged is competitive to magic for a pure Mage, it still almost always loses in terms of DPT. IMO, the lower SP cost is fine since you're losing out on damage. And since skills tend to have higher damage than armors, the damage difference grows the stronger the skill becomes due to lack of stats. (strength)

I don't have a standard skill's stats in front of me, and maybe someone else can chime in, but I'd be interested in seeing what average damage would be on a skill for a pure mage where the skill is Magic based, and costs Magic SP versus the same players and the skill is ranged, with ranged SP cost. And then seeing what the difference would be.

98 Less SP for how much less damage? Testing the chaosborn SP skill vs 100% element, Ranged SP cost, and ranged damage, is yielding around 320 damage give or take for me in a very few tests. Using a magic weapon with increased SP cost is yielding around 580ish each turn. So IMO, 98 more SP is giving me 260 more damage in this very small sample size. While this in no way represents actual average DPT, anyone can see there *is* a significant increase.

The SP rules, at least in terms of how it pertains to Pure Mages, is completely fine given the damage difference IMO.

Checking on what you're wielding then, IMO, is a more balanced approach. The *only* issue IMO then is with hybrids. Maybe there could be an override for "hybrid armors" to default to the lower SP cost, if there isn't one already.



ruleandrew -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (12/6/2021 20:41:39)

Sunburst Amulet skill is a skill that take one player attack turn. CHA and LUCK is used to power up Sunburst Amulet skill. Sunburst Amulet skill is one reason why INT check is needed.

INT check should be used to determine if player pay magic cost or warrior cost for CHA skill (skill that take one player attack turn).



Legendary Ash -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (12/6/2021 21:01:33)

The nature of a skill being quick cast or consumes a turn has no bearing on whether stat checks needed, there is no relationship.
The primary reason stat checks are necessary is determine appropriate cost and drive the mechanics that produce the best output for the equipment.



ruleandrew -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (12/7/2021 8:41:08)

Sunburst Amulet skill and Venomjade crown skill are turn end CHA skill.

Until INT check is used for turn end CHA skill, player will continue to use weapons that can swap between magic mode and (melee / range) mode to obtain warrior skill cost.



Sapphire -> RE: Skill cost loop hole (12/7/2021 12:21:10)

I dont see a info subs on the venomjade misc. Looks like there is no damage inflicted initially, as it's pure poison. The poison amount is The same, no matter the SP cost, too. This specific item has a loophole for SP cost. If the status inflict is using mainstat STR/INT/DEX and thus is checking weapon type, maybe that's the justification for it, though 130 SP difference IMO doesn't justify a change in "inflict stat". This specific misc I think is either problematic, or bugged.

From a 40,000 foot view, and looking at it from a general PoV, if it's a skill that causes damage ..ie damage comes from stats...the different SP costs magic vs ranged for a Mage is fine since magic has higher sp cost and higher damage, ranged has lower sp cost and lower damage.

As for charisma skill, SP cost shouldn't Int-check. It should just be magic cost with no checks. Seems like extra code for nothing.



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