The Future of Classes (Full Version)

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Fire alandry -> The Future of Classes (6/29/2021 2:52:32)

Since the revamps started, the devs have shown us time after time how they can take an outdated class and make it useable again. We are in the middle of a long journey, and I'm sure at the end each class will have its speciality. This is a great use of the material we already have in the game.
The slow process of class-creation and the justified low rate of new ones aren't too bad, cause every revamp feels almost like a brand new class.
Saying that, a few notes:
1. Right now, we have plans for one more class (FW). Personally, I think this should be the last class in the near future. The resources and effort a new class requires are just too high, and I'd prefer more content.
2. I think we have 5 more likely revamps (SH, Entropy?, GPS, Eccl, Accl)? And 4 more potential revamps (EPL, FMA, Zardbie, Togslayer). I would like to have a confirmation from the Devs, though..
3. So, DragonSlayer. The problem of this class is that it's unpractical against regular foes, and too good against dragons. Hence, DS is bad for quests with Boss-Dragon in the end, and where it should have shined- the Inn- it's banned.
I would like a revamp that will make this class useful against every foe (just like Togslayer isn't just for Togs, or Paladin can be used not just against undeads), but more important- remove it's OP dragon skills (well... Poison, really), so we'll have a chance to actually use it against the dragons it meant to slay, without they slay it.
4. EPL. This class was my go-to until I bought CW a few months ago, and it isn't too bad even now (for questing/farming). EPL is fine... Till the enemy has Immo res. Then, Scythe becomes a gamble, and the main buff/debuff becomes much weaker. I think locking Scythe on -100 bonus and separate Draining roots from Creeping roots should do the work.
5. Currently, each player has 4 classes in the game he can't use: 2 dragon-base and 2 atealen-base. I know, DF had a long tradition of one choice at any given time, but... Well, this is a simple way to give everyone 4(!) new combat styles. Obviously, just like now, I think it should cost DC, but as one-time payment Instead of 500 DC each time.
6. Finally, FW. I was excited to see the new sneak peeks, but they reminded me that FW will have a cost: SW and MSW. Several years ago, it made sense.
Now, a new class is a rare event. I don't know how many years will pass between FW and the next one. So... Maybe the devs would reconsider? Losing 2 classes (with such beautiful art) is a much greater issue now that each class is unique and we won't have more in the anytime soon (besides, why should Dove and Verly waste time on class only part of the players will chose to use?). I thought that perhaps locking SW on a special customization (Flesh-weaver from april?;) will be enough a cost.

Anyway. I understand that everything will take time, even a few years. I am confident in Verly and Dove to make us satisfied. All of this is just my ideas, or questions, about the future of classes in the game.
What do you think?



ergotth -> RE: The Future of Classes (6/30/2021 2:17:33)

It STILL boggles my mind why Fleshweaver is considered "Canon" and Chaosweaver is not. Fleshweaver was created by a despicable creep (by all means I mean Roirr, not Dove xD) who demands you DEVOUR your soul-ally to obtain some of the most ungodly abilities seen so far, bu thats perfectly fine for the hero to go out and do it. While Chaosweaver, which is just fancy-talk for "Soulweavers the people at Edelia don't like" is the one that shouldn't fit the hero's canon, when praticaly Chaosweaver stands on the same moral compass as Necromancer. Sure you do some shady stuff, but you mean no harm as your powers are not necessarily corrupting your essence. (ok, Chaosweaver does have Secundus pulling the strings, but thats a design choice when the class was already defined as non-canon).



OpprobriousPinecones -> RE: The Future of Classes (6/30/2021 3:55:35)

Chaosweaver is non-canon simply because it doesn't fit with the story, though, not because it necessarily involves us being a bad person. Bacon Origins, if you'll recall, involves the player beating an innocent person unconscious and stealing her belt just because Zeuster wanted us to, as well as apparently skinning the Somean Lion just because he was a loudmouth, but it's still canon.

But in any case, the class isn't canon because our Soul isn't corrupted, we're not Secundus's Soul Ally, and we haven't enslaved Aegis so we can use him as some sort of human shield, either. If that were the case, a lot of the story would be radically changed, so it's really just a "what-if" class.

Also, IIRC there are two types of Chaosweavers; one type's just the people who break Edelia's rules by using weaving for combat, whereas the "real" Chaosweavers are weavers who weave with corrupt Elemental Spirits.




Zealwrath -> RE: The Future of Classes (6/30/2021 13:59:49)

i think a good remedy for the new class issues is artifacts. as we seen and experience the change artifacts brings to classes can very from small (like the cloak scrap) to large (like the new dragon lord). this way we can get the feel of a new class while cutting a lot of the hassle of crafting one from scratch, unless the change is so massive it has to be a new class.

as for the fleshweaver thing,idk i have to see how events even lead to that point to know how i feel about it story wise.



Vaalirus -> RE: The Future of Classes (6/30/2021 14:34:06)

quote:

Also, IIRC there are two types of Chaosweavers; one type's just the people who break Edelia's rules by using weaving for combat, whereas the "real" Chaosweavers are weavers who weave with corrupt Elemental Spirits.


Pretty much, Edelia decided that any soulweaver that uses weaving to fight is a Chaosweaver by default but true Chaosweavers weave with elemental spirits with a corrupted core which is funny because for a time Tomix fell under both these categories while he was still bonded with Aspar/Envy. We also would fit under the Edelian definition of being a Chaosweaver although if I'm not mistaken the Hero just calls it battle weaving or something like that.

As for the canonicity of certain classes, it's important to remember that out of all classes in the games Fleshweaver will be the first class ever based on a narrative choice so it kind of makes sense why it will be considered more canon than a class that's based on us acting deliberately cruel to Aegis and while you could refute that by pointing out that Fleshweaver is inherently cruel as well since it will involve the Hero potentially choosing to devour Aegis for power it's also important to remember that we don't really know what are the circumstances leading up to choosing to become a Fleshweaver as it's entirely possible it's one of those dire situations where someone could theoretically, theoretically since you can also choose not to eat Aegis, be sacrificed to save the day, though that it is speculation on my part.



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