The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (Full Version)

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Sphinx Jevoha -> The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (1/28/2022 16:35:47)


Hello Guys, hope you're doing well!


First off, I would like to say that I adore the AQ Staff, this game wouldn't be possible without their constant efforts and updates :)

I would like to know, if there is some sort of "hesitancy" the staff might have, regarding Void-element armors/weapons, etc.


The way I see it, since AQ Classic is purely single-player, we do not have to worry about things like making sure everyone has the same Power Rating, or Battle Power, if you get what I mean.

In short, since 100% of the mobs/enemies/opponents we fight in-game are NPCs, these NPCs are not going to complain, protest or rage quit if we hit them with Void element.


I understand that most NPCs, by default, have 200% Void Resistance, but there is a simple solution to implement a Void SP Skill, for example:


a) Double the usual SP cost (so 784 SP for Melee/Ranged, instead of the usual 392 SP), for a Void-element SP skill.

b) Keep the SP cost the same, at 392 SP, but increase the min-max Damage Range. So your Void skill might do 50% less damage than a normal skill or 50% bonus damage. (Void is supposed to be "unstable" after all, as is evidenced by the Void Dragon's description). I'm not sure about the mathematical numbers part, but you get what I mean ;)


Generally speaking, the staff usually appear to stay away, for want of a better word, from these 3 things:


a) Void element weapons/armors. (Usually replaced with Harm element toggle, example: Void Spear of War deals Harm, Void Vanquisher deals Ice, etc).

b) Thermal Shock. (Usually replaced with a Fire burn).

c) Prismatic Burn. (Usually replaced with, again, a normal burn).


In each of the above 3 categories, we have, quite literally, just 1 option each:

a) Tarnished Caliburn (Temporary)

b) Drakonnan's Fury (2012 Spell)

c) Prismatic Yoyo


I think, when we play the game, we tend to "relate" to our characters in-game (You know what I'm talking about - Changing your name, matching equipment and accessories to imitate your favorite NPCs or anime characters, etc), and I think we can all agree the "exotic" and "elite" nature of seeing that Purple-colored "?" symbol when using Void element, or that fancy massive damage for white-colored "?" symbol for Prismatic burn, makes it very satisfying to use.

I think such variations increase the flavor of the armor/weapon/skill, etc, and make them more unique!


What do you guys think?

Happy Gaming!



Sir Cloud -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (1/28/2022 16:40:56)

also:

c) Moglin Fan

but yeah, limited options currently.




Heroes of the Scape -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (1/28/2022 16:50:08)

Void attacks tend to do half the damage to compensate for the 200% resistance, so they really don't do more damage than a standard 8 element weapon at 100%. Look at the Void Dragons for example. I think it's more of a thematic choice to not release Void items.



Sapphire -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (1/28/2022 17:06:26)

Void doing half damage due to 200% resistance makes it pointless to implement. ....It'd be the same as harm. ..so maybe that's why we don't see it.



J9408 -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (1/28/2022 19:17:18)

It really is too similar to Harm. Why use it over Harm?

Are there any enemies in the game with low elemental resistances and low Harm resistance? I cant' think of any.



Veleqwii_Fox -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (1/28/2022 22:13:03)

I agree with the others that making Void more common would just make it redundant, since there's already Harm. Maybe they could just update the currently available Void items to apply the mechanics that you suggested (i.e. higher SP cost, more random damage). I do think that having Void as something rare also adds to its "flavor/uniqueness"

As with Thermal Shock (and others: Freeze, Hypersalinate, Petrify, and Soul Rend), I agree that there's too few options available. It's good that the new package makes use of Soul Rend, maybe it's a sign that these effects are being looked at, and we might see an update in the near future.

Lastly, on Prismatic Burn, it's not really that useful a status imo. It's about as useful as other random element items like UltraGuardian Scythe or Eye of Chaos. It has its uses but it's not for general gameplay, which is why I guess the staff stays away from it.



J9408 -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (1/28/2022 23:36:30)

^In my experience in using Moglin Fan Prismatic Burn, it does decent damage if you can somehow atttack multiple times. Celerity, Paralysis etc.

But the effort in my opinion is not worth it.



Primate Murder -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (1/29/2022 1:15:25)

^It's a pretty great status against Hard Caps, IIRC.

(though I haven't had a chance to use the Yoyo since the fix, admittedly)



roobee -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (1/29/2022 23:05:41)

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=17237789
is a very old void guide.
Some highlights
quote:

The introduction of the Harm and Void elements serves to distinguish clearly between damage that is meant to be non-elemental and damage that comes from the Void. Currently, players and most monsters have Harm and Void percent modifiers set to 100%. There is no equipment that changes their modifiers as of now. However, the Void damage multiplier will eventually be changed to 200%.


The'Galin might have different void from harm resistance.

Many items that deal void are listed, although a few of them are inaccurate (they deal harm instead of void).



Ianthe -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (2/1/2022 2:06:05)

I mean, Void is the best element ever, so it's supposed to be super rare. We generally keep it to triggers so you can't pull it out against anything. We could try some of these ideas but it doesn't feel like it'd be very popular?

I had an idea to change Void to just be greater element seeking -- we could use it in a lot more places, and it'd be easier to code those items -- but the idea kinda fizzled when I brought it up.

~

For Thermal Shock and PrisBurn, a lot of times we just don't think about them. I'll be sure to keep it in mind the next time we're designing something.

PrisBurn has an additional problem where it has to make narrative sense. Like I've got problems with taking the Darkest Dark Sword of Darkeningly Darkified Darkness (Darkenated) and having it do PrisBurn. At least not without some serious narrative hijinks.

Luckily PrisBurn fit for one of the Season of Gifting rewards, so thanks for the idea!



Sapphire -> RE: The Staff's hesitancy with Void element (2/1/2022 11:47:48)

Void idea-> 8 elemental attack rolled into 1.

So lets say you attack with Void and hit for 500 damage as a baseline, but since it's all 8 elements rolled into 1, It then multiplies the 500 by 132/109. This becomes 605. Then this 605 is divided by 8 (to represent all 8 elements.) This is 75.62 per element.

Lets say the monster's resistance is 130 90 110 70 100 100 80 120. That 75.62 is modified versus every elemental resistance. This is done with all 8 elements, then added back together, and then this number is what is spit out for damage. The numbers above is a wash, but here's the final attribute. All resistances below 100 get treated LIKE 100. So that 70, 80, and 90 are actually 100.It keeps the 75.62 per element as the lowest and it still boosts the 75.62 versus the elements above 100.

So we have 75.62 + 75.62 + 75.62 (elements lower than 100 normalize as if 100) + 75.62 + 75.62 (the 2 100's) + 83.18 + 90.74 + 98.3=650.32. So the 500 damage is bumped to 650 due to some behind the scenes bump to it being "void".

This separates itself from harm, and makes it always better than harm as it still treats resistances below 100% like harm, but gets a 1.21% boost due to being all 8 elements rolled into 1.

This also means ele vulns and elemental empowerments would still boost Void but only for the elemental section it represents, so it would be a minimal one.


I feel like this makes VOID better than a single element most of the time. Exceptions would be when a monster has a single element MUCH higher than the other 7. And then IDK how you'd counter that, unless there was a mechanic to just element seek somehow but IDK if thats now getting back into where IMR was going with "greater element seek ".

Perhaps there could be a combination of ideas here.



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