=DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang

=DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (Full Version)

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Peachii -> =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/7/2022 17:49:54)
quote: [image]https://www.dragonfable.com/images/DF/author/Verlyrus.png[/image] Verlyrus: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang Hey there, heroes! The Arena at the Edge of Time has been updated! The tenth and eleventh Lords of Chaos, Iadoa and Lionfang make their DragonFable debut! [image]https://cms.battleon.com/DF/images/CHAOS6-IADOALIONdn.png[/image] Chaos Lord Iadoa, trapped within a chaotic loop of time, appears before you! Will you be the one to finally end his agony? Or will you be stuck in the loop until you're worn down to dust? And do you have what it takes to outlast the bottomless fury of the Chaos Lord Maximillian Lionfang? Will you be the one to break his unshakable resolve? Head over to the Arena at the Edge of Time to find out! Also, May's Dragon Coin special has arrived! The Atealan Providence cosmetic cape is now available from the Seasonal Items shop in the Book of Lore is here! [image]https://cms.battleon.com/DF/images/Promo-DCMay2022.png[/image] Other returning May items are available as well! Check out the Seasonal Items shop in the Book of Lore to see all the new and returning items! Distant gear has also returned for two weeks! [image]https://cms.battleon.com/DF/images/Promo-AulorianHelm.png[/image] Check out some favorite returning items such as the Lost Starswords, as well as the new Helm of Old Aulore cosmetic helm! New items have also been added to the Cosmetics shop in Cysero's Superstore! Finally, an update on Dove! His stitches were removed this week, and he is recovering very well! With luck, everything will be returning to normal going forward. And that's all for this week! Have feedback about recent releases? Have any crazy theories or ideas? Want to discuss all things DragonFable? Join the discussion on the official forums! Want to play DragonFable without using an internet browser? Check out the Artix Games Launcher! Follow us on Twitter for sneak peeks and updates (and feel free to tweet us your fan art and feedback too!) Verlyrus Twitter Tomix Twitter Tags: #Verlyrus

damienmcneff -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/7/2022 21:54:16)
Ok, so who wants to try and figure out how to dispell Iadoa’s visions? The first one is pretty easy as his stats basically tell you it’s weakness, once he does the swirly attack, the time thread weakens and the illusion can be dispelled with a stun. However, I’ve yet to notice any such hint with the remaining three visions, so that’s where we begin discussing. Fluffy’s vision gives a power boost and his dialogue says something about the past. Carnex’s vision had a chance to stun you and is dispelled via a stun, so maybe giving yourself a power boost could dispel this. I’ve tried blinding him and upping my defenses, applying a DoT, using a Good weapon, as well as attempting a stun. Maybe a Destiny weapon must be used. Buffing the opponent also didn’t work. Dragonoid mentions the future, heals the boss and causes a DoT on you, so far, I’ve tried healing myself, applying a dot and a stun. Kathool mentions the beyond and I didn’t make a note of what he applies to the boss. I’ve tried weakening the boss, buffing him, applying a DoT, healing and stunning. Iadoa cannot he killed unless these are all dispelled, at level 89 he stopped taking damage at 1200-ish health, after Kathool’s phase has finished the fight loops and Iadoa fully heals. Upon the first loop, nothing changed other than the dialogue for dispelling Carnex being non-existent. I got all the way to Kathool after the first loop and nothing changed. His rotation of attack usually follow: Phase switch, clock hand stab, swirly attack (time threads always weaken here), phase specific attack, then repeat. His phase specific attacks are: Carnex- potential stun, Fluffy-barrage of attacks, Dragonoid- barrage of attacks that apply DoT, Kathool- Barrage of attacks. I’ve yet to note what effects Fluffy and Kathool apply.

TFS -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/7/2022 23:07:17)
The Dragonoid trigger spoiler: (not dealing more damage than the strength of his HoT) isn't telegraphed at all, and I'm not sure how a player is meant to figure this out without looking it up. This isn't like Tibicenas where you can ignore the 'just look it up lol' mechanic either, as Iadoa becomes invincible at low HP if you haven't dispelled all of the visions. I don't think the Kathool telegraph is great either, especially considering it comes after an instance of the mechanic not being telegraphed and players might therefore not be expecting a telegraph at all. Personally I'm not a fan of a boss's mechanic being to look at an out-of-game resource, but I have no idea if this was an intentional facet of the design or not. Personally I don't think the dance pad minigame really adds anything to DF's gameplay either, as there is no skill/knowledge floor, opportunity cost, or restriction associated with just doing exactly what the game tells you to do, but if it's meant to be a reference to how you fight Lionfang in AQW or something then that's actually pretty clever and I can understand why it's used here.

Aethervic3 -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/7/2022 23:10:12)
How to beat Iadoa spoiler: Fluffy is defeated by being hit by the darkness nuke, the dragoniod needs to have his hp unchanged during the turn between his four turn attack and his energy attack and kathool needs to be hit with +health in the third or fourth turn.

Laeon val Observis -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/8/2022 3:07:11)
Definitely can vouch for @above's combat methodology (as per that final test, dunno what'll happen since Iadoa-sensei is free to be git wrekt'd and I'd rather not find another invul or even an unavoidable nuke at the end of the trials). For those who don't know, Iadoa was a side char (a Chronocorruptor who tried to screw with New Year celebrations) turned CL once /thespan was released. His "test" mechanic is a homage to his struggle to train the AQW hero (do note that the AQW hero is distinct from DF's. Make of what that you will once the 13th lord is avail for battle here) about who they are. Definitely a worthy imagining of a temporary ally, as his sole gimmicks in AQW were that he will nuke any combatant once per battle that entered without specific gear (VHLs and LRs can fight without those gear w/o much a consequence), turns you to stone for a bit of time, and screws with haste (an AQW stat that affects cooldowns). As per Maximillian Lionfang, righteous extremist. His effects are potent, referencing his penchant to DoT escalation and siphoning strength from enemies. The DDM mechanic is odd, but does add a twist to protect yourself from some chaotic sense of good. Managed to get him to Favor-Inner Uragiri bankai before facing an invul.

DragonKeeper -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/8/2022 4:48:43)
Thanks for the helpful clues Laeon and Aetheric3. I was able to defeat Iadoa with Technomancer.

Alm Nullamors -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/8/2022 8:51:48)
Considering who the last two Chaos Lords were, I'm of the mind that this board's next update will be conceptually quite interesting. Alteon as a character is the only one of the thirteen who canonically exists and has some plot importance in DF itself, and there were some classes to represent the AQW hero's Chaos Lord form which can be a basis for their DF appearance/techniques. These are the duo I've most been looking forward to facing or even just seeing ever since the board started up. Glad to hear Dove's on the mend too. I'd like to say we care about him and Verly beyond just their contributions to this game.

Dratomos -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/8/2022 11:22:02)
During last christmas break, I started playing AQW again (after 12 years of being inactive) and after finishing the Chaos Lords saga, this board has become much more enjoyable. Iadoa was my favourite out of all and he certainly didn't disappoint here. After figuring out his mechanics, he has become one of my favourite fights. The music, background changing and all... just amazing. Lionfang... well... he is certainly a fight one can do in the Arena. FF Origins clearly took inspiration from Lionfang, as that man seems to shout "I must kill Chaos/Evil" all the time. spoiler: Lionfang has too much going on tbh. Having a coinflip on Sword and Shieldbreaker, anti-crit armor, growing DoT and the final rotation requiring one to survive for 5 turns is too much for one boss IMO.

Allos -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/8/2022 13:57:05)
Had a lot of fun with these! They were really cool adaptations, with a lot of character. Thats something that i really like from the Chaos releases. Iadoa's Dragonoid trigger is perhaps more cryptic than it should be, that is probably true, i think its FINE tho. That said i guess it kinda of a shame since this is one of these fights i think its more fun to go in blind. Iadoa isn't very threatening too, for better or worse, so going blind doesn't mess you much outside that particular trigger. Regardless, big fan of how the fight references his character arc from AQW and incorporates it into gameplay, thats really cool. Anti Double Turn mechanic was funny too. Lionfang was funny, i'm not sure how i feel about his difficulty but people seem to be managing so it might be fine. I do think the pad mechanic here was fairly useless tho, Its not really part of his AQW fight as i recall, and it is JUST "go to right spot continue fight as normal". In Sek Duat the pads apply pressure since you have a timer, and the telegraphs aren't clear-cut (unlike here), you gotta find a way to memorize or otherwise look up his tells, so the mechanic does something there. In Discordia they're funny so i like them there too. Here it just feels like nothing would have been lost if they weren't there, since there's no pressure OR oportunity cost for being/not being in the right spot. If they're used in future fights i'd like more interesting uses than that, at least. (I do like his funny dialogues for the position tells tho) Really like the new cosmetic cape! the other new stuff is nice too, happy to see some items inspired by the MQ houses.

Laeon val Observis -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/8/2022 19:17:36)
Took a while, but finally found a DmK vs Lionfang strat, at least conceptually. 1. Overall, DmK not exactly a nice matchup here as you'll be reliant on Malefic coinflips to offset the facetanking of +Heals and -ImmoRes. 2. Stats on player were 200 DEX/END, 45 WIS; Dragon was 200 PROT/FIT, 100 AST/MIS (the AST/MIS combi has some wiggle for customization). 3. Heal augmentation gear wasn't used, but definitely recommended. Magi Sentinel/Guard+BiS AllRes gear needed. 4. Hold back on the usage of Scales, Weaken, and Void Barrier until berserk phase, although Weaken has room to be used in early game alongside Malefic. 5. Hero Diet and extra HP pots needed. 6. Hypothetically, a mundane Inner Darkness can be used, although I forgone it due to the beatdown that Lionfang can do. Overall impression of the two Chaos Lords: Iadoa is decent enough albeit with vague hints (nothing unusual since we had Tibi and other Inn fights do that before), but Lionfang is on the oppressing side. Having to be wary of strong status ailments that impact ImmoRes, Heal, and Avoidance puts a crisis on using shielding and purging when more realistic strats would be used. I would suggest that at the least, the +Heal effect be more phase based in escalation (in tune to Lionfang's 3 phases as opposed to his current +80 not berserk, +100 berserk).

arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/9/2022 13:46:48)
I have a few questions: 1) Why the split between mischief and assistance? 100 is not enough for their effects to be worth using. 2) Why do you need magi sentinel/guard? It has +5 All and +10 Health resistance, so it actually worsens your healing

Laeon val Observis -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/9/2022 15:16:42)
1. Didn't I say that there's wiggle for customization? And I did win even though you claim it to be "not worth using". If I was in the mood I could easily yield similar results with a 50/150 split. 2. Remember what Lionfang's mechanics are. Why do you think part of the combat theory against him is to burst real carefully? And I did say that you must bring Heal augmentation gear, so please review your gearswap fundamentals.

arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/9/2022 16:08:58)
1. That's....not an answer. 2. Right, I forgot about the anti crit mechanic when I made that post. Still, it seems pretty unnecessary to use magi helm since the downsides of using it (less all res, crippled accuracy, and poor offensive stats) outweigh whatever benefits you get from avoiding triggering his +all since it's not as harsh as the mechanics of Wrath, Pandora (EX), or Twisted Amalgam EX for example.

Laeon val Observis -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/9/2022 17:25:10)
So you are operating under the premise that your RL luck will stop you from doing too many crits, eh? That's how I see you operate under these circumstances. If I were to sum up why I built my DmK v Lionfang concept as it is, it's a combination of personal preferences so as to get a bit of pride that I did it on my own two feet, and Cautious Hero's Seiya's "I won't gamble as long as there's 1% that I'll lose." (I did state though that DmK isn't exactly an advantage here, so I'm just putting every probability I can swing to my favor in my favor) Expanded explanation: Going guns blazing with standard BiS gear, crit occurrences would be would be in the 40-50 percent range. And in a fight where you don't want to slow down unless a potion is really needed because of an escalating Null DoT, every crit you do can cost you time regardless of how mighty your damage is when there's AllRes to neuter their efficacy, which will add more pressure to you once you get Lionfang to his pesudo-Favor phase. By having 100 AST/MIS, it offsets the low Bonus you have (which is mostly a double redundancy here since your Bonus and his MPM are close enough unless under the influence of Hardtack) and do more damage due to the tandem of AST's and MIS' Boost and -All. And once again, what do you not understand about gearswapping? Just because you're using DmK and can win with it here doesn't mean it won't be fraught with peril. And I personally experienced that here because all I unbanked was the Magi helm and none of my -Heal boosting gear, and there were at least two turns (plus some stunned turns since for whatever reason, the stun effect still whacked me despite being clearly in a safe zone) where I could've lost the fight since my pot and Life Carve only healed single/double digits as opposed to double/triple. And no one's stopping you from swapping to a more standard BiS helm once Lionfang's pissed.

arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/9/2022 18:55:34)
The +all mechanic is just not severe enough to require one to use Magi Guard/Sentinel. Not related to IRL luck. For example, Lionfang has 25 All by default. Assuming we use no resistance reduction effect, one crit will bring him up to 35 All. That brings our damage down to 65% from 75% after that hit, which is a ~13.33% damage reduction. A second crit will bring it down to 55% damage, a ~26.67% damage reduction. If we were to use any sort of resistance reduction effect, then the damage loss will be even less. As you can see, nothing compared to effects that just straight up no sells any crits or reduces their damage by 75% or 85%. With standard BiS All resistance gear, your crit is within the 70s, so somewhere between 35% to 40% crit rate. And since you were using Doomknight, your highest hitcount is 5 hits, leaving you with an average of 2 crits at most. And since you're Doomknight, you can use corrupt to reduce his resistance to your weapon's element by 30, potentially even more if you slot Ice Scythe and make sure to fight with an ice weapon. I understand how gearswapping works, just wanted to say that in this case, the Magi helm is unnecessary. Let's put some things in perspective: You used Doomknight, which can be considered one of the best overall classes in the game and yet required the use of both the Hero's Diet and extra potions. I used Ascendant, whose only advantage over DmK is higher consistent damage (outside of DmK's Inner Darkness) and an actual shield (albeit a BPD one) but still beat the challenge using no food or extra potions.

Laeon val Observis -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/9/2022 19:16:23)
Now you see why it's specifically DmK and not another class. And no, I have zero plans to be an Astral MK II. If I can make my own strats, that's mine. If, assuming he overcomes cold feet, he finds a better DmK answer, sure. Until such time, this is the conceptual phase for DmK-ing this fight. I welcome different methods. Heck, I was even impressed when Cryo used pyromancer of all things considering its burst mechanism is not exactly best shape here. Unfortunately for you, my battle doctrines condone the use of Ice Scythe shenanigans despite being a necessary evil as it only adds another layer of RNG to an Arena that already tests the limits of luck and logic to victory. If it's a luck I have full control of (e.g. MPM, BDP, crit), I'll accept it. Which is why I added Magi helm here for my kit (that 5 All as opposed to 10? A negligible price to my perspective). Otherwise, I'll just stick to BoA/Twilly's Staff as I'm more likely to toy with adversaries than end them quick if battle data allows me to. I'll end my talk here.

arcanum37 -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/9/2022 19:28:40)
Well, the thing is, someone already beat Lionfang with DmK crutchless lol

Dratomos -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/10/2022 5:02:38)
quote: Let's put some things in perspective: You used Doomknight, which can be considered one of the best overall classes in the game and yet required the use of both the Hero's Diet and extra potions. I used Ascendant, whose only advantage over DmK is higher consistent damage (outside of DmK's Inner Darkness) and an actual shield (albeit a BPD one) but still beat the challenge using no food or extra potions. I really dislike these kinds of comments. "You required food to beat the boss! I didn't!" Why even bring that up. Sure, LF can be done crutchless (I did with both Techno and Ranger), but why did you start boasting how you were able to defeat him without food? Especially when crutchless runs can need a bit of luck to pull off? Not every player is interested restarting the boss 15 times until they get lucky and finish the fight without any extra food, just so that they can boast about it later. Who cares when someone uses food with stronger class than you. Maybe run just required it at that point and they didn't want to restart it. Or they wanted to play safe. Who cares. This isn't a competition. So this kind of boasting is just unnecessary, stupid and tells a lot about you. I don't understand the hate Hero's diet gets. It's a tool players can use without any cost (besides DA), so why not do it? What's next? New crutchless run where gear-swapping is not okay?

Korriban Gaming -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/11/2022 1:14:18)
I enjoyed the fights, they have interesting mechanics and aren't super difficult which is a nice change of pace considering how many difficult Inn bosses we've already gotten this year. I see little mention with regards to the new cosmetics but I have to say they are ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL! Keep up the great work! quote: I really dislike these kinds of comments. "You required food to beat the boss! I didn't!" Why even bring that up. Sure, LF can be done crutchless (I did with both Techno and Ranger), but why did you start boasting how you were able to defeat him without food? Especially when crutchless runs can need a bit of luck to pull off? Not every player is interested restarting the boss 15 times until they get lucky and finish the fight without any extra food, just so that they can boast about it later. Who cares when someone uses food with stronger class than you. Maybe run just required it at that point and they didn't want to restart it. Or they wanted to play safe. Who cares. This isn't a competition. So this kind of boasting is just unnecessary, stupid and tells a lot about you. I don't understand the hate Hero's diet gets. It's a tool players can use without any cost (besides DA), so why not do it? What's next? New crutchless run where gear-swapping is not okay? Sadly, this is a toxic mindset that many of the players in that server have. They think they are better than others just because they can do fights crutchless. I don't see why there is always a measuring contest on who can beat fights using the least amount of resources, the rewards you get aren't any different

ergotth -> RE: =DF= May 7th Design Notes: Arena at the Edge of Time: Iadoa & Lionfang (5/14/2022 3:59:01)
Worth mentioning another thing that made Iadoa quite the beloved character in AQW despite being a Chaoslord (and PERFECTLY translated in his Inn fight) is that he never WANTED to be the villain! All throughout his saga he was fighting against the grasp of chaos inside his soul, making sure the hero will not only learn about the origin of their own universe and even their own selves, but be able to kill Iadoa once Chaos takes absolute hold of him. He ultimately sacrificed himself so the hero can move on, and his bittersweet farewell hinted a sort of Whovian regeneration or some sort of afterlife for Chronomancers. Not that AQWorlds recently give a hoot about continuity to bring him back...

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