Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (Full Version)

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Sapphire -> Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (11/27/2023 17:23:30)

Hopefully there can be some participation with this, but was discussing recently with some Homies and we were trying to come up with some ideas for a BM Lean, and what all it'd need to entail.

I said maybe something like reducing player damage by X%, which would include bows, but not the old school weapon special, to increase pet and guest damage by the same % to get back to the same overall. Keep defense at 1x (nuetral)

But they had some good ideas. Notably, maybe concentrate the lean and power shift on only the guest, and could include both a damage increase and an upkeep discount when in BeastMaster Lean Armors. So maybe you get reduced player damage for a guest-only "boost".

But the purpose here ultimately is for players to provide some ideas that make sense, are balanced, and are fun.

Go!



Korriban Gaming -> RE: Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (11/27/2023 22:19:12)

I am in support of these ideas, I think they are interesting since we have a spellcaster lean too.

The guest only boost is a good idea since we already have Optico for pets unless they implement guest lucky strikes in the stat revamp.

On the other hand, I feel like as a beastmaster we should also get boosts to pets as well though of course, that would mean having to split the power between the pet and the guest.

My preference would highly depend on whether we get guest lucky strikes in the coming stat revamp.



dizzle -> RE: Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (11/27/2023 23:05:57)

My thoughts on only giving guests the bonuses were because after the revamp pets will br all but universal. Any build *most likely* will be able to use pets effectively as long they’ve invested in CHA. You won’t really need to have a beast master play style to use them I guess. On top of this pets are already in an interesting spot and I don’t think they need any more attention as far as boosts go tbh. So in a dedicated beast master lean armor you would sacrifice weapon damage in order to give a damage boost to guests and a reduction in upkeep cost. I used really simple numbers as an example just to make it easy to follow, they’re not set in stone. Player attack is worth 100% melee, guests worth 60% melee and pets 40%. If the player attacks deal x.7 damage you’re basically sacrificing 30% melee. This 30% could get split into a +25% damage boost to guests and -15% melee (~59sp) reduction in upkeep cost. This will also help with the adjustment of upkeep costs changing with the revamp. The numbers don’t really matter but I think the idea is reasonable



Sapphire -> RE: Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (11/28/2023 10:05:23)

^ Any damage reduction would need to include 100 procs. However, I do wonder if it could not include the weapon special. I just want there to be case usages to make that style of weapon preferable.


Anyway, aside from people I figured would post, no other takers?



legendd -> RE: Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (11/28/2023 10:41:13)

+1 to OP and dizzle because they make sense.

In terms of guest LS, happy to see when that get implemented but I am sure someone will deduce an even larger damage reduction either on the player or the pet to make this happen.



Grace Xisthrith -> RE: Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (11/28/2023 16:11:47)

I remember chatting about this idea a few times in the past, this seems the most fleshed out, and I like the idea of making a beastmaster specific lean. That said, I'd want to make sure it isn't raw powercreep, and doesn't make FD useless

-That being said, I think it should probably come with downsides compared to traditional FD. Making it actually deal .8 weapon damage including bows would be a start, (the tech for that might exist via the paladin Inspiration ability?)
-Would the armor stay at neutral lean defensively, or would it follow spellcaster's route and take in 1.25x damage, deal 1x weapon damage, and have a 1.25x multiplier of some kind for guests or pets? (I'm personally a fan of the dumping it all into guest cost reduction idea, but that's just me). I think this would make it distinct from FD, since it would not be you know, defensive. Whether it needs to be distinct from FD may be a different discussion.
-Overall, I'd say that giving the armor 1.25x incoming damage instead of 1.0x would probably make it a separate choice from FD, with realistic tradeoffs that would still be desirable, but it wouldn't just be FD lean 2.0.



Sapphire -> RE: Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (12/9/2023 4:44:21)

Alright, so here's an idea for tnis proposal:

1. Defense stays Nuetral (1x)
This will allow for further refinement in item design, where they can push damage to 1.25x to pay for some effect.

2. Reduce all player damage, including 100 procs down by -30%, so offense is .7x

3. The Lean then focuses solely on boosting the guest, since the guest is the one thing that a BM is using that most others are not. So no pet boost.

4. Since player+guest+pet normally is 200% melee total, if we're dropping attack offense to 70% melee and we're leaving 40% melee pet value alone, we lack 90% melee. This means the boost to guests will be +50%, boosting it from 60% to 90%.

So the result is offense is .7 for guest boost of +50%.

However,

5. If possible, when a guest is on damage mode, it's +50% damage. When a guest is on status mode, it's +50% to the status as if it were 90% melee value. So since status mode is usually 30% for statuses, here we will have 45% melee.

To me this would, if even possible , would make for a solid idea for Beastmaster Lean.



MarthaFrazier -> RE: Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (12/11/2023 7:07:33)

I like your idea.



battlesiege15 -> RE: Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (12/11/2023 21:27:07)

I would be down for SP cost reduction for guests. Right now, they are not too bad but SP is very limited and using a guest + a misc can be lot.

Also, I don't see why a beastmaster lean shouldn't include pets too. You can use spellcaster armors for other things like SPells (I think). It wouldn't really benefit a non-BM to use guests for damage like a beast master would.



Sapphire -> RE: Proposal/Discussion of a New Beastmaster Lean (12/11/2023 22:46:04)

Not against including pets, but I think something can be said for who is intended to use an item. We have armors with ranged and melee locks. We have armors that boost pet/guest damage. There's a specific build in mind. Spellcaster lean can be used for non mages, sure, but that's not their intent. I think that matters.

The lean focusing on guests will have some advantages, though. Since it's a lean change, there's no cost associated with it. You could still design a BM lean armor that focuses on +Guest damage but that armor also pay a cost to boost pet damage. This is also why I think we leave incoming damage at 1x (nuetral) They could still make an armor take 1.25x as a cost to do something else, like add pet hypercrit or guest hypercrit (when they add this ;-o )



Anyway, glad to see some ideas or thoughts finally. I think there are a lot of players who would love to see a BM lean of some kind to add to gameplay .




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