The Position & Equipping of Miscs (Full Version)

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Sphinx Jevoha -> The Position & Equipping of Miscs (8/26/2022 5:30:29)



Hello Peeps!

Miscs have generally been regarded as an afterthought, down the list in terms of importance when compared to armors, spells, shields and even pets.

This is evident due to the inconsistency regarding their placement:

a) Some miscs are located in the top right-hand corner of the screen
b) Some miscs are located below the player info-panel

It would be good to "standardize" the position of Miscs in general.

Since placing the Misc in the top right-hand corner spoils the screen look (aesthetical, but still), it would be better to place all Miscs below the player info-panel (many clickables/toggables/weapons/shields are automatically placed there when you activate a temporary armor, for instance).

Also, it was once requested about 6-7 years ago, if Miscs could remain equipped throughout battles instead of clicking on them every battle. At that time, the coding for it was not available or something along those lines, but would it be possible to code it at the present moment?

Basically, what I'm suggesting for discussion are:

* All Miscs are now placed below the player info-panel instead of top right-hand corner of screen, to make the screen less clustered/more aesthetic.
* The equipped Misc stays equipped from one battle to the next until you manually deactivate it.

What do you guys think?

Cheers!




sunblaze -> RE: The Position & Equipping of Miscs (8/26/2022 5:48:11)

Well that surely would help with viewability and clarity yes.
But some miscs are extremly nice to look at and sadly the space below the info menue is kinda small. Sometimes you WANT that big one just to be pleased by its astetics.

A toggle in the settings-menu would be the better iddea. like 100% below info but you can enhance its size by toggeling it off forif you want.




Sir Cloud -> RE: The Position & Equipping of Miscs (8/26/2022 13:17:10)

quote:

* The equipped Misc stays equipped from one battle to the next until you manually deactivate it.

This would be nice to have implemented. Better still, would be allowing the player to toggle this in the "Options" setting as to whether or not you want it set to always equipped or not. :)

quote:

a) Some miscs are located in the top right-hand corner of the screen

I think you mean top left-hand corner of the screen, but we get what you're saying either way, lol

quote:

A toggle in the settings-menu would be the better iddea. like 100% below info but you can enhance its size by toggeling it off forif you want.

like this idea too @sunblaze. [:)]




PD -> RE: The Position & Equipping of Miscs (8/26/2022 16:11:03)

We have a Suggestions Sub-Forum, and specifically a thread for quick suggestions like these.

But anyways, part of me wonders though what effect this could possibly have on game balance. IIRC, miscs aren't really a well-considered part of the balance model and this sort of change (if it's even possible) would greatly upheave what's already a state of flux in terms of balance because the staff doesn't have time (seriously, we're still waiting on adjustments to SFP, Essence Orb and other widely-acknowledged problematic items!) to implement more balance features/updates in between what they already put themselves in-schedule between seasonals, rotations, holidays, premiums and yearly quest sagas. Granted as someone who does farm quite a bit (and I'm sure warmongers would love this change even more) this would be a welcome thing to have but even though I'm not a balance expert, something about this kind of idea doesn't sit quite right to me. Sure, it's automating what players would normally do anyways, but then I'd have questions like:

1. Would this activate the initial upkeep on said items at the beginning of every battle? If it wouldn't then this is just asking for more power creep by giving us free power for no resource cost. Would this auto-equip before anyone takes a turn, or after the initiative phase resolves? This sort of resolution phase actually matters a lot in terms of the below question, which is...

2. What's the effect this will have on battles? As I said sure it's automation but this is going to cause a real change in playstyles as sometimes, a small automation is enough to change an entire balance landscape (because convenience is a great factor of whether people do anything regardless of outcomes). I can only imagine that offense will continue to become ever more favored than it already is compared to defense as that small automation. And damage output is already a massive issue (this is why we only ever have up to 4 hits and why all bosses now have damage caps). It's gotten to a point where a lot of things like elemental/blocking modifiers and hinderance statuses are pointless for a vast majority of battles.

On the other side of the spectrum, it might devalue END and LUK even more as auto-equipping a defensive misc at the start of every battle would reduce the need to properly prepare for battles or even invest in initiative-granting stats. as auto-equipping defensive miscs will allow you to offset more risks that genuinely exist to stabilize the game. Part of what balances things like Backlashing for example is that they never go first and are expected to tank the full damage of an enemy's nuke which greatly increases the risk of playing those builds. And for hybrids that use multiple MAINSTATS that there's an opportunity cost of not investing in another secondary stat. With ensured defense the risks of playing hybrid/backlashing is further minimized.

3. Are there going to be other unintended side effects? Perhaps auto-equipping status miscs for example that said auto-function status has the potential to greatly warp balance (Cracked Ornament or SFP or Love Potion for example).

Now with that all being said, I'm not entirely against this kind of thing; I myself generally push for conveniences and the staff has done a lot of QOL updates in recent memory to improve player experience by automating things and streamlining processes. However I have to at least pause a little on this one given that there's a lot of potential for this kind of automation to go south.




lolerster -> RE: The Position & Equipping of Miscs (8/26/2022 22:07:38)

quote:

Miscs have generally been regarded as an afterthought

Hm, definitely not, considering some of the most broken items in the game have all bee miscs (PCO, SFP, EO, Zfinity Gauntlets, prenerf Love Potion, etc...)


quote:

Also, it was once requested about 6-7 years ago, if Miscs could remain equipped throughout battles instead of clicking on them every battle.

There are actually balance issues/abusable items that come with this. For example, any item that gives main stats/luck also provide initiative.


quote:

* All Miscs are now placed below the player info-panel instead of top right-hand corner of screen, to make the screen less clustered/more aesthetic.

Probably a good idea.




Kaizoku -> RE: The Position & Equipping of Miscs (8/27/2022 1:23:35)

I would like to thank PD for the solid analysis on the balance problems of this idea, came here to mention that too. Miscs are absolutely not an afterthought or "down the list of importance", they are play style defining and one of them has been breaking the game over its knee for years (Essence Orb).




Sapphire -> RE: The Position & Equipping of Miscs (8/31/2022 20:08:06)

Leaving a misc equipped is problematic when considering builds that lose initiative more than win them, and builds who actually prefer to lose it such as backlash. A backlash build may equip frostwyrm helm permanently and deal a huge amount of extra damage simply by having it out. Equipping cyclops eye-like miscs to mitigate losing initiative would be problematic. Losing initiative should be a big negative for most players.

However, the spirit of the idea is likely to save time when farming, questing, etc and that would be a nice QoL change.

So to me a compromise would need to be to allow a misc to stay equipped from battle to battle, but losing initiative means all misc effects do not activate until it's your turn. So no mitigating the loss of initiative (or taking advantage like with backlash) yet this implementation still results in less clicks .




Korriban Gaming -> RE: The Position & Equipping of Miscs (8/31/2022 23:02:44)

quote:

So to me a compromise would need to be to allow a misc to stay equipped from battle to battle, but losing initiative means all misc effects do not activate until it's your turn. So no mitigating the loss of initiative (or taking advantage like with backlash) yet this implementation still results in less clicks .

Second this idea




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