Trade feature (Full Version)

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Sapphire -> Trade feature (1/1/2022 6:06:07)

This I am sure may have likely been talked about at some point, and since I have only played off and on for a while until this year for several years, and because I wasn't following these forums for a long time, here we might be once again.


I don't know how, or where, or what the mechanics would need to be, but a trade feature IMO is something that could be a magnificent feature.

I sort of envision a place where you have 2 categories. One where you put up something for trade, and the other where you essentially are able to say Hey, I'm looking for this item if someone is willing to part ways.

And you can then view a character's page to validate they own an item, although the level of the item would be in question. But I suppose presenting the item that's wanted may need to be handed over first for inspection, but either way it would be a killer feature if somehow figured out.



Lv 1000 -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 12:05:59)

A trading feature was never officially confirmed and only really floated as an idea if I recall correctly. It would be a nightmare to implement and to regulate, and I really don't think that it would positively benefit the game in any meaningful way.



Mr. Roguish -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 17:31:21)

I don't see why all the hate or why something like this couldn't be feasible.

Two ways this in theory could be possible (obviously whether or not the staff want to do the work to maintain such is a different topic): (this should only be for perma-rares to condense potential items and requests, there is no need for items that aren't rares that can be accessed anytime or returning rares that can be acquired just later in the year)

1. In game Grand exchange (GE)
• Have a central market that all characters have access to from battleon under the limited-time shop
• all players gets 1"trade token". Trade tokens are needed and used to make a selection in the GE (similar to the GGB's). (This also keeps the amount of requests in the GE relatively low, at least initially..)
• (Rare) items selections are pre-loaded into GE that players can select and the GE lists how many of those people are requesting across AQ
• If a player has one of the items the grand exchange is listed that is being requested, then they move said item into the grand exchange similar to how the shared vault works and receives 1 "trade token" so that they can make further requests to obtain what they want

2. Have the same thing as option 1, but in the "manage account" page

3. Have a main forum thread (along with General Discussion, Q&A, Suggestions, etc.) for Trading
• Have a "=AQ=" entry for each rare item (like the sub forums between armor, weapon, shield, etc, in the encyclopedia) or set (which ever would be more easily manageable)
• have players create their own threads within the forum of rare item they are attempting to acquire, titled with the item that they are willing to trade in return. Players that have said item, that would like to trade will link their character page, as proof of possession item of the main perma-rare thread, that they are willing to trade.
• Staff will (when they have time), go in and trade items between accounts, then lock the thread when the trade is complete.

These are overview ways that this can be accomplished, not full fledged that detail all the potential intricacies that would probably happen as a result. All in all, not impossible, but as the staff has mentioned in the past, the main issue is maintaining such a thing to ensure no bugs or issues happen. Like a person claiming that they never received the trade, but they just moved the trade to another character to scam and get the staff to provide them another. Though maybe just having the trade be through the shared vaults might be a solution to something like that.



Cupquake -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 18:05:37)

quote:

The only people that benefit are rare hoarders seeking out other rare hoarders, and people that want to illegally purchase 15 year old accounts to scavenge for items.

A new player can never work themselves up to have items of trading value because anything they can obtain will also be obtainable by others.


Summed up my thoughts perfectly. Trading would only be beneficial for the Top 1% of players who have hoarded rares for years.

quote:

A trading feature was never officially confirmed and only really floated as an idea if I recall correctly. It would be a nightmare to implement and to regulate, and I really don't think that it would positively benefit the game in any meaningful way.


Also this.

Aside from being a lot of work, implementing any kind of trade system would be like opening Pandora's box.



CH4OT1C! -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 18:09:30)

This is good timing; I had a discussion about trading not long since on Discord. I'll ignore logistics for the moment, since it's pretty apparent that it wouldn't be simple to do. It's also a rare time that I agree with @broccoli (mages are the best!).

In my opinion, the primary reason someone trades is to obtain an item they wouldn't otherwise be able to acquire. For obvious reasons, we wouldn't be able to trade package items and the like. This would leave one particular subset - permanently rare items. These are the items that people would bargain for because i). they could feasibly be traded and ii). they couldn't be found by any other means.

The problem is we're not just obtaining a permanently rare item, but trading it. People know what their items are worth. A relatively new player without access to permarare toys is not suddenly going to find themselves with a Moglord Tortress (at least, not without getting really, really lucky!). For those without that kind of experience, it's even worse because they could easily be exploited by someone who does. Moreover, what happens when someone gets the poor end of a deal?

For those without a lot of permanently rare gear, I can understand the potential benefits. It's true, you may get access to something spectacular. If you somehow manage it, I'm sure the system would be "magnificent" to you. However, it's far more likely to leave you disappointed. You'll find that Tortress you wanted is much harder to get than you thought. It's also a huge headache to police if you do regret your decision.

Let's stick to reintroducing rares/functional copies of rares. It's easier to do, and is way more likely to satisfy newer players.




Plushie Nugget -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 18:18:44)

In general terms I like what I'm reading from the comment above mine (unlike the comment above that one which clearly indicates someone who doesnt even know where hes even standing at) and from Mr. R.
The fact that an item might be harder than expected to get is not valid though. People who really want it will persevere. The ones who might want it but not as much, won't.
Finally, there shouldn't be place for "returns". So no need to police "regrets".
Other than that, seems fine.



Mr. Roguish -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 18:40:25)

In regards to this notion of "Rares hoarders":

Specifically the frostval giftboxes; we don't know what they gift boxes are going to be and how they work to make a proper decision on whether or not we want them or not. With that being said, if lets say the Essence orb or purple rain were giftbox items, you'd want that for EVERY single one of your characters most likely. Which in that case, the smart thing to do would be to purchase every item for every character to be sure for a potentially meta defining item. So what happens when the giftbox opens and its not something multiple characters can or you want to be used for? Then you're stuck with this perma rare that you have no idea that might become useful later after being updated (which is possible with Quadforce being a recent example), or for a potential change in build. So the smart thing to do is just hold on to it because you never know. Those last 2 sentences apply for non frostvale gift box perma-rares as well.

Why is any of this a bad thing? We feel the need to prevent people getting what they want because they planned well? If 10 people missed the frostval gift boxes for a year or another perma rare because of circumstances like being in the hospital, deployed in the military, etc. Why are people making, one person being able to supply those 10 people with those items in return for things that they are ok way trading, sound like a bad thing?

"Darn those players that have extra of an item because they were trying to be cautious, they're ruining the game for everyone!!!!!"

quote:

The problem is we're not just obtaining a permanently rare item, but trading it. People know what their items are worth. A relatively new player without access to permarare toys is not suddenly going to find themselves with a Moglord Tortress (at least, not without getting really, really lucky!). For those without that kind of experience, it's even worse because they could easily be exploited by someone who does. Moreover, what happens when someone gets the poor end of a deal?

For those without a lot of permanently rare gear, I can understand the potential benefits. It's true, you may get access to something spectacular. If you somehow manage it, I'm sure the system would be "magnificent" to you. However, it's far more likely to leave you disappointed. You'll find that Tortress you wanted is much harder to get than you thought. It's also a huge headache to police if you do regret your decision.


This is more as if a person were coerced into trading something versus an item being listed in an open market for trade and a person going out of their way to go to that request and offer their item that is being requested in exchange.

If I simply post that I am looking for a "Moglord Tortress" (armor) in exchange for my Samukematsuri Buckler (shield), and I'm just sitting and waiting for hours, days, weeks, etc.. Then you come to my thread and say "yes I want to trade you my moglord tortress armor for that shield". If you (or in this circumstance a "new player") have "'trade' remorse", that is not due to someone taking advantage of them as being implied, and should be fair game.

Now if coercion is being done though PM's or in person, then a simple disclaimer that EVERYONE that attempts a trade HAS to put in their attempt to trade message before the staff will initiate said trade, would ensure that new players are aware of potential coercion for "unfair deals". However the standards of what is considered "unfair" is really dependent on said parties. I have lvl 150 perma-rares completely antithetical to my playstyle that I would never use and would be more than happy to trade for Ninja form, just because I want it. They could always go to the Q&A section and beg the question to a different more experienced player if they believe the trade is fair.

Ultimately, we can't hold people's hands that they might make bad decisions considering there's nothing stopping anyone, including new players that have never been on the forums and have no concept of rare and perma rare, from just selling their items, besides a small quick "are you sure?". Only to find out that they will never get that item again years later.

But simply bring back rares altogether would be the most optimal if possible.



Sapphire -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 20:19:46)

My thoughts are that the single biggest issue comes from the implementation of such a system. It would need to be impervious from abuse, and be fair. And the regulation, or lack thereof, would need to be fleshed out. IO'll get back to that in a second. But I tend to feel as though all other arguments are just personal opinions and what might be an issue for 1 player wouldn't be an issue ever in a million years for the next. So, to me, it's distractionary.

Assuming a perfect implementation, there could still be perceived issues by some that I simply don't believe is there at all..... BUT..

You either have to heavily regulate it, which means more work, or not at all, which if the right implementation was to be had, IMO should be the preferred method.

In the end, I do see it being a massive project that could be wrought with fraud, cheating, and it even end up a waste of time.

If there's too much of a gamble perceived, or "rare item hoarders" never wanting to trade anything because they're...hoarders, the only subset of people willing to participate are hoarders collecting MOAR or players who could care less if an item is rare, they just want upgrades somehow, or they want specific functionality.

And honestly, the more I think about it, even after my original post, the real answer to anyone's desire to have a trade system is likely just creating new items with the older item's functionality, just like the server caps were done with the frostval caps. And then keep working on making sure the size of the perma rare item pool no longer grow in size, if not outright shrinking it somehow.

Likely due to staff size, limits to time, ie the same reasons for EVERYTHING, and the always chance there'd be frivolous activity, this is and will always be a pipe dream, and if something like this was ever in the cards, it long past that time ...ie back when the game had more players and thus, more dedicated staff . (Less Artix games to manage, also)

If there is a concerted effort to bring similar functionality back, a trade system isn't needed. Didn't mean to kind of go against my OP, but had time to think.




roobee -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 20:20:27)

quote:

this should only be for perma-rares to condense potential items and requests

One complications is that few items that go "rare" are explicitly stated to be perma-rare.
If we only limit to explicitly stated perma-rare items, how small does that list become outside of Guardian Giftboxes?



Mr. Roguish -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 20:52:47)

What I define as perma-rare isn't based on what's listed, more so whether or not it will be accessible in the year.

If in 365 days time (unless it's supposed to be some leap year event item(s), which currently don't exist), it doesn't come back around, then it's perma-rare.



roobee -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 21:45:59)

That introduces an alternative complication.
If an item I doesn't come back in a year and it is allowed to be trade.
Two players do a trade involving that item.
And later that item returns. There will be regret on the player that traded away a permarare to obtain item I, when item I becomes available again.



Mr. Roguish -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 22:39:41)

That is the dicotomy between the having a trade system and just bringing everything back. Which I stated that just returning all the rares would be the optimal circumstance. Having both would be completely redundant, therefore the premise of this conversation has to be tailored so that it is ultimately productive.

Therefore, we would have to go on the premise of the thread of a trade system instead of just bringing back non yearly rares. So this wouldn't be an issue. And even if it were a bring back some or most but not all perma-rares, that still doesn't account for the universal issue of that there's nothing stopping anyone from just selling their items, besides a small quick "are you sure?". Only to find out that they will never get that item again. Therefore the same applies in reverse. While I can "understand" why, but to be that person that is upset because you traded something for something that ended up returning multiple years later is extremely selfish. AQ doesn't revolve around one player, condemning everyone else, just so one or a few people personally don't feel regret. That would be an ridiculously immature thing to desire and/or be hung-up about.

Would it suck? Yes, but again, if you weren't comfortable trading it, then you shouldn't have traded it in the first place, that 's no-one's fault but you're own. I can understand minimizing it, but y'all (not necessarily you, but what' I've been seeing on this thread in general) are trying to completely remove risk which is completely unrealistic and nonsensical.



Lorekeeper -> RE: Trade feature (1/1/2022 23:39:20)

Logic and good faith are steadily draining away from this topic. Please make an effort to remain civil and not assume the worst from each other. To steer it back to the central discussion, let's uproot the premise of the current tangent with a simple correction.

A trade system that is dependent on the staff manually moderating and managing every item transfer is beyond any sense of plausibility. Manual developer-end management of player transactions would be nightmarishly time consuming for the remainder of the game's lifespan, and makes no sense to implement for a team of any scale. Even were this not the case, our time is limited enough for the current content bottleneck that we couldn't possibly another permanent ongoing task of this nature. Consequently, it could never happen as suggested.



Lorekeeper -> RE: Trade feature (1/2/2022 17:20:15)

I would like to remind everyone that this is a thread about a suggested feature that was only ever hypothetical, not a thread about active development. While discussion of how it might be implemented the logical follow-up to a suggestion, this is the wrong subforum for it, and the wrong community entirely for antagonizing other players.

It's possible to criticize opinions one disagrees with in ways other than hyperbole, bad faith discussion, and fallacious reinterpretation. Passion and disagreement can create tension when they mix, but please refer to guidelines on constructive criticism when you notice the discussion getting heated. We greatly appreciate the interest, but would prefer that it didn't devolve into conflicts.

A warning was made about discussing logically and in good faith, wrapping up the tangent the thread immediately veered into. Immediately reopening the tangent with the same tone being warned against does not help the discussion. Please keep this in mind for future discussions.

Above all, we want our players to have fun. Let's all do our best to keep it that way.



.*. .*. .*. -> RE: Trade feature (1/2/2022 18:30:26)

I wouldn't be opposed to a trading system, nor if it was never implented.
I think as already pointed out clones of those items could be the best solution, though would that include rares from Frostval?
Or another idea would be a rental shop, where you can access all that has ever been released to rent anything on a weekly or monthly basis but it sounds like a huge task so I am
not expecting this to happen. [:D]



Sapphire -> RE: Trade feature (1/2/2022 19:47:58)

Oh wow. A rental shop isnt half bad. Maybe it's located on people's estates, and you place stuff in your own rental shop with your own pricing. This moves it out of your inventory, and into the shop. Rentals could be priced per day, and at server time it goes back in and you can move it back into your active inventory or leave it. You could get a message not too dissimilar to donations. A trade shop on your plots actually sounds like a heck of an idea.



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