Low-level Inn Rewards (Full Version)

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stratuscone -> Low-level Inn Rewards (4/26/2021 9:13:32)

Why do these exist? If the inn is meant to be played at end-game, why are there final fusions of item rewards in the inn at lower tiers?



Dratomos -> RE: Low-level Inn Rewards (4/26/2021 10:38:00)

Some of those can be done at lower levels. At lvl 60, you can defeat some of the challenges (with the right equipment, class and amount of luck), which is why they are offered.

And some of the players aren't lvl 90 when they finish the story and want to start the challenges at Inn. So it's nice that Verly gives them the option to these items.

And for some rewards, it's not easy to pinpoint what level the player is when they get it. Which is why they are lvl 1 (like Vaal's Ego) so that the players can use them as soon as they unlock them.



TFS -> RE: Low-level Inn Rewards (4/26/2021 15:48:18)

Inn monsters used to be a lot weaker and were therefore realistically doable at low level. The reward structure is a leftover from when bosses had lower avd/def and damage (which stat check bonus and resistance respectively, filtering low-level characters).
While it's theoretically possible to jank your way through a solo at level 30, or for a very experienced and well-equipped player to do a duo at level 60, these are outliers and there isn't much of a point to the items.



Cyrenius -> RE: Low-level Inn Rewards (4/26/2021 17:02:59)

I know for a fact that the duo that drops the Legion Bracer can be done at level 20 if you possess a Doom Knight V1 because I did so at said level on an alt.

That being said, not everyone possesses a Doom Knight V1 (only people who became Doom Knight before a certain date, I forget the date, I have been one since they first introduced it so I have it), and even if they did, very few challenges in the inn permit them because they are so powerful, they are easily the most powerful class in the game and I would admit too overpowered for the Inn because they make it unbalanced due to its Life Carve skill that removes 15% of the boss's max HP, heals the player, and then gives the player an additional attack. Doom Knight V2's are permitted for MOST fights (there is / are 1 or 2 they are not), but not V1's, I'd say at least 75% if not closer to 85% or 90% of the fights they are banned now.



AstralCodex -> RE: Low-level Inn Rewards (4/26/2021 17:19:19)

quote:

I know for a fact that the duo that drops the Legion Bracer can be done at level 20 if you possess a Doom Knight V1 because I did so at said level on an alt.

That being said, not everyone possesses a Doom Knight V1 (only people who became Doom Knight before a certain date, I forget the date, I have been one since they first introduced it so I have it), and even if they did, very few challenges in the inn permit them because they are so powerful, they are easily the most powerful class in the game and I would admit too overpowered for the Inn because they make it unbalanced due to its Life Carve skill that removes 15% of the boss's max HP, heals the player, and then gives the player an additional attack. Doom Knight V2's are permitted for MOST fights (there is / are 1 or 2 they are not), but not V1's, I'd say at least 75% if not closer to 85% or 90% of the fights they are banned now.


...what?

I mean, v1 owns an earlier challenge that doesn't ban v1. Ok, sure. That's not relevant to the conversation at all - the question Status asked was why some recent Inn Challenges like Ice and Dragons, Mage and Serpent, etc have low level rewards for the duo/quad, when others such as Conquest and Faith and Teacher and Student have only 50+ merge rewards.

I think the correct explanation is the one that TFS gave. Earlier inn fights were easier and more realistically doable at lower levels. But after bosses started vomiting damage and gained high MPM/BPD. Take Escherion, for example, who one shots you on t1 at lower levels, and kills you on t2 if you try to shield, while having 40 MPM and 40 BPD, which basically walls off lower leveled characters (and their dragons) from hitting him entirely.

Legion Duo is also from before the stat creep that TFS was talking about. I've beaten it at level 20 with Riftwalker and at level 1 by using fighting dragon. Neither member of the duo does a ton of damage (thus requiring res stack), nor do they have 40+ base mpm/bpd like a lot of recent bosses (thus requiring high bonus).



Cyrenius -> RE: Low-level Inn Rewards (4/26/2021 18:03:58)

True, Astral, TFS's was a better explanation than mine.

The newer challenges (especially Ice and Dragons and Inevitable Equilibrium) pretty much require level 90 characters (and Ice and Dragons ice resistance stacked to near max), and it makes no sense to have less than level 90 rewards. The legion bracer is viable at lower levels since it is obtainable at low levels easily, but most recent challenges require much more planning and effort. For example, very few classes can do each of Ice and Dragons and Inevitable Equilibrium, you pretty much need Underworld Epoch from the 2020 Artix Entertainment Calendar or Doom Knight V2 (easier with Underworld Epoch in my opinion) to do Inevitable Equilibrium and you pretty much need Kathool Adept or Pyromancer or Technomancer (easiest with Kathool Adept in my opinion).

I still remember struggling for two weeks to down Inevitable Equilibrium, asking for / seeking advice, trying new things, until I finally resorted to buying the 2020 calendar and downing it with relative ease after a few tries learning the new new version of the Epoch class.

I struggled for three or four days in silence (never mentioned on the forums I was working on it until now after completing it) for Ice and Dragons but figured it out on my own before I downed it with Kathool Adept.

I don't remember doing Escherion, but I must have when he was much easier because after doing the Hydra recently, Xiang and Xang were unlocked. Trying to figure out the strategy of their fights so I can unlock the chaos lords chain in case the future rewards from them are decent (so far they have been underwhelming and disconcerting compared to most other Inn rewards)



AstralCodex -> RE: Low-level Inn Rewards (4/26/2021 18:45:23)

Since the original question got answered, I guess we're just going off topic now...

quote:

For example, very few classes can do each of Ice and Dragons and Inevitable Equilibrium, you pretty much need Underworld Epoch from the 2020 Artix Entertainment Calendar or Doom Knight V2 (easier with Underworld Epoch in my opinion) to do Inevitable Equilibrium and you pretty much need Kathool Adept or Pyromancer or Technomancer (easiest with Kathool Adept in my opinion).


I strongly disagree with this characterization. Here's a list of classes that do Inevitable Equilibrium (IE) without food, along with videos:
- DoomKnight v2 (https://youtu.be/5QEM0VN_3ag)
- KAA (https://youtu.be/ge646ijKO3s)
- Technomancer (https://youtu.be/BXNiO3q68PA)
- Cryptic (https://youtu.be/v6Lhp0E-CNg)
- Chaosweaver (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kmJ6Cpr3VE)
- Guardian (https://youtu.be/O2N-fa3FB48)
- Ranger (https://youtu.be/cLVdqoBA_jg)
- ChronoZ (https://youtu.be/Gdk_NNQPzh8)
- AoT (https://youtu.be/IEW10ufJ-qM)
- BSW (https://youtu.be/0A55bkLevok)
- MSW (https://youtu.be/N91zPMVPMn8)
- Dread Pirate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwL6WOQV6eM)
- DBE (https://youtu.be/_tERx-5Xras)
- CDE (https://youtu.be/TJnEVbKhGKI
- EE (https://youtu.be/YAgl1DrmYL0)
- (Nerfed) UWE (https://youtu.be/GTcVUkF5TGA)
- DeathKnight (https://youtu.be/gD-eXO8RnzU?t=1)
- Ascendant (https://youtu.be/mYKrC2osLcI)
- Dragon Mage (https://youtu.be/EWEfknNAEgo)
- Dragon Warrior (https://youtu.be/Lbb5IzBNHec)
- Pyromancer (https://youtu.be/6uk1zhWgaR8)
- Necromancer (https://youtu.be/AIPvgYVZcD4)
- Riftwalker
- Shadowalker of Time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXDK6Vo7VM4)

And here's a list of those that have done IE with some food
- PDL (https://youtu.be/GvGGFpyVkAQ)
- AExo (https://youtu.be/lPkYLRIECrU)
- IBR (https://youtu.be/nB96WhEfZZY)
- Paladin (https://youtu.be/W0Mv0nvpnYo)
- Dragon Warrior (Vid TBD)
- ECCL (https://youtu.be/H2_mBVOYUi4)
- EPL (https://youtu.be/ksjjlcqiz-Y)

Ice and Dragons (InD) is a newer challenge, but besides the classes you mentioned, many others have done it, including:
- Ranger (https://youtu.be/Uh6RyhcV22w)
- Ascendant (https://youtu.be/2upeg_WsqZQ)
- DoomKnight (https://youtu.be/eMPwaxe_T-g)
- CDE
- Dread Pirate
- Ninja
- Guardian
- Entropy
- MSW
- Riftwalker
- EE
- DBE
- E
- Paladin
- Soulweaver

KAA was also able to do it with ~70 ice res.

I don't think IE's rewards are abnormally low level either - the solo merge reward is level 70, and then the duo reward is 80 or 90. Ditto Ice and Dragons - the level 30 rewards are probably doable at lower levels, and the level 30 Vilmor's helm is BiS overall until like level 60+.

(Edited to add more classes)



Cyrenius -> RE: Low-level Inn Rewards (4/26/2021 19:46:19)

Alright, I admit I was wrong. Very wrong indeed. I had no idea so many classes had accomplished this!



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