Bleed vs. Poison- ANSWERED (Full Version)

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Mr. Roguish -> Bleed vs. Poison- ANSWERED (6/15/2021 19:14:18)

While these might (if absolutely everything is taken into account) total out to be equivalent. Or one might be just more useful for different purposes/circumstances. Does anyone have any biases for one being better/more effective/useful than the other?

Example:
quote:

When deciding how to best increase MRM, there are multiple ways that it can be accomplished. I can:
• Get a direct buff to MRM
• Decrease opponent BtH directly (blind/berserk)
Since DEX and LUK both contribute to defense and BtH:
• Increases DEX (usually by magnitudes of 8)
• Decrease opponent DEX (entangle/offbalance)
• Increase LUK (usually in magnitudes of 40)
• Decrease opponent LUK (unlucky)

What I have found, more often than not, nerfs to opponents are much more powerful than self buffs, however unlike opponent nerfs, self buffs are practically guaranteed. But self buffs usually cannot nearly be sustained for extended periods as easily as nerfs and nerfs really aren't that hard to inflict anyway.
Therefore my priority would lean to inflicting nerfs to my opponent than buffs to myself. Even though with the right amounts of each,, they can all equal each other; but since it takes 8 DEX or 40 LUK to just equal one nerf or buff, it is usually has much more reward to effort just effect the BtH directly.

With all that being said I personally found a way to get self MRM buffs that is nigh just as powerful and almost just as sustainable.
Additionally, when referring to different purposes/circumstances, if I was also low on accuracy, it might be more beneficial to buff my DEX. Or if I didn't need that much more MRM but I could also use a bit more accuracy and damage, it would be more useful to buff LUK. Et-cetra.

Although, despite all of what I mentioned above, for the specific purpose of dodging/blocking, it is actually more useful to buff my own MRM.


When you decide between bleed and poison, what are the things that you consider and what was you conclusion on which you found was better?




J9408 -> RE: Bleed vs. Poison (6/15/2021 21:06:42)

I decide base on equipment.

There is more equipment that has Bleed than Poison. Too many actually.

Bleeding is better for this very reason. Poison has just, the Chimeran Rider? Poison Arrows too, but that is Z-tokens. Everything else is GGB or Z-tokens.

The most well known would be the Darkovia subraces, Werewolf and Vampire. Both can stack Bleeding.

For Beastmasters, the most well known are obviously Neko.

Now monsters can recover from Bleed unlike Poison, but usually the damage is already done.




RobynJoanne -> RE: Bleed vs. Poison (6/16/2021 5:55:32)

I don't think bleed and poison are great DoTs to compare. Bleed always does harm damage, and it stays as long as a monster fails the stat roll. Poison is an elemental DoT that lasts a certain amount of turns. Poison is far more analogous to burn.

As J9408 said, poison just doesn't have enough support to be all that viable. There are very few items that do poison. It also doesn't have synergy with Neko, which increases the damage of burns/bleeds +25%, so it's just overall much weaker.

That said, if you are interested in poison, Fiend of Vergil does come with a skill that inflicts a darkness poison and passively boosts burns/poisons +25%.




Sapphire -> RE: Bleed vs. Poison (6/16/2021 15:30:34)

Yeah bleeds far outweigh poisons atm. I also think for those whom have chosen Vampire subrace, keep in mind that vampires with a toggle heal 25% of bleed damage.

This is miniscule if you just rely on the bleed from vampire, but if you find other bleed sources they begin to stack to the point you begin getting some potent damage *and* healing.

You can, in theory, have all at once:
Vampire subrace form on
Porcelhino pet toggled to bleed
Doomquake minion Rast, toggled to bleed
Legendary shadow crystal Hydra Day
And a weapon of some sort that bleeds.
Like today, on my character, right now:

Against a L150 Lightzard in Blueblood armor, here's how this went on my lucky beastmage.
Turn 1-Celerity
Did Blade of the briar skill 2 times
Rast guest attacked two times
Porcelhino pet attacked two times

The bleed is power 2.224, and after Lightzard's attack, it bled for 1060 damage. On turn 2, 860. (Rast missed, and I didnt use the weapon's skill again)
On turn 3, it bled for 1559 damage. That's 3,479 damage in 3 turns (used celerity once) and that meant 869 healed HP.

The bleed just grows and grows and grows.
I beat it in 3 turns because I took half it's HP in bleed in 3 turns, and my character HEALED 25% of that.


No poison can come remotely close to this.




RobynJoanne -> RE: Bleed vs. Poison (6/16/2021 16:29:00)

If you're so inclined, we even have a shield that inflicts bleed in the Shadowwalker's Shield of Time. Bleed's harm element really lends itself well here because it's possible to have literally all possible equipment slots inflict bleed, which far surpasses what is available for poison.




Digital X -> RE: Bleed vs. Poison (6/16/2021 17:01:44)

This is turning into more of a discussion than a simple question and answer basis. If you would like it moved to AQ General Discussion let me know.




Mr. Roguish -> RE: Bleed vs. Poison (6/16/2021 18:11:11)

@Digital X

Yea in retrospect, I didn't expect it to go like this. However, because everyone is essentially saying the same thing, it seems less of a discussion.

No one is claiming
• poison is better than bleed
• that there needs to be more of a balance between the 2 (which this identification has inspired me to get to work on a posion based/themed armor suggestion) - DONE
• a change to bleed or poison mechanics
• etc.

So ultimately I dont think this has crossed the realm into a discussion. Though, while you certainly don't need my permission, feel free to move it if you find it more appropriate.




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