RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (Full Version)

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Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (7/29/2023 16:39:58)

New goals on the donation drive, interesting.

We (ie. peeps on discord) are spitballing the idea that something in that 30 mill goal could be a mermazon estate that unlocks for everyone (and as such would be the first housing sold for gold) [8D]




Stoic -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (7/29/2023 22:28:22)

@above: Considering the 12 million mark was hit after more or less 32 days, 30m on or before August 31 looks a lil blurry IMO. Maybe that's why it's unknown.




PD -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (7/30/2023 4:48:16)

Nice going on the Donation Drive rush, and looking forward to seeing the progress towards those new stretch goals!

In the meantime, I once again updated my War Tracker. Instead of the horizontal bar I've been using, I'm now using a vertical bar chart a little more like what it looks like in-game. Also did some house keeping although I seem to have broken other parts of the dashboard. No matter since there's no gold contest right now, but I plan on fixing that up when that contest comes around along with some other infrastructural changes when the time is right.

Also going to start working on getting that data for the current summer contest. Hoping to get that out of the way sometime this week (probably the weekend). A couple things I'll probably be tracking:

1. Overall contest pot progress.
2. Growth rate of pool Day-Over-Day.
3. % of pool contributed by day.

Most of us probably already know what's happening but actual hard data is probably more convincing than anything anecdotal. Also that people just like graphs too.




EDIT: Sent over my estate waves to push us past the 25% mark, the cutscene is now available!

EDIT 2: Heavily considering getting that Voidforged package although I'm pretty satisfied with my current gear. I'm curious about some of the changes that were just made to the item. Poison level 5 heal sounds pretty strong and could support my current Tank-Warrior setup that I've been running since Retro Nightmare came out.

EDIT 3: Less than 1m waves to go!




RobynJoanne -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (7/30/2023 18:38:59)

Now that the entire Mermazon Champion set has been released, I think it's a good time to review it.

Firstly, I'd like to thank Kam and Ianthe for their hard work. Kam's been taking feedback from the community regarding the set and has already implemented some changes that people have requested, and what I've seen from the Mermazon Champion armor's mechanics show a mechanically complex item that would have taken a lot of time to make, especially considering Ianthe also seems to have made the Voidforged Celestial Arsenal items this week.

Let's take a look at the items' effects before their specific implementations of the effects.
Pet: DefBoost/EleShield
Shield: Regen
Misc: Heal Resist Poison and Regen damage increase
Weapon: EleVuln/Siphon Poison
Armor: Drowning/Status Cleanse and Regen/Poison eaters

That's a lot of status effects, which is not inherently a bad thing (I can hardly make any accusations when my Wingweaver Set suggestion is a monster of many different status effects). However, there is a clear division in how the effects work. Defboost, EleShield, and Drowning all work to reduce damage the player takes through dodging, reducing damage, or stunning the monster. Regen and Siphon heal the player after damage is dealt while EleVuln supports Siphon's heal. They're two distinct but somewhat contradictory paths to a defensive set. Healing is limited to how much damage one's taken, and those damage reduction effects should ideally minimize damage taken, thus limiting healing. Thus, Mermazon seems to have an inherent dissonance in its methods to reach its design goals. The set would benefit from focusing on either approach instead of doing both at once. I'm the healing fanatic, so I, of course, support the healing approach, but one person should not speak for the entire community. Still, from a purely practical standpoint, it's easier to take the healing approach because more items already support that, so it would take less work to shift the set in that direction.

To change the pet in this way, there are many potential options. The easiest is to follow the same template as is used for the current pet. Pay 50% damage + MC and apply a Siphon/Regen corresponding to that amount of power. A more involved approach would be to somehow use the new status valuation code used in the armor.

The armor is the controversial piece. Before we explore it, I'd like us to take a look at a more successful status eating set that this set inevitably draws comparisons towards due to being of the same element and from a Donation Contest. That's right, let's discuss Paleskull. Paleskull has three items that eat status effects: the weapon, pet, and armor. The weapon can eat EleEmpower to inflict Choke with a save roll. The pet can either inflict Choke with a save roll or eat Choke to give the player EleEmpower. The armor can either inflict Choke with a save roll or eat Choke to give the player EleEmpower, essentially acting as a bigger version of the pet. There are multiple themes here. Firstly, the items all have save rolls. This lets players double the effectiveness of the resources they pay. Secondly, two of the three items can inflict the same status they eat, letting them be essentially self-sufficient. Finally, when combined together, the items can form a cycle and use the save rolls to double the effectiveness with each iteration (up to a point due to eater caps), which also lets the player choose to have either status effect applied at a given time depending on needs. These are what make Paleskull work so well both as a full set and as singular items.

How does Mermazon Champion armor work? The first skill inflicts Drowning with a save. The second skill eats Regen to randomly remove a negative status effect on you with no save. This is QC but locks you to the armor and is usable once per turn. The third skill eats Poison to inflict Drowning with a save. This is also QC but locks you to the armor and is usable once per turn. I think there's a clear difference in how Mermazon works compared to Paleskull. On its own, Mermazon cannot inflict any of the status effects that it eats. When it does eat a status effect, there's not always a save roll involved (Regen, as a beneficial status effect, usually doesn't have a save roll, and indeed, there are no sources of Regen that have a save roll). Without a save roll, what's the reason for a status eater? Why not just pay the 50% Melee SP directly instead? You have to pay the same amount of resources to gain the Regen, so adding that extra step just means needing other items. There is no way to make the status eaters into a cycle, as they do not lead into each other.

On top of those differences, Mermazon also has some confounding design choices. Both status eaters are QC but then lock the player to the armor. The main benefit of QC effects is that they give the player more leeway to act after using the effect. This removes that. The main benefit of staying in an armor is to be able to add the power of a turn to augment an effect. QC effects have no such thing. This is essentially the worst aspects of both with none of the benefits. Now, it's understandable why the devs have chosen to lock the armor after using the QC skills. A major source of the problem that is AQ powercreep is caused by rampant QC effects. Still, this choice only adds to the problem with the armor. The randomness of the second skill is also a problem when it's only usable once per turn. There are many monsters that inflict multiple status effects on the player, and the player has no control over the effect. Players never like losing control over an outcome. Drowning increasing Energy resist also has no synergy with a set that has no way to deal Energy damage on its own, though that's not as big of an issue as some may think it is since this is an FD set; you're expected to sit in the armor for its defenses not for a high damage EleLocked skill.

That's not to say Mermazon armor has nothing going for it. Eating Poison to inflict Drowning is a great concept. In fact, Mermazon's QC Drowning skill should be one of the cheapest ways to inflict a Freeze effect since there will almost always be two save rolls involved with its use: one to inflict the Poison and one to eat the Poison to inflict Drowning. Two save rolls means x4 to the effectiveness of the resources paid at first. The Drowning SPell is also not bad for Freeze infliction. It's a -10 Penalty save roll, making it easier to inflict, and stuns protect against the dangers of using an EleLocked attack. It's a bit of a mystery why one'd need multiple sources of a single status effect in an armor, but the skills aren't bad on their own.

We can also follow Paleskull design principles to help Mermazon. The current amount skill pays 110% Melee, and it could be slightly overcharged to pay double that to inflict two turns of Drowning (or shift the save to a neutral one and not have to pay more SP). Then, the third skill could be flipped and eat Drowning to inflict Water Siphon. You need two turns of Drowning since one turn will be lost when you lose a turn after inflicting the status effect. I know I praised the third skill in its current iteration, but the concept of having multiple save rolls for an eater is still there if reversed like this. Since you're locked to the armor, the Siphon should then get EleComp. Finally, the second skill could be changed to eat Poison to remove harmful status effects with no limit besides the Melee % value of the Poison on the monster. Thus, all the skills work on the armor by themselves, and there's a clear point to the status eaters.

That's just one idea and not even one I necessarily think is the best. After all, I did say in the start to focus on just the effects that benefit the healing effects, and Drowning isn't one of them. Instead, think of this as an elucidation of how an idea for how the set could change. I hope this can start this discussion on ideas to help make the set better.




CH4OT1C! -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (7/31/2023 6:55:21)

I agree with @RobynJoanne, before saying anything regarding the set itself, it's worth thanking @Kamui and @Ianthe. It's very clear that a lot of work has been put into this set. While I have quite a few issues with the set, I don't want my critcisms to undermine or detract from the huge amount of effort made.

My core issue with the Mermazon set is that it tries to do too much. There are a lot of good ideas here - too many, in fact. The pet offers Elemental Shield and MRM Boost, the shield regeneration, the weapons elemental vulnerability and siphon poison, and the armour a water element freeze. None of these are bad ideas (on the contrary, please add them to future items). I can also see the good intentions in trying to incorporate as many suggestions from the thread as possible. The problem? So many ideas have been incorporated that there isn't room in the set for sufficient outlets to really make use of the options the set provides. Just as a few examples:

  • The pet offers Elemental Shield and Defboost, but there aren't any other ways to directly reduce incoming damage or boost your MRM, and the armour is designed that the mid-point between elemental defences and MRM to maximise elecomp. The pet is sidelined as a result
  • Regeneration provides healing, which is great. That healing is, however, is having to compete with other healing spells and skills that directly affect the player rather than through a status. This means they can be boosted, putting it at a disadvantage. To be fair, the armour does try to make use of Regeneration's benefits i.e. fuelling it into status cleansing. The problem is, that effect is also competing against similar effects that are more generally applicable because you don't need to regenerate to cast them
  • Water Elevun and Water Freeze are both excellent offensively-oriented statuses. However, Water Freeze boosts Energy resistance, so these two effects have no synergy whatsoever. In addition, the set has no outlet simply to deal damage. The best we have is the spell-type skill on the armour, which trades 110% Melee (read: this is a lot) to attempt a Water freeze. There's no energy attack at all.

    The above is by no means an exhaustive list, but I think it gets the point across. @RobynJoanne's post describes quite a few of the others. The bottom line: there are too many status effects for the set to synergise properly.

    So, how do we fix this? For me, the simplest answer is to drop some of the status effects. This can be done by process of elimination. The pet, with its Elemental shield and MRM boost, has little relation to the rest of the set. This makes it a prime candidate to be reworked. @Kamui has already done a fantastic fix to the shield, which retains the Regeneration. He has also said he intends to change the misc to more directly focus on Poison and Regeneration. Those, for me, are the best supported components of the set and primary candidates to keep. Elemental Vulnerability broadly supports poison so should be fine. Water Freeze, I think is best removed as it really doesn't contribute.

    Retaining only Poison, Regeneration, and Elemental Vulnerability frees up numerous things:
  • The Pet is now open to change
  • 2 armour skills are free

    So, some thoughts on solutions from me:
    1). With regards to the Pet, I favour @RobynJoanne's solution - a poison/regen infliction makes sense. Beyond that, you could argue for the pet becoming a status consumer in the same way as Ghost Hound. I don't really recommend triggers because they're in somewhat of a weird spot, and often don't feel rewarding.
    2). The biggest thing for me would be replacing the first armour skill (Trades damage for Water Freeze) with a damaged-focused skill. There are a number of ways to go about this. Straight damage would still favour Elemental vulnerability. You could compound this by having the attack also become a poison eater similar to Rainbow's Edge did with Blind. If you wanted to be particularly unusual, you could have it consume regeneration for damage instead! Another consideration to make would be to make the cost MP focused if the player held a magic weapon
    3). Converting poison into another status was an excellent idea. Since this is a siphon poison, why not have a converter that turns the Poison into regeneration. I.e. you can either split your power damaging your foe + healing, or go straight for regeneration. This could be particular beneficial if you...
    4). Make the status cleansing effect non-quickcast. We don't get the quickcast benefit anyway since it armour locks, so why not make use of this for a further opportunity with turn damage.

    There are plenty of other directions to potentially go with this. The suggestions above don't really have a mechanism to inflict status, so another option that could be considered is an effect similar to Fat and Tacky Santa where the armour's regular attack trades a bit of damage to poison.

    None of the above should be taken to mean that the individual effects created are bad. Some of them are great - I thought of some ideas to use them:
  • Turn Poison -> Water Freeze into a skill
  • Turn the first skill trading damage for Water Freeze into a Water version of Blood Ruby Rain, with SP/MP versions. Both this and the last suggestion would make for excellent bonus gear since half the work has already been done!

    There's a lot to work with here, I just think it needs to be organised and synergised a little bit better.




  • Stoic -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (7/31/2023 6:58:49)

    Set is nice and all but too complicated to use. I am used to a straightforward gameplay. Awesome work on the set (one of the most detailed looking sets IMO) but I'm passing on it. Maybe I'll try my luck with the other set if I can squeeze a char in the top 50 donors.




    Bolter -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (7/31/2023 11:00:05)

    The trident could really be good to have a ranged toggle with the skills costing SP instead of MP on ranged, for the purpose of having a spear for FO rangers(since they can't use the bow) but nevermind if not.




    Sapphire -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (7/31/2023 11:27:20)

    I support the shield and upcoming misc changes, they're going to be better.

    The pet is random defensive enhancers, and I find the eleshield difficult to stack and therefore not worth it, and the defboost scaling makes bunnies better as an always carry. Scaling defboost is bad, IMO. Vs mobs with low water resist it's not worth it. The pet needs an overhaul, especially since it's not really in-tune with the rest of the set.


    I find the armor odd.

    1. 2 diff skills doing the same effect
    2. Quick casts that lock you to the armor
    3. Water freeze enhances energy damage, which isn't available.

    I wouldn't want to completely uproot what staff put forth, so to keep some of the things on it and maybe just add to it to enhance the ideas...


    I propose:

    1. The 1st skill-> Eleseeks between water and energy. Does damage. Water seeking gets elecomp. This will partner well with skill 3.
    2. The 2nd skill-> Quick Cast-> Eats poisons to heal either MP or SP, depending on the *selected* resource. 1x per turn. This will partner well with the weapon's skill as well as the first skill.
    3. The 3rd skill -> Quick cast water freeze, locks to armor still for 1 turn. This enhances the 1st skill, and is largely left alone so no work needed here.



    The Pet-> 2 modes
    A. Water based siphon poison. This will be a first as no pets do this, and it should enhance the armor
    B. Water freeze. Another freeze option to enhance the armor

    Water freeze potency 10 when equipped. This should help non BM's who use this set.




    Primate Murder -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (8/1/2023 23:22:41)

    Wow, we're nearing 60% already.

    I really need to pick up my game if I want to get those 2.5k wins.

    ***

    Edit:

    If possible, please wait a few days before using estates.

    ***

    Edit2:

    2.5k wins achieved!

    Thank you and feel free to unleash the full might of your estates!




    aq DarkKnight -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (8/5/2023 15:30:37)

    We have reached 100%. The war is over!

    EDIT: This is the shortest war ever to date, IIRC. Last exactly eight days and 48 minutes!




    PD -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (8/5/2023 15:43:21)

    spoiler:


    Looks like the explosion lady is back. Looking forward to seeing what she'll do.


    Also, the leaderboards has been cleared out. This is the first time this has happened...




    RobynJoanne -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (8/5/2023 16:51:43)

    I'd like to give my effusive thanks to the devs for giving us a Moglin Sword clone. Making it a Water weapon only makes it better, as it can now show its superiority through direct comparison with Multi-Maul, the other weapon in contention for most powerful weapon not named Book of Burns, and leave even the latter wanting. Indeed, this is a fantastic opportunity to eulogize Multi-Maul. Its reign may have been short, but it has been a good time. RIP Multi-Maul 2023-2023.

    My contentment is immeasurable, and my day is saved.

    Also, there's an Academy Pack clone. That's nice for everyone who missed it. We just need a Valiant Hero rerun and a Dex shield variant.

    More seriously, my effulgence aside, I've been really enjoying the Last Ride. It's nice to see the item clone thread showing its impact directly, and we're both concluding old story threads with Pestilence's last-gasp effort and getting new lore for both demons and the primordials.

    spoiler:

    I'm surprised the character from Diamonds and Explosions came up. I never expected that quest to come up again. How many years has it been?




    Primate Murder -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (8/6/2023 0:38:25)

    spoiler:

    Blowing up a demigod's temple located on the leyline of Growth and Decay?

    How could that possibly go wrong?




    SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (8/6/2023 14:46:49)

    When I realised a War was finally happening, the Armies of Light went into the battle. [;)]

    Good to see the wars lasting just over a week.....

    I remember one war that we finished in a day.. but 15000+ players can do that.
    (Then some reinforcements were added by the staff). :)

    A lot of other wars were finished in 72 hours.... by Sunday evening.

    I still think there should be some reward for Army wins, beyond the gold we get at level 150 ..... but I guess the Gold could be used to Donate to to Kibbles and get rewards that way.......

    I'm still waiting for Clan based Estate housing, Guards or some of the other good ideas the players have put forward for housing...

    .....and now I go back to my Sky Castles and await the next war.





    Kurtz96 -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (8/7/2023 13:06:25)

    Question on gold costs: why is this new shield with INT drive 48 million, while Celtic Wheel (also INT drive) 24 million?




    The Hollow -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (8/10/2023 16:37:47)

    War prizes have all been delivered!




    MargaretMallon -> RE: =AQ= Summer Event III - Insurmountable (8/16/2023 7:55:33)

    Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.




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