RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (Full Version)

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J9408 -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/24/2022 23:19:42)

About the bun boss, how exactly do you defend against a monster nuke like that?



Korriban Gaming -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/25/2022 0:31:34)

quote:

About the bun boss, how exactly do you defend against a monster nuke like that?

You don't/can't, you stun it so it doesn't do the nuke attack



Lv 1000 -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/25/2022 10:16:37)

Technically speaking you can tank the nuke but that’s far from intended gameplay.



dr jo -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/25/2022 11:28:59)

Tank bun-barrett I thought @lv1000 that it had PWD effect. Are the Avion trio immune to PWD or not





Lv 1000 -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/25/2022 12:28:30)

quote:

Tank bun-barrett I thought @lv1000 that it had PWD effect.

Nope, it's just a lot of damage.



Kurtz96 -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/25/2022 14:05:20)

1 way to tank bun-barrett is to loop geocastellum to get a 100% damage shield.



GwenMay -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/25/2022 23:18:23)

Fun fight! I really liked this challenge. Was new and exciting, and the ban list forced me to think of new strategies. Also, I really appreciate staff taking into account player suggestions for boss fights.

My only criticism is you guys made this too easy on us. I mean, it's possible to beat the trio without any stats. Next time, got to make us really work for it!



Bu Kek Siansu -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/26/2022 0:04:59)


quote:

The point is to ban blatantly overpowered items from being used in legitimate challenges.

actual Challenges are probably not for you.

quote:

actual Boss fights need to be a challenge, and suitable Rewards should be given for legitimately beating those challenges.


These kind of challenges should be "Hard Challenges".
Many players like Hard Challenges and they deserve suitable Rewards without any Z-Tokens fee.


However, many other players who for somehow are for being hard working of about 5 days weekly in RL.
When they come home, they just want to play the game with more enjoy,
they don't want to force their brains for a good strategy since they are too tired
of hard working in RL and they don't want to get headache.

The rest of about 2 days weekly for not being hard working in RL, they will not play the game at all
but instead to take some rest, spending the time with family/friends/etc and doing anything else.

They know their own limit which are really not good enough and weaker than many players who like Hard Challenges.
They would prefer to choose "Normal Challenges" without a ban for an item and
they are willing to pay the Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards.

They'll feel bad and ashamed and don't want to take advance on getting/using your strategies from Youtube, forum, etc.
They would prefer to use their own strategies with the "Normal Challenges" instead.

During on vacation / holiday they will NOT play the game but instead of getting some fun activity, enjoying some relaxation time, etc.


There are some Boss fights with "Hard Challenge" and "Normal Challenge" but both of them have the same Rewards.

Many players like Boss fights with "Hard Challenges" while many other players
like Boss fights with "Normal Challenges" for the same suitable Rewards.

So, I suggest, it would be great to have Boss fights with "Hard Challenge" without any Z-Tokens fee
and "Normal Challenge" with Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards in the future.



ruleandrew -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/26/2022 1:13:30)

You could set 100 z-tokens fee for one attempt to kill a certain boss.
See Trophy Hunt quest.



Black_Crystal -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/26/2022 3:48:05)

A new void challenge with an interesting and welcoming take on banning equipment to prevent trivializing the challenge. I like this and I think it's a good approach.

Never been a fan of paying for a challenge though. Please don't punish your players especially paying players to pay for a challenge. Sets a bad precedents for the game moving forward.



Korriban Gaming -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/26/2022 3:55:14)

I too do NOT support paying for challenges. The banlist idea is great, just don't do both overnerfing items and implementing a banlist and you'll have that compromise for both sides of the camp



Bu Kek Siansu -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/26/2022 4:39:10)


My idea, I suggest:

You and many players like "Hard Challenges" (without any Z-Tokens fee) then take the Challenges.

However, many other players like "Normal Challenges" for the reasons I mentioned above,
they're willing to pay some Z-Tokens fee for the same suitable Rewards.

It would be great if you and many players who like "Hard Challenges" can understand, respect and help
many other players who like "Normal Challenges" because they are not so good, weak, etc as for the reasons
I mentioned above and they're willing to pay some Z-Tokens fee for the same suitable Rewards.




Kaizoku -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/26/2022 4:56:50)

Making the titular Hard Challenge to not be hard is sort of beating the point of it. If missing out on the rewards is the concern, I'm sure community members will showcase their strategies in the threads or someone will upload a guide on Youtube or something.



Ianthe -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/27/2022 0:43:04)

Trivial: Fowl Play no longer takes *0.75 stat damage, because the rest of the devs convinced me it was excessive.



weatherseed -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/27/2022 16:15:20)

Malicious compliance: Now it takes *0.5 stat damage!



CH4OT1C! -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/27/2022 16:42:00)

@Bu Kek Siansu: Paying Z-tokens for an easier fight is a key hallmark of "Pay to win". It also defeats the purpose of working to earn the rewards/titles locked behind a hard boss deliberately. For those reasons, I remain uncompromisingly opposed to the idea.



Biokirkby -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/27/2022 16:56:47)

Speaking of pay to win... kind of... perhaps the Ally Assist skills should be locked inside these challenge battles? Those are very potent, auto-hit abilities, with Zorbak especially having some devestating synergy with paladin (although the ebony seppy armour would still be available)

Edit: Well, form shift immunity makes it pretty much a non-issue.



CH4OT1C! -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/27/2022 17:06:19)

@Biokirkby: Cray on discord has said that these bosses should be immune to form shift anyway. I believe it's unintentional that it isn't working right now.



Bu Kek Siansu -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/27/2022 22:30:53)


http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22402405
quote:

ORIGINAL: GwenMay

Fun fight! I really liked this challenge. Was new and exciting, and the ban list forced me to think of new strategies. Also, I really appreciate staff taking into account player suggestions for boss fights.

My only criticism is you guys made this too easy on us. I mean, it's possible to beat the trio without any stats. Next time, got to make us really work for it!


http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22402408
quote:

ORIGINAL: Black_Crystal

A new void challenge with an interesting and welcoming take on banning equipment to prevent trivializing the challenge. I like this and I think it's a good approach.

Never been a fan of paying for a challenge though. Please don't punish your players especially paying players to pay for a challenge. Sets a bad precedents for the game moving forward.


http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22402433
quote:

ORIGINAL: CH4OT1C!

@Bu Kek Siansu: Paying Z-tokens for an easier fight is a key hallmark of "Pay to win". It also defeats the purpose of working to earn the rewards/titles locked behind a hard boss deliberately. For those reasons, I remain uncompromisingly opposed to the idea.


http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22402411
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaizoku

Making the titular Hard Challenge to not be hard is sort of beating the point of it. If missing out on the rewards is the concern, I'm sure community members will showcase their strategies in the threads or someone will upload a guide on Youtube or something.


You and many players really like "Hard Challenges", the harder the better,
will (almost) never get enough on requesting anything (as many as possible)
to make the "Hard Challenges" as hard as possible until you all are really satisfied!

You all will feel super happy, increeble, enjoy from winning the new (Void) challenge
and for the (new) uniek brilliant strategies you have created/used.
Then, you all are the REAL Super Hero - the REAL Super Genius.

Then, you all are super proud of yourself because of you are as hardcore players,
your hard work and the (new) uniek brilliant strategies you have created/used.

Is it (still) not enough for all of you?

Why are all of you (still) bothering on little thing like this regarding
"Normal Challenges" with Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards?

quote:

They know their own limit which are really not good enough and weaker than many players who like Hard Challenges.
They would prefer to choose "Normal Challenges" without a ban for an item and
they are willing to pay the Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards.

They'll feel bad and ashamed and don't want to take advance on getting/using your strategies from Youtube, forum, etc.
They would prefer to use their own strategies with the "Normal Challenges" instead.


Are all of you feeling not good and/or jelous because many other players just can use
the "Normal Challenges" with Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards?

Then, this is another story and you can decide to choose, it's up to you if neither.

1. You're jelous because of it, you can't accept it, you don't accept it.
2. You're jelous because of it, you can accept it, you just accept it.
3. You're NOT jelous because of it, you can't accept it, you don't accept it.
4. You're NOT jelous because of it, you can accept it, you just accept it.

I think, I need to re-post my first post, I hope you will read the whole of this post,
will think about, if possible can respect, accept and help many other players
who are not so good and weak with their own strategeties but they would prefer
to choose "Normal Challenges" without a ban for an item and they are willing
to pay the Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards.

My first post:


quote:

The point is to ban blatantly overpowered items from being used in legitimate challenges.

actual Challenges are probably not for you.

quote:

actual Boss fights need to be a challenge, and suitable Rewards should be given for legitimately beating those challenges.


These kind of challenges should be "Hard Challenges".
Many players like Hard Challenges and they deserve suitable Rewards without any Z-Tokens fee.


However, many other players who for somehow are for being hard working of about 5 days weekly in RL.
When they come home, they just want to play the game with more enjoy,
they don't want to force their brains for a good strategy since they are too tired
of hard working in RL and they don't want to get headache.

The rest of about 2 days weekly for not being hard working in RL, they will not play the game at all
but instead to take some rest, spending the time with family/friends/etc and doing anything else.

They know their own limit which are really not good enough and weaker than many players who like Hard Challenges.
They would prefer to choose "Normal Challenges" without a ban for an item and
they are willing to pay the Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards.

They'll feel bad and ashamed and don't want to take advance on getting/using your strategies from Youtube, forum, etc.
They would prefer to use their own strategies with the "Normal Challenges" instead.

During on vacation / holiday they will NOT play the game but instead of getting some fun activity, enjoying some relaxation time, etc.


There are some Boss fights with "Hard Challenge" and "Normal Challenge" but both of them have the same Rewards.

Many players like Boss fights with "Hard Challenges" while many other players
like Boss fights with "Normal Challenges" for the same suitable Rewards.

So, I suggest, it would be great to have Boss fights with "Hard Challenge" without any Z-Tokens fee
and "Normal Challenge" with Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards in the future.




ruleandrew -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/27/2022 22:46:39)

You could set a fair gold fee to lower the boss fight difficulty.



Lorekeeper -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/27/2022 23:22:59)

This tangent is less of a discussion and more of an argument going in circles. In hopes of addressing all points:

  • The block list is a work in progress, both in terms of thoroughness and implementation. It's not a list of items that will be nerfed into uselessness (As a reiterated reminder, that is never the goal of balance) nor an arbitrary ban on universally useful items, but a restriction on items that completely prevent the assumptions required by a challenge. Setting challenge battles aside like this is essentially the only way we can finally fulfill all the requests for challenge bosses without them either being trivialized or stepping on the toes of players who don't like them.

  • The block list is only a feature of the new Challenge section of the Void, and not the start of some ban process spreading to the rest of the game.

  • Players who want challenging battles and players who want an easy power fantasy have equally valid preferences. This should not be the subject of an argument, as AQ is not catering exclusively to a single niche, but rather trying to provide for them in different parts of the content loop.

  • Quest bosses and rotation bosses remain at their prior difficulty standard. The Challenge section of the Void is a new form of content specifically setting high difficulty battles aside from the rest of the game, since we cannot reasonably provide that without implementing some restrictions. This way, players who don't want to encounter complex fights don't ever have them in their way, while those who do can get directly to them without having to either go through quests or wait through a rotation of easier fights.

  • Normal difficulty battles are not being discontinued, and will continue to be catered to with both Gold and Token rewards. They'll inevitably continue to be the majority of released bosses as regular quests outnumber challenges each year. It's just an occasional week being dedicated to this new content rather than a new standard of battles and rewards.

  • In the same way that not every item can aim to cater to every single build, it's very tricky for every single release to cater to all preferences. Challenging bosses are inherently a much more complex and time consuming design task than regular ones. Suggesting that the workload of an additional boss be added to each challenge release would make those weeks very daunting. This is because splitting the bosses is not as simple as disabling some mechanics: That can be done, but the necessary modularity would make it take longer to create the base challenge due to needing to also set up the different mechanics for anything that needs to be substituted rather than toned down. The testing period would be significantly longer as well.



    • Nameless King -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/29/2022 5:12:16)

    Just....calm down



    Bu Kek Siansu -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/29/2022 10:47:54)


    http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22402448
    quote:

    In the same way that not every item can aim to cater to every single build, it's very tricky for every single release to cater to all preferences. Challenging bosses are inherently a much more complex and time consuming design task than regular ones. Suggesting that the workload of an additional boss be added to each challenge release would make those weeks very daunting. This is because splitting the bosses is not as simple as disabling some mechanics: That can be done, but the necessary modularity would make it take longer to create the base challenge due to needing to also set up the different mechanics for anything that needs to be substituted rather than toned down. The testing period would be significantly longer as well.

    quote:

    Suggesting that the workload of an additional boss be added to each challenge release would make those weeks very daunting. This is because splitting the bosses is not as simple as disabling some mechanics: That can be done, but the necessary modularity would make it take longer to create the base challenge due to needing to also set up the different mechanics for anything that needs to be substituted rather than toned down. The testing period would be significantly longer as well.

    I think there's been a misunderstanding.
    Suggesting that a "Normal Challenge" without a ban for an item as an additional be added
    to each "Hard Challenge" which is called "Challenge" in the Void for hardcore players.

    The purpose of a "Normal Challenge" is without a ban for an item and
    they are willing to pay the Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards.

    See my previous post: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22402446
    quote:

    "Normal Challenges" without a ban for an item and they are willing
    to pay the Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards.



    quote:

    This is because splitting the bosses is not as simple as disabling some mechanics: That can be done, but the necessary modularity would make it take longer to create the base challenge due to needing to also set up the different mechanics for anything that needs to be substituted rather than toned down. The testing period would be significantly longer as well.


    Just add an additional the same Challenge but as a "Normal Challenge" without a ban for an item for NON-hardcore players.

    It will really hurt and make displeased NON-hardcore players if the suitable Rewards are ONLY for hardcore players.

    For details, to find the REAL GOED REASONS it would be better to read the whole of my previous post
    especially between these lines: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22402446


    However, many other players who for somehow are for being hard working of about 5 days weekly in RL.
    When they come home, they just want to play the game with more enjoy,
    they don't want to force their brains for a good strategy since they are too tired
    of hard working in RL and they don't want to get headache    .

    The rest of about 2 days weekly for not being hard working in RL, they will not play the game at all
    but instead to take some rest, spending the time with family/friends/etc and doing anything else.

    They know their own limit which are really not good enough and weaker than many players who like Hard Challenges.
    They would prefer to choose "Normal Challenges" without a ban for an item and
    they are willing to pay the Z-Tokens fee as compensation for the same suitable Rewards.

    They'll feel bad and ashamed and don't want to take advance on getting/using your strategies from Youtube, forum, etc.
    They would prefer to use their own strategies with the "Normal Challenges" instead.

    During on vacation / holiday they will NOT play the game but instead of getting some fun activity, enjoying some relaxation time, etc.





    Lorekeeper -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/29/2022 10:56:23)

    Rest assured, I have read every post in this thread and replied accordingly. I value your feedback far too much to do otherwise.



    Bu Kek Siansu -> RE: =AQ= Void Challenge - Avian Trio (4/29/2022 11:06:48)


    Thank you very much for your understanding, Cray! [:)]

    Also, thanks a lot for all your hard and excellent works! [;)]




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