=AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (Full Version)

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Bu Kek Siansu -> =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/13/2021 11:05:50)

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AdventureQuest News

Monday, December 13, 2021

COMING THIS WEEK!

Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly:
Things go from bad to weird as the time to deliver gifts approaches! On your way to deal with the magical anomaly building dangerously close to Frostvale, you find the knights that the Rat Queen was trying to enslave. Far from discouraged by their curse, they're a little hard-headed and could use the help of an experienced hero!

Also look for incoming updates to the Frost Elf, Darksplatter, and Supernova Spell series!

Image



Monday, December 13, 2021

NEW! The Frostval 2021 Holiday Season Continues!




Tagged! //D.U.Moglin




PD -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/13/2021 12:07:25)

Interesting how we are going to get updates to 3 classic Z spells. Back in the day these spells were considered top of the line in terms of damage. I’m looking forward to seeing what a modern update does. Though it’s worth noting Darksplatter and Supernova have both their normal versions and a classic - will both flavors get updated?

One thing I have to say is that if they remain all out damage spells, there’s going to have to be reason to get them over the current burst spells available. Ie Atorn, Dburst, Cburst, Teleport Booth ect. With the sale having ended these items will be at full price or 5940 tokens or $19.95. Buying one of the burst packages is $34.95 but you can get multiple copies on other characters, plus you can buy/sell it whenever needed so it doesn’t hog a spot permanently. I will hold out to see what else they’ll do to make it interesting but I don’t know if going a damage route is really a smart idea unless you want more power creep.




Sapphire -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/13/2021 12:24:51)

I would honestly REALLY love an overcharged L150 version of darksplatter in particular. Overcharged and a ton of hits would be awesome.




ruleandrew -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/13/2021 20:08:19)

-- Prediction --
Classic version: version that cost 47.8 % mp melee and deal 122.8 % melee.
Normal version: version that cost 125 % mp melee and deal 200 % melee.

These changes will apply to Frost Elf, Darksplatter, and Supernova Spell.

I am expecting these spells to receive addition tiers and tier level adjustment.

Edit: my claims were prediction. I fix a fact error.








RobynJoanne -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/13/2021 20:16:37)

@ruleandrew
Where did you get this info from? Are you speaking authoritatively, or is this a request? If it's the former, citations would be helpful. If it's the latter, please avoid using "will" since the word implies confirmation.




Sapphire -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/13/2021 20:25:39)

I assume these currently are off standard, and putting them on standard ...ie his info...since theyre being likely added to upper tiers.

I still want overcharged w/ higher MP cost




Lorekeeper -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/13/2021 20:40:32)

For the sake of clarity: There have been no statements, confirming or otherwise, to quote or base definitive statements on.




battlesiege15 -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 11:45:55)

@IMR/Kam: Annual reminder that Reigndragon is missing from the LTS lol (unless it is now considered to be rare)

And what questions mention the Rat King and Queens? I'm still very behind on the quest lines and I know they have been mentioned before. I just want to catch up enough to understand what's going on for Frostval.

Thank you!




Sapphire -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 16:35:25)

Release is live. In regards to the z token classic spells, efficient, regular, and overcharged versions! Excellent!




Zennistrad -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 16:36:47)

quote:

In regards to the z token classic spells, efficient, regular, and overcharged versions! Excellent!


It's additionally worth noting here that all of these spells also appear to be auto-hit spells now.




Sapphire -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 17:03:07)

Yeah the description says "unavoidable". This makes for some excellent spells for low BTH players, such as backlashers.

Rewards
spoiler:

A spell Fae's Invocation- Water, only an SP variant (NOOO!) I guess it inflicts panic, as I'm having a hard time getting it to inflict. Likely uses Strength or DEX to inflict and I'm running a backlasher for this quest and in testing

A Pet- Fae Wanderer- Water Two modes- Normal mode, and toggled mode heals MP and SP and automatically eats panic for greater MP/SP heal. I think it does approx 41-43 heal each w/o panic, and I have gotten 100+ with about 83 panic? Will test more.
22% panic -> From 86 SP to 1054 SP. MP heal is greater.




PD -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 17:05:21)

Testing on the lowest version, they're autohit, and they have less hits than they used to. 4 versus the 10 they used to have. It's kind of interesting they did that considering that people have been using all kinds of strategies to try to get around the increasing trend of damage caps on bosses and stuff. I'm also kind of surprised that they didn't make these spells scaling. The Z-shops are difficult to navigate (which is why there are 2 shops) because of the sheer number of items. I kind of wonder if by default all Z-items should just be scaling items. It's rather difficult to convince players to get non-discounted token items so making every Z-item scale by default would give them a lot more utility by allowing you to use it on your mains and your alts.

Anyways regarding the new items:

spoiler:


It looks like this is really going to be a panic-based set. The weapons from part 1 have obvious syngery with the pet and the spell. Unfortunately I capped for the day so I cannot even buy the highest version, but will later when I actually have gold.




Sapphire -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 17:24:28)

Well, hoping for overcharged assumed they'd keep the number of hits. Changing it from 10 to 4 makes this a huge no-go to buy a single one of them at this time.

I hope official info subs come out to allow players who may not see this to make a decision with their hard earned tokens based on this very unfortunate change. Auto hit spells are nice to have as an option, however, and maybe one day I'll get them, but as of now the excitement just took a smack to the face.




Cupquake -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 18:28:55)

The updated spells only being 4 hits killed almost all the excitement I had. I do, however, understand why they did it. But what really kills the spells for me is the auto-hit penalty.
Auto-hit is simply not needed in 99.99% of cases. Items would be better off simply having a +BtH effect instead. Since auto-hit is a multi penalty, it affects everything.

Unfortunately, I probably won't be buying these spells. Also, in case anyone is wondering, the spells still have the old animation, and look really janky only having 4 hits.






Sir Cloud -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 19:13:22)

quote:

The updated spells only being 4 hits killed almost all the excitement I had. I do, however, understand why they did it. But what really kills the spells for me is the auto-hit penalty.

^and if you bought all versions of these spells back in 2008 (like me) and spent 10,955 Tokens for each one, you got only a Lvl. 110 to compensate. Considering these got changed to Lvl. 143 for the loss of 6 hits, at least it's being looked into to give us Blue-Diamond owners of this series the highest-tier levels. Thanks Staff for helping fix this for us. [8D]

I am still hopeful that the general policy is to not nerf Z-Token-bought items and that this was an exceptional circumstance? :)




Lorekeeper -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 19:15:42)

Hit counts that high couldn't be reasonably kept when making modern standard items. With the acknowledgement that spells like Fireball Z create a massive disparity in how different builds handle damage caps, we can't double down on a problem that's in dire need of a solution.




Primate Murder -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/16/2021 22:53:03)

May I just say that I absolutely love the new set's theme? I adore well-written fae, and so far I really like what I see.

The spell seems rather interesting, with a compressed trigger-based elemental heal, but I think the pet steals the show this time. A pet-based status eater? That's not something we've seen before, but certainly something I'd like to see more of.




Zennistrad -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/17/2021 0:28:35)

The set so far has a really cool design. I'm not sure what to think about the status it's built around being Panic though, since the weapons are all 0-proc (thus offensively oriented), but have lowered damage and a primarily defensive status ailment as their main gimmick. It's really cool, don't mean to discount the devs' hard work here, but I'm struggling to think of situations where I would use the set over other options.




Sapphire -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/17/2021 0:57:04)

^ Set? Eh...

Pet? Seeing Red? Jania's Orb of Power? Holy...!!


Water resist has less of an effect on the pet's ability than amount of panic. I would look at panic inflictors.




Lv 1000 -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/17/2021 1:19:24)

quote:

I am still hopeful that the general policy is to not nerf Z-Token-bought items and that this was an exceptional circumstance? :)


No item is exempt from being adjusted if the devs see fit to do so.




Sir Cloud -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/17/2021 3:02:13)

quote:

No item is exempt from being adjusted if the devs see fit to do so.

yeah, but then again, people (If they see fit to do so) may simply decide to stop buying Z-Token items because they no longer function as they did at the time when spending real money buying them. So t's not a very good business model imo.




Lv 1000 -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/17/2021 10:06:11)

quote:

yeah, but then again, people (If they see fit to do so) may simply decide to stop buying Z-Token items because they no longer function as they did at the time when spending real money buying them. So t's not a very good business model imo.


They haven’t been afraid to adjust premium items in the past and they will continue to do so. Also token items likely can’t hold a flame to stuff like GGB in terms of what prompts Packages sales anyways. I don’t think they’re in any danger of losing anything. So I will state again, no item is exempt from adjustment if the devs see a clear issue (and this has been stated by devs themselves so I’m not saying stuff out of no where).




Sapphire -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/17/2021 10:30:01)

Well, the new pet allows for indefinite SP as long as you're panicking at a high amount, such as werepyre terror + another panic source. Been able to take a backlash build, add strength and dext with quadforce using werepyre, and just always have SP as long as I'm using terror skill. SP drops *slightly* over a few turns, and then just terror + either seeing red or jania's orb spell (depends on fire or energy resist) and full heal mp/sp...

wow!




Lorekeeper -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/17/2021 10:32:42)

As was already made clear earlier in the thread, there is no stance exempting any item from balance. Whether an item is obtained via gold, tokens, GGB, or as a bonus on a token package, they are all created with the same principles.

When balance standards change, any subsequent item updates are performed in accordance to these standards. This can result in a loss or gain of power. Paladin and Necromancer, for instance, are leagues more powerful than before. We can't have a double standard for reasons that have been explained several times in the past, quoted again here for ease of reference:

quote:

The single player nature of the game does not remove the importance of balance. That the gameplay choices of any given player do not directly impact the gameplay experiences of others does not alter the fact that development choices affect the experience of all players. Consistent balance is essential to the continuation of the game, for reasons including, but far from limited to:

- The value of all player experiences. Arbitrary choices and exceptions made for the sake of the preferences of a few detract from the experiences of the others and curtail future development.

- The integrity of our word as developers. Contradictory standards and arbitrary exceptions invalidate all reasons we may give for future adjustments. Players could (And rightly, one might add) point at any decisions we take and consider them moot on the grounds of inconsistency with other arbitrary choices. Balance is not something one takes piecemeal, especially only where it's easy or non-controversial to implement.

- The range of possibilities for future development. The existence of overpowered items inherently curtails the development of all future items that may be measured against them. In contrast, underpowered items are inherently unsatisfying, especially when not every individual item can be so elaborate as to have appeal beyond its primary use. %melee costs for effects increase the more than an item has going for it, making hedging the value of items that would measure up to arbitrary exceptions an exercise in spending additional effort for something that players are likely to be turned away by the drawbacks of.


To put the matter of cost (Again, be it gold, new token costs, old token costs with their increased sellback, or otherwise) versus balance to rest: No item is exempt from balance, and arbitrarily violating the above principles to the detriment of all but one build was never a stated policy. There is no option to explicitly pay for exceptions to balance, that would be a self-destructive business model.




Back to topic: I can't speak with any authority as to if and how the spells might be further changed, but can assure everyone that the feedback about the currently limited use cases for autohit and its adverse effect on the choice of mechanics has been relayed. If anyone has any mechanical suggestions, I'm certain they'd be appreciated.




Sapphire -> RE: =AQ= Frostval 2021 - Wood You Kindly (12/17/2021 10:48:43)

Cray, if the concern is the damage caps from boss monsters and how multi hit spells alleviate that to a degree, one mechanic that could be added to *some* bosses is a progressive clawback on the cap based on per turn number of hits.

If the cap is set to say, 400, this can be lowered per hit within the turn. Maybe by hit 5 it's down by half, hit 10 another half...almost as if the monster is learning on the fly. I don't think that should be something of a rule, but simply a mechanic to deploy here and there.

So on hit 1, the cap is 400. Hit 5 its 200. Hit 10 it's 100. Hit 15 it's 50. Something to that effect.


Now, for giving you the solution, I'll take my frostval crown reward ........... -Looks around-




Edit-> Another possible thing to deploy... Maybe a balance standard could be something like any attack, spell, etc that is more than X number of hits will start to have a cool-down employed over each successive hit afterwards. The average DPT is still there, you just front load the damage in the beginning. This would be a by-item balance standard, rather than employing it on boss monster mechanics.

Don't evenly spread the damage out per hit beyond idk..5 or 6 hits.




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