Inconsistent omni-elemental penalty for skills/spells that follow weapon element (Full Version)

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roobee -> Inconsistent omni-elemental penalty for skills/spells that follow weapon element (2/5/2022 22:46:43)

Weapon-type skills (shinyaro form) and spell-type skills (zardshi rider) that follow weapon element suffer no omni-elemental penalty.
Spells (candy hearts) that follow weapon element do suffer an omni-elemental penalty. In this case .8 damage and 1.2 cost with the extra cost paid in SP.
This inconsistency has no justification.



Legendary Ash -> RE: Inconsistent omni-elemental penalty for skills/spells that follow weapon element (2/5/2022 23:13:35)

There is no inconsistency here, built-in follow element skills/spells tied to armor/shield resistances are under different circumstances where they are not always useful due to the item being impacted by the potential poor resistances the player is in if they choose to use the skill/spell regardless of the enemies' attacking element.



roobee -> RE: Inconsistent omni-elemental penalty for skills/spells that follow weapon element (2/5/2022 23:53:10)

Ultimon's Armour has a skill that seeks between light and darkness. Its entry states that it pays extra gold instead of a penalty for seeking. Showing that being tied to an armor is not a reason to waive penalties.



Legendary Ash -> RE: Inconsistent omni-elemental penalty for skills/spells that follow weapon element (2/6/2022 2:58:32)

I presume you have read the full sentence of the analysis portion concerning the gold price for the seeking skill, essentially it is two skills that is designed to use a single animation and skill slot through the seeking mechanism, compression is paid by both MC and a gold price as with any compression item with no penalty, there is the option for compression items to pay only MC, but they will have a -5% penalty as with the Shadowpegasus, Shadowpony, Shadowunicorn.

Furthermore what you are on about is the old standard where armors with follow element skills have *.8 power and *1.2 cost, in which Flawfish and Legendairy were the last of them, the Devs were on the current standard since 2014, and there will be no reversions of standards as your argument is entirely being based on misunderstandings.



roobee -> RE: Inconsistent omni-elemental penalty for skills/spells that follow weapon element (2/6/2022 11:00:36)

Paladin armor skill Lay on Hands has an autohit penalty
quote:

LEVEL 8: Lay on Hands: Receive healing power from your spirit allies, gaining multiple charges of a swift mending ability!

Spend one turn casting the spell to get three charges. This costs SP equal to 1.5 times a standard skill.

After, you can cast Lay on Hands by paying a charge. This heals you equal to a standard spell with -50% additive damage mod, and *0.85 autohit penalty (no "always useful" penalty because it's tied to the armour).

It does indeed avoid an always useful penalty since it is tied to the armor. This shows that although always useful penalty is waived, other penalties are not. Hence, an omni-elemental penalty should still be applied to the previously mentioned armor skills.

edit: Arguably justification for the exact omni-elemental penalty (ex: .6 power) assumes an always useful penalty subcomponent? If so, the omni-elemental penalty could be reduced by removing always useful subcomponent. Ie: instead of .6 power it is .6/.9=.67 power.



Legendary Ash -> RE: Inconsistent omni-elemental penalty for skills/spells that follow weapon element (2/6/2022 19:05:37)

The always useful penalty is used in some situations as a lesser omni-element penalty when the item is omni element, only one is used, not both.
For example non-elemental miscs used to be *.8 power and *1.2 cost, however due to complaints with aims to increase its power, it was changed to *.9 power and *1.1 cost.
This inconsistency is addressed in Inconsistent penalties associated with Omni-elemental Effects, note that all these items respect the mentioned situation of the exemption of the penalty when the player has to spend a turn in armor/shield resistances, under different circumstances where a built-in skill/spell is quickcast, the exemption does not apply.




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