Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (Full Version)

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Laeon val Observis -> Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/9/2023 3:35:50)

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[image]https://dragonfable.com/images/DF/author/Verlyrus.png[/image]
Friday, September 8, 2023
Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update!
Hey there, heroes!

Hidden away in a secluded grove in South Falconreach stands a stone statue of the legendary Geopetal. It's said that she holds the secret to riches and power... but only if you're worthy!

[image]https://cms.battleon.com/DF/images/GEODEHUNTdn.png[/image]

Find the statue, and be teleported to a forgotten twisting cave of gems under Lymcrest... and uncover the secrets within!

Unearth Geodes to obtain gemstones used to create cosmetic weapons! Each element of weapon has its own new special ability when slotted as well!

You can find Geopetal's statue in South Falconreach. Just head along the hidden path North-East of the southern bridge!


PS: Don't forget to clear your cache!


Which leads us to the next big update this week: On-Attack specials have been reworked!

On-Attack specials now no longer activate at random when pressing the Attack button.

There is now a new button specifically for activating their abilities. It might be better to consider them as On-Demand specials now!

On-Demand Specials:
  • Only classes that could previously use On-Attack specials can use On-Demand specials.
  • Special activation cooldown is based off of the special's original activation rate. (For example a special with a 5% activation rate will have a 20 turn cooldown, while a special with a 34% activation rate will have a 3 turn cooldown.)
  • When you enter a battle, your currently active On-Demand special will have a cooldown equal to half of its full cooldown. (A special with a 20 turn cooldown will enter battle with a 10 turn cooldown.)
  • Swapping to a new special or deactivating an active special, outside of the first turn of combat, will put the new On-Demand special on either full cooldown, or retain a higher previous cooldown.
    • However, you can freely swap specials on the first turn of combat with no penalty!
  • Specials with both On-Hit and On-Demand effects will not have their On-Hit effects deactivated while on cooldown. So these are especially valuable!
As a result of these changes, there have been a number of adjustments to On-Demand specials.

I do want to state that these changes are to bring everything into line while providing room to explore new and better specials in the future. That said, if further adjustments need to be made down the line, they will be.
  • While in the Inn at the Edge of Time, damaging specials can now do a maximum of 300% base damage (not accounting for any applied effects).
  • On-Demand special abilities are now locked to the element of the activated weapon.
  • On-Demand special abilities are now affected by Boost.
And now for some specific changes:
  • Axe-Blade/Dagger/Staff of Aww:
    • Now requires the ability to hit to activate its heal/DoT.
    • Heal/DoT values have been halved from 10% max HP to 5% max HP.
  • Frozen Claymore:
    • Now requires the ability to hit to activate its -Ice effect.
    • -Ice effect reduced to -10 from -30.
    • +Fire resistance reduced to +10 from +25.
    • Damage reduced from 300% to 200% base damage.
  • Vanilla Ice Katana:
    • Now requires the ability to hit to activate its -Ice effect.
    • -Ice effect reduced to -10 from -30.
    • Added a +10 Fire res effect.
    • Damage reduced from 300% to 200% base damage.
  • Frozen Mace/Dagger/Wand:
    • Now requires the ability to hit to activate its -Ice effect.
    • -Ice effect reduced to -10 from -30.
    • +Fire resistance reduced to +10 from +25.
    • Damage reduced from 100% base damage.
    • Cooldown reduced to 5 turns.
  • Hive Ranger Halberd:
    • Now requires the ability to hit to activate its -Wind effect.
    • -Wind effect reduced to -10 from -30.
    • Damage reduced to total 180% base damage.
  • Blade of Destiny:
    • Ability damage reduced from 300% base damage to 200% base damage.
  • ChaosRager Weapons:
    • Cooldown reduced to 5 turns.
And then some more On-Hit specials adjustments!
    Patriot Fury:
    • -Bonus effect reduced to -30 from -35.
  • Doom Blade of Sorrows:
    • -Boost effect increased to -25 from -20.
  • Ultimate Destiny/Unreal Doom/Penultimate Destiny/Corrupt Doom weapons:
    • DoT effect increased to 40% base damage.
    • Activation chance increased to 10%
    • Does not stack with 4oJ weapon effects (or each other).
Other fixes and adjustments:
  • Keybinds:
    • T now activates your trinket instead of B.
    • R now activates On-Demand specials
    • KNOWN ISSUE: The Keybind chart in Options does not yet properly reflect these changes.
  • Trinket and Special buttons:
    • Yellow name text is no longer covered.
    • Yellow name text also now has proper dropshadow.
    • Other skill tooltips will now always appear over these buttons.
  • Erroneous log filters on certain characters have been removed.
  • Text for effects such as DoTs, HoTs and Stuns now use their effect description name if they have it, rather than their internal names.
And that... that's everything! Again, While your favorite specials may have been adusted unfavorably, we will be adjusting and reworking things as needed! And check out the new On-Demand specials available from Geode Hunting!


And that's all for this week!


Looks like I'll be plundering Light, Water, Wind, Fire, and Nature for this one. Warning to all prospectors:
spoiler:

While you can get the gemstones on demand, unless you're picky with weapon types that's where you won't have control over. Some rocks don't need to be hacked and slashed, and the boss is a simplified finale Siofra. Just be prepped for a long slog that you'll be able to collect for about two weapons worth of rocks. Pretty much Techno territory.



Flabagast -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/9/2023 5:51:24)

I'm a big fan of this idea. On-demand specials definitely have great strategy potential and will have nice compatibility to a lot of different builds, especially with the heavy RNG element being removed. It's nice that Geo gets to be what brings us to the caves too!



Laeon val Observis -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/9/2023 7:36:41)

In my quest to acquire as many of the new Cosmetics+Specials, also acquired Energy and almost acquired Ice out of curiosity and test of practicality. So far, in terms of effects:
  • Water-Decent substitute for BoA. A good testament in the vision of curbing the troublesome nature of on-hits.
  • Wind-Stat numbers-wise, offers more defense than the Light special, but with significant downtime. Likely a kit for those that fight like a Ninja.
  • Light-Occurs often, but only half as powerful as the blinds offered by EUD or a max Destiny Blaster.
  • Nature-Not likely to dethrone Awethur unless you're really desperate to land some hits with some extra setup.
  • Fire-Good old-fashioned beatdown meets current dev visions on diversifying Specials. A worthy filler move for BDL or any other STR-based classes.
  • Energy-Doesn't really hit as hard as Fire, which says something that my default is 130 STR/INT. A funky investment for an autocrit, unless you're getting frustrated with fights like Simu Uthuluc.

Perhaps I'll consider acquiring the new Ice special later on since I have its gemstone, but it's too fringe to use due to the design of bosses. Darkness, notwithstanding our Hero's history against that element, doesn't really offer anything new.



Dragonlord morzen -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/9/2023 10:42:47)

What weapons have both On-Hit effects and On-Demand abilities?



Vaalirus -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/9/2023 16:00:04)

Can't say I'm overjoyed that Hive Ranger's Halberd was included in the "nerf the elemental res debuff gang" given that it costed actual dragon coins but can't say I'm surprised either given that Ice scythe was rebuffed, after HRH had been originally released, so that players didn't feel like they were being compelled to purchase the in-game currency for an easier advantage, effectively making it feel like to pay to win for some. Same thing with the Frozen Mace/Dagger/Wand weapons. Leaving them alone would have brought that issue right on back. Still feels like 300 coins down the drain though.


That gripe aside, everything else about this update I'm absolutely loving. It's nice to see Geo's persona appear physically in the game and I'm liking Geode Hunting's dungeon crawling, guess Doug was right about there being more resources underneath Lymcrest. Furthermore, I wonder if this place reveals anything about the background of Siofra. The Crystaline Lurker is clearly a clone of Siofra's Dragonbane form and while that could just be another instance of a reused asset design I find it to be too bit of a coincidence that the guy that could shift between multiple elemental rocky forms is not somehow connected to this place. It might be plausible that he was just a human that got lost in these tunnels, as the objective card might suggest, and came out a changed person.

I'm also liking the gemstone cosmetic weapons specials though at a glance I'm mostly seeing Light, Water, Nature, Wind, and maybe Fire to be the most useful for me in a manner that stacks with other effects or equipment for now. I'm sure I'll find use for the other elemental gemstones though. Also good that they do a few hits of damage too even if they are confined to their original element heck that might even make them more useful if you play your cards right in certain fights. These are going to be fun to play around with.


Nice to see the Destiny/Doom weapons dish out better DoT danage too.



Laeon val Observis -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/9/2023 16:44:27)

@Morz ChaosRager and the Level 90 Blade of Destiny. The former is a perma-rare war spoil (Ravenloss War) designed for lethality against Bug enemies, whereas the latter is an Inn upgrade of Ash's Archknight reward that strengthens Light-based weapons.

Finally earned representatives for all geode weapons, most of them being daggers. Larimar (Ice) is definitely the least incentivizing (9-turn warm-up, 19-turn CD) in usage due to the major commitment neeeded to acquire a turn's worth of a standard issue stun. Onyx (Darkness) is a loopable Crit booster. Might see more use than Citrine (Energy).



Lee -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/9/2023 19:24:46)

Wow this is a large release. I'm a little sad to see Turn 1 NSoD (Necrotic Sword of Doom)/Aww strats being dead but if I'm being realistic, it's for the best. It's exhausting having to restart a fight because NSoD didn't proc and that's not even touching on strategies that require said procs later on into the fight!

The On Demand system is really interesting to see. I had my concerns about how it would work out due to the variety of factors but I feel like the team have done a pretty good job on it. I'm glad to see the reset of the -30 <Element> weapons being brought down in line with Light/Ice Scythe as well as seeing some On Demand specials (Vanilla Ice Katana, Frozen Mace etc) being adjusted - the +10 Fire resistance is a nice touch. Patriot Fury and Doom Blade being tweaked was unexpected but welcomed for me. It's nothing majorly breaking like going from -35 to -15 Bonus. I'm really liking how the On Demand system works, such as 'halving' your CD when you enter a fight with a On Demand special slotted. It's a decent balance between making it unwieldy to use (waiting 20 turns t1 to use Aww) and not game breaking (t1 guaranteed Aww proc lol). I can't wait to play around with these.

I'm very glad to see the Doom/Destiny DoTs getting some love. I was concerned that they were forgotten and would be till the end of time. In addition to that, we now have an alternative to the Fourth of July/Thawsprout Monthlies which is always nice to see.

The Geode Hunting quest is really nice. The mobs are pretty small - Escelense makes short work of them - the chill music is perfect for strolling through without much worry and the Infused Geode's are interesting. Both as chests, "mimics" akin to Zeclem's Keep and ordinary mobs who act like chests when defeated. The third point just makes finding the resources easier.

For those farming this quest, Wrath DragonLord handles arguably best. Slap on Escelense with some unresisted (Good/Evil/Fear - anything not on the main Elemental Wheel) and go to work. Use eHeart on the solos, eBreath on the trio with Nova to clean up, eWater -> Energy -> eHeart on the Geodes and eEnergy -> eHeart -> Wings on the boss. The Geodes rotation could be done better but that's what worked for me.

Now for the curious in regards to the On Demand Specials in Geode's Hunting, this is what the community in Discord found - it's going to take time for the forums to properly update with it.
quote:

Nature: 5 hits of 30% nature damage (150% total), inflicts target with "Peridot Nature" -25 MPM/BPD for 3 turns if a hit lands, 4 CD
Fire: 5 hits of 50% fire damage (250% total) with -400 Crit, 2 CD
Water: 5 hits of 20% water damage (100% total), player recovers 1% HP/MP per successful hit, 4 CD
Wind: 5 hits of 30% wind damage (150% total), buffs player with "Morganite Winds" +5x MPM and BPD (X = number of hits)
Ice: 5 hits of 30% ice damage (150% total), inflicts target with "Larimar Freeze" 1 turn stun, 19 CD
Energy: 5 hits of 25% energy damage (125% total) with +400 Crit, 2 CD
Light: 5 hits of 30% light damage (150% total), inflicts target with "Opal Light" -15 bonus for 4 turns if a hit lands, 4 CD
Dark: 5 hits of 20% dark damage (100% total), buffs player with "Onyx Darkness" +20 crit before any hit for 4 turns, 4 CD

If any numbers are wrong, I do apologize - I'll do my best to keep this as accurate as possible

For me, Darkness, Energy, Light and Wind sound the most useful from a glance but I can't wait to try these out. Great job on the release as always!



spirit of greed -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/10/2023 0:34:18)

Wow that's surprisingly a lot. I like this new special system so far and the new quest for farming is enjoyable although maybe a couple new enemies added could've made it less monotone.
I actually think more quests like this where you need to farm for items to exchange to stuff is a good idea, makes people use the game more frequently.

OUCH now something which i don't get nor agree is the nerfs. I don't think DF needed these nerfs especially this much when the enemies of the game gets more and more brutal these days (for example the big bad boss for book 1 SMUDD is a joke compared to the Doom amulet or the new Doom potato).

spoiler:

Glad finally Geopetal's statue got some role though it sucks it was just for teleporting and not as an NPC, i hope she gets alive one day
[:D]



Laeon val Observis -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/10/2023 1:55:02)

What's so hard to get? Weapon specials that don't proc 100% are high roller incarnate, simple as that. On-hits, especially those that weaken elemental resistances since it's a matter of a twisted desire for large damage numbers (a likely remnant when an old game's origins can easily be just a matter of the technical limitations at that time of Flash, thus narrowing the sense for strategy), were distorting boss design since they don't really interrupt a class's mechanics. On-Attack were sketchy to use and would require going YOLO with the last button on the skill menu a sane player would be prompted to press (unless of course they're a DmK, Archivist, any one of the classes that has Attack with MP regen, or they got hit by an enemy with "Powerword No. No Skills"). If this is a game with saving throws beyond Immobility and Shrink, probably acceptable behaviors, but no. What is needed is something controllable but not too distorting. Now that On-Attacks are converted to On Demand, they should be close to the rules governing Trinket skills. And of course, on-hits have to be recalibrated so as to not pop up and overshadow still their On Demand equivalents. Personally, I also do not foresee having to split the slotting between On-hits and On Demands. That would be more of aggravating the problem. Hard to picture? How about slotting one of these Geode Weapons and 4oJ DoT weapons in the same build.

quote:

Wind: 5 hits of 30% wind damage (150% total), buffs player with "Morganite Winds" +5+x MPM and BPD (X = number of hits)

Had to perform a conjunction of Dummy and Thyton to confirm the numbers. The MPM/BDP formula is incorrect. It should be +5x.

On the comparison between Pyrope and Citrine, the latter is barely able to narrow the gap between their damage output even with a 200 INT build, therefore the only scenario where the latter is preferred over the former would be against enemies that compel the player to strike them with a crit.



Roxas45 -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/10/2023 11:33:24)

I.... am not a fan of the mechanic.
But thats mainly for the fact that for my setup, there is now a grey box in the skill bar. XD


That said.
I did start using classes that had more hits per skill when these abilities started.
Let me see how the new system works out.
At some point, I was banking on the "on hit" proccing multiple times in one combo (Chaosweaver being a major thing) - and being fine with nothing else happening the rest of the fight.


I'm still hunting for Geo's statue though.



Laeon val Observis -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/10/2023 15:44:04)

Please follow the directions found int its pedia entry.



Lee -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/10/2023 19:50:53)

quote:

Had to perform a conjunction of Dummy and Thyton to confirm the numbers. The MPM/BDP formula is incorrect. It should be +5x.

That was a typo on my end that I missed, I've fixed that up now.

quote:

On the comparison between Pyrope and Citrine, the latter is barely able to narrow the gap between their damage output even with a 200 INT build, therefore the only scenario where the latter is preferred over the former would be against enemies that compel the player to strike them with a crit.

You're comparing Pyrope (250% with -400 Crit) with Citrine (125% with +400 Crit). Assuming you tested both with a 200 INT build, and a static damage range to avoid damage variance, I feel like the point is obvious.

Using the DF Calculator created by the community...

Citrine would deal exactly 225 damage with +400 Crit Vs the Target Dummy

Pyrope would deal exactly 263 damage with -400 Crit Vs the Target Dummy

In order to obtain a static damage range, I used the lvl 90 Soulforged Staff with 30 INT and no other gear. Using the DragonLord class (e.g no changes in Crit modifier).

For Pyrope, I did the same but with the lvl 90 Soulforged Sword with 30 STR and no other gear. Using the same class as mentioned above. Using a Soulforged Staff with 30 INT on Pyrope would give you 250 damage with -400 Crit

I only do this to clear things up as well as for those reading the forums as I do myself. I mean no disrespect whatsoever. In regards to uses in combat, I would presume the player would find the best use for these two On Demand specials when they're needing that extra damage and/or unable to use their skills (i.e +2 CD being added to every skill akin to Doomkitten) or simply needing that Crit/non-Crit hit for one reason or another.



Laeon val Observis -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/11/2023 17:08:23)

Rest assured, no malice. Though my data acquisition did include Ranger and CW, and used Pandora's Scythe instead. Both using maximum offensive stats (pure INT for the latter, STR/DEX for the former).

EDIT: Had to scrap the Ranger data. Slipped my thoughts that Ranger's Focus only affects its built-in skills.



TFS -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/12/2023 12:01:17)

I really appreciate the design intent of this release. A secondary Trinket slot is a much better use of the on-Attack mechanic, though I imagine the existence of Trinkets will be a notable design restriction in the future.

The big winner here is obviously Aww in spite of the nerf, but I think that's mostly because it's the only one that has an effect beyond 'do damage.' I also find it funny that an ancient evil has once again resurfaced to outclass FC and VIK, though FC having the same effect as a weapon literally made out of its own garbage (which is also weaker than the aforementioned evil, despite costing nearly 3x as many DCs) is a bit odd.
I don't think any of the new specials are a particularly big deal, beyond Water potentially having a niche and Wind potentially having an extreme niche in any future content.

I don't think any other specials will be at all useful except on the worst possible classes (or during the story, at which point you'll just NSoD everything anyway for at least twice as much damage as any other special in the game), as 99% of them are just 'do damage and nothing else' and they're now capped. And even then, a majority of these are either identical to or strictly worse than every other on-demand. If more on-demand specials were to be released in the future, I think it'd be neat if existing weapons had effects applied to them in place of making new weapons; in addition to saving assets and artists' time, it'd be an organic way to sprinkle the mechanic into the game (rather than localizing everything to DC shops) while preventing nearly every instance of the mechanic from being useless.

It's a bit weird that the Archivist class can't use on-demand specials, as this was removed specifically because on-Attack would disrupt the Orb sequence - which is no longer an issue. The Extremely Important Angler and SnuggleBear classes, as well as enTropy, also can't use on-demand specials despite having animations for a weapon proc (visible only through glitches). The SoulWeaver classes and ChronoZ had their on-attacks enabled a few years ago for this reason, so it seemed worth mentioning.
Specials on temp items also just don't work at all even once you manage to menu wrangle them, but it's weird and lame that one of the only two weapons this applies to doesn't have a obtainable permanent version to begin with tbh



Laeon val Observis -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/12/2023 17:13:33)

quote:

The SoulWeaver classes and ChronoZ had their on-attacks enabled a few years ago for this reason, so it seemed worth mentioning.

Please clarify the syntax of "for this reason" in this statement. If it is related to the implementation of ODSs, please prove a concrete statement on that. By concrete, not the "I've been meaning to do something about..." chain of thought that is rife with speculation. Otherwise, this argument can be amounted to the spread of false information.

I wouldn't say that Aww's poor man's life tap would be MVP here despite the premise of "doing more than just direct damage". Even if Inn bosses do encourage and foster thinking for the long game, the amount of commitment to proc a 3-turn HoT/DoT effect at its current state (10-turn start of battle warm-up, 20-turn CD) means it can still be overshadowed by standard-issue on-hits (Frostval healing weapons, BoA, Twilly's Staff), not to mention the recently added Sapphirine weapons (can only be suppressed by MPM When shields and East Wind, but otherwise provides up to 5% HP/MP regen every 4 turns). You might get away without having to use crutches and (extra) pots on the first Aww proc, but more likely than not that it'll be dicey to achieve the same feat on the subsequent ones (but if this helps quell the egotistical mentality of no extra pots and crutches, then go ahead). So in this scenario, it's a wait and see if the said ODS gets any further revision.

In that same thought, I wouldn't try to put up the Hamsters in the conversation. You've pretty much opened them up to the possibility of revision akin to your precious Gloom Glaive despite Void being one of the most fringe elements in our arsenal. Especially so when the DC rip-offs of FC got that treatment.



Sumbrosus -> RE: Friday, September 8th Design Notes: Book 3: Geode Hunting & Specials Update! (9/16/2023 6:44:00)

I'm a bit late responding, but I just wanted to say that the underground labyrinth looks gorgeous. The crystal formations, the colour shifts... I could've happily wandered around down there for a long time, just looking around, if I didn't have to fight monsters in every chamber. :D
Seriously, my compliments go out to the team.



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