Autohit After Revamp (Full Version)

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Primate Murder -> Autohit After Revamp (4/2/2022 2:46:05)

With Dexterity removed from equation (pets/guest notwithstanding), your accuracy now depends solely on your MainStat - the same stat used for damage. Unless I'm mistaken, that leaves us with the assumption that you max out the stat, and thus achieve maximum accuracy.

In that case, wouldn't all autohit penalties need to be reduced to 15%?



Sapphire -> RE: Autohit After Revamp (4/2/2022 11:26:10)

Unless someone has specified any differently, BTH still is affected by luck, too. It's not completely 100% based on mainstat. I don't guess they named the exact BTH formula but I would assume they simply took Dex's old portion and gave it to mainstat.

That may mean mainstat*3/20+luck/40.

So the 85% hit rate doesn't change, and thus auto-hit is unaffected. The bigger GBI issue will be END builds outside the Mainstat/End/Luk, which IMO is the new "Pure" build.

The pure build now has max HP's and max BTH. Imagine this build using zerkers/bloodmage? Will be very nice.

But other END builds such as mainstat/end/char (backlash), mainstat/end/mainstat won't suffer enough BTH loss to offer any significant drawbacks to the playstyle. IMO, if you decide to train a 2nd mainstat and hybridize, the cost should be less accuracy due to not focusing on 1 mainstat. Hybrids should be mostly deciding defense (END) or offense (luck). The BTH loss being only 6.25 will prove to be not enough to counter balance the stat training decision and may end up steering players towards hybridization over pure builds. This is directly counter to the attempt creating a Ranger niche. Players may favor hybrids over pures. This is why I advocate for mainstat/8+luck/20 instead, to actually create a much better stat balance when deciding defense vs offense.



But to go back to the topic, I think luck's still there, thus auto-hit penalties and standard hit rate assumptions and all that remain unchanged.



Zork Knight -> RE: Autohit After Revamp (4/2/2022 12:48:47)

Ranged auto-hit had a smaller penalty though, because it assumed "you still had DEX" since you're swinging with a ranged weapon.

The implication here being that auto-hit penalty was on the assumption you were DEX-less but had full Mainstat



Lv 1000 -> RE: Autohit After Revamp (4/2/2022 12:48:54)

quote:

With Dexterity removed from equation (pets/guest notwithstanding), your accuracy now depends solely on your MainStat - the same stat used for damage. Unless I'm mistaken, that leaves us with the assumption that you max out the stat, and thus achieve maximum accuracy.

In that case, wouldn't all autohit penalties need to be reduced to 15%?


Yeah, Auto-Hit effects need to be adjusted. Best we can do is put this on the dev's radar and provide a list of item that need adjusting. I say this because auto-hit penalties are applied manually for each item and would need to be adjusted one at a time.



RobynJoanne -> RE: Autohit After Revamp (4/2/2022 12:52:19)

Level 150 armors/weapons provide 19 BtH each. Spells provide 38 BtH, which is equal to 2x19.
Using the new formulas and expecting Luk for accuracy, we get
250*3/20+250/40=43.75 BtH

That gives us 81.75 BtH.
According to the Big List of AQ Formulas, monsters have an expected MRM of [0.259xLevel + 15] .
That gives them
0.259*150+ 15=53.85 MRM

Monsters generally have a stat spread of 275 Mainstat/250 Dex/225 Luk as noted by Kaelin here.
quote:

275/250/225: It's what monsters have now.

This gives them
250/10+225/20=36.25 MRM from stats

Together, that's 90.1 MRM.
If we use those, player accuracy is assumed to be
(100+81.75-90.1)/100=91.65%

As you can see, we also have an issue with too much accuracy as a result of expecting Luk.
If we get rid of the Luk part, we get
(100+81.75-90.1-250/40)/100=85.4%

That's correct with assumptions, and since we normally assume investment solely in mainstat for auto-hit weapons, x0.85 damage penalty would make sense. Note that I am using level 150 numbers, which makes this technically a specific example rather than the general case.



Lorekeeper -> RE: Autohit After Revamp (4/2/2022 12:56:38)

The cost of hybridization is the sacrifice of damage optimization traded for versatility. In AQ, this is already covered by the peak performance loss inherent to picking an additional mainstat over the benefits of an additional secondary stat. Additional penalties would be needlessly punitive.

As of autohit, it does indeed need to change in time due to its current value being based on pre-revamp DEX assumptions. Both this and its odd interactions with items that sacrifice BtH (When there is none to be sacrificed while using this, as a cost is being paid to keep it from applying) are being passed along for review.



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