Spell Boosts for Mages/Warriors, Spellcaster Lean/Poes and so on (Full Version)

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LUPUL LUNATIC -> Spell Boosts for Mages/Warriors, Spellcaster Lean/Poes and so on (8/15/2022 12:57:57)

The Spell damage boosts are not applied only to the spell damage but on your total damage and they do not account for your turn damage difference between a Warrior and a Mage.
Explanation:

For Warriors:

quote:

You are dealing 200% Melee with the Spell, but the Spell itself deals 100% Melee and then your turn does 100% Melee, this means that the Spell is a boost of +100% Melee damage.
When you apply a Spell Boost on a Spell and treat it as 200% Melee you are actually applying the boost not only on the Spell but also on your normal turn you spent which is 100% Melee for a Warrior. This means that the actual % spell damage boost for Melee would have to be modified by * 100% Melee (normal attack turn) / 200% Melee (total Spell Damage)
This falls in line with the current Spell Damage formula AND it is in fact based on the Warrior Melee Level model.


For Mages:

quote:

For a Mage however, the things change drastically when trying to boost a spell because they are paying 125% Melee in MP instead of 100% to reach 200% Melee and their turn is doing 75% Melee, when you are appying a spell boost on the entire Spell as it is now, you are applying a buff on the 125% Melee Spell + 75% Melee Mage turn instead of 100% Melee Spell and 100% Melee Warrior turn. They are paying more MP for the same spell to reach the same 200% Melee this means we are already factoring their turn as 75% Melee on the turn the Spell is cast. The spellboost should not be calculated at Warrior Melee Level but Mage Level when calculating their turn.


What does this mean in reality for Spellboost:
quote:



The difference is that Spell Damage contribution to Warriors is less than for Mages, yes you are paying more resources to reach that as a Mage (more exactly 25% more Melee in MP BUT you do get compensation by doing +25% more Melee damage boost because you are not doing 175% Melee in total but 200% Melee), but there is an extremely problematic thing that appears due to this, Spell Damage boost /2 for Warriors effectively makes a boost of +100% Melee(Spell Contribution) into +100% Melee/2 as spell damage.
The math checks out that +10% Damage on a normal attack is 10% Melee and 5% Spell Damage on a spell is also 10% Melee.


quote:

However it also makes it that Mages +125% Melee Spell Contribution /2 (when applied using the Warrior turn model) is higher than Warriors and the spell boost applied like this is unfair.
For example, a boost of +10% Damage for normal attack is 10% *75% Melee (7.5% Melee) and a +5% Spell damage on a spell is 10% Melee.
This explains and verifies that you need *4/3 more boost for normal magic weapons and why it is needed to exist.


But what happens for the spell boost when it is applied on a Mage spell that takes into account their normal magic weapon damage due to the fact that they are paying 25% more Melee in MP?

quote:

When we are paying 25% more MP than a Warrior it means that the Spell we use does more damage to us than a Warrior Spell since we are paying *1.25 more resources, if our Spell did +100% like a Warrior spell then we would have the same overall boost when we would do /2. It is worth noting that we do not fall into "Efficient" traps, a Warrior spell is NOT more Efficient or anything like this,you are not paying less but get higher efficiencies values per resource here in both cases.

So, if we want to equalise this Spell damage boost for both Warriors and Mages:

quote:

+100% Melee Damage (Warrior) / 2 is not equal to +125% Melee Damage (Mage) / 2

We are using /2 in both cases because this is how they are applied currently for both Warriors and Mages, this also demonstrates that Spell Boosts are distributed unfairly.
The spellboosts do not take into account the fact that they have different resource values only their total base damage. Since Mages are having *1.25 base costs to reach the same total base damage while Warriors only have *1,and we are also taking into account their magic weapon attack for that turn,it means that they are getting *1.25 more boost for the base spell cost, however this ALSO applies to outside Spell damage boost, they are getting *1.25 spell boost more as if they always payed *1.25 more base cost on all outside boosts.

In order to make them equal, Spell Boosts for Mages should get /1.25 efficiency for the cost to be on par with Warrior's efficiency.
The Math checks out that +125% Melee Damage / 1.25 = +100% Melee.



Legendary Ash -> RE: Spell Boosts for Mages/Warriors, Spellcaster Lean/Poes and so on (8/15/2022 19:41:23)

A Mage's damage distribution scheme exchanges -25% melee for 25% melee of mana as a resource each turn for 20 turns, its identical to the 25% melee Sp per turn, both resources total 500% melee.

Standard skill/spell of 200% melee are assumed, the total damage at the end of 20 turns is 2500% melee.
Mage uses 75% melee Magic weapons for 12 turns = 900% melee, Weapon +125% melee Sp skills and Mp spells for 4 turns each = 800% melee each, they get the 4/3 boost 60% of the time and /2 boost 40% of the time.
Warrior uses 100% melee Melee weapons for 15 turns = 1500% melee, Weapon +100% melee Sp skills for 5 turns each = 1000% melee, they get a normal boost 75% of the time and /2 boost 25% of the time.

Damage boost modifiers were implemented to ensure that the effectiveness of the boost itself with a weapon/skill/spell attack is valued at 100% melee after taking into account increased or decreased base damage, different BRS% in the occurrence of normal to 4/3 to /2 boost do not produce imbalance in standard skill/spell scenarios since the modifier's design is compatible with the majority of the equipment mechanics, with the exception of interactions with offensive status conditions and being additive or multiplicative depending on whether two sources use the same status to stack or are on different statuses namely Elemental Empowerment, Element Vulnerable or is a hardcoded boost on misc/booster pet/guest that needs to be equipped on the attack to apply the boost and flavor effects like Hpcost, Damage leans, BtH leans, -MRM for +damage, -BtH for +damage.

The current multiplicative design of damage boost modifiers is limited to being only accurate to the assumed standard skill/spell BRS% to resource cost, to be inclusive of other BRS% ratios namely efficient and overcharged, each ratio would need to be individually added, programmed to check and use the appropriate modifier, since an infinite amount of BRS% values exist through been boosted by charging mechanics, delayed turn compensation, flavor effects, a very ambitious global scaling BRS% checking system if implemented could solve this issue, however a cost-benefit analysis may deem it to not be worth it since it would only account for base BRS%, damage penalties/boosts on the skill/spell BRS% may not be accounted for, the programming of current equipment determines the required depth of such a proposed system to be functional for all situations.



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